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Sat Dec 31, 2011, 07:35 PM

What Americans Keep Ignoring About Finland's School Success

The Scandinavian country is an education superpower because it values equality more than excellence.

*note: Finland is not Scandinavian, but it is Nordic - sd

Everyone agrees the United States needs to improve its education system dramatically, but how? One of the hottest trends in education reform lately is looking at the stunning success of the West's reigning education superpower, Finland. Trouble is, when it comes to the lessons that Finnish schools have to offer, most of the discussion seems to be missing the point.

The small Nordic country of Finland used to be known -- if it was known for anything at all -- as the home of Nokia, the mobile phone giant. But lately Finland has been attracting attention on global surveys of quality of life -- Newsweek ranked it number one last year -- and Finland's national education system has been receiving particular praise, because in recent years Finnish students have been turning in some of the highest test scores in the world.

Finland's schools owe their newfound fame primarily to one study: the PISA survey, conducted every three years by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). The survey compares 15-year-olds in different countries in reading, math, and science. Finland has ranked at or near the top in all three competencies on every survey since 2000, neck and neck with superachievers such as South Korea and Singapore. In the most recent survey in 2009 Finland slipped slightly, with students in Shanghai, China, taking the best scores, but the Finns are still near the very top. Throughout the same period, the PISA performance of the United States has been middling, at best.

Compared with the stereotype of the East Asian model -- long hours of exhaustive cramming and rote memorization -- Finland's success is especially intriguing because Finnish schools assign less homework and engage children in more creative play. All this has led to a continuous stream of foreign delegations making the pilgrimage to Finland to visit schools and talk with the nation's education experts, and constant coverage in the worldwide media marveling at the Finnish miracle.


More here: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/

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Arrow 35 replies Author Time Post
Reply What Americans Keep Ignoring About Finland's School Success (Original post)
stevedeshazer Dec 2011 OP
elleng Dec 2011 #1
MannyGoldstein Dec 2011 #2
stevedeshazer Dec 2011 #5
MannyGoldstein Jan 2012 #16
stevedeshazer Jan 2012 #17
chervilant Jan 2012 #20
chervilant Jan 2012 #21
Gormy Cuss Jan 2012 #23
MannyGoldstein Jan 2012 #25
chervilant Jan 2012 #32
CTyankee Jan 2012 #34
WHEN CRABS ROAR Jan 2012 #26
stevedeshazer Jan 2012 #27
izquierdista Dec 2011 #3
tama Jan 2012 #12
izquierdista Jan 2012 #15
cheri010353 Dec 2011 #4
maggiesfarmer Dec 2011 #6
Aristus Dec 2011 #7
stevedeshazer Jan 2012 #18
AdHocSolver Jan 2012 #8
chervilant Jan 2012 #22
AdHocSolver Jan 2012 #29
Populist_Prole Jan 2012 #35
DirkGently Jan 2012 #9
LuvNewcastle Jan 2012 #10
tama Jan 2012 #13
AdHocSolver Jan 2012 #31
Scottybeamer70 Jan 2012 #11
WHEN CRABS ROAR Jan 2012 #24
NeoGreen Jan 2012 #14
stevedeshazer Jan 2012 #19
marmar Jan 2012 #28
AdHocSolver Jan 2012 #30
stevedeshazer Jan 2012 #33

Response to stevedeshazer (Original post)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 07:39 PM

1. Posted about this a few weeks ago.

TOO BAD we refuse to learn these lessons.

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Response to stevedeshazer (Original post)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 07:40 PM

2. Massachusetts public schools produce better results than Finland

 

As measured by international tests of students.

So why is everyone allergic to studying what actually works well, today, in thw US?

Blows my mind.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 07:56 PM

5. I have no doubt that Massachusetts has excellent education top to bottom.

Most of the other states don't, including mine.

I like the Finnish approach. Every kid has an equal chance.

What is it that works in Massachusetts? Each state does things differently. Education quality and child poverty seem closely tied here in Oregon. Both are getting worse. Oregon ranks high in child poverty in the nation.

BTW, Happy New Year.

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Response to stevedeshazer (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 12:43 PM

16. I don't know for sure, but here are some thoughts

 

First off, to elaborate on my post from yesterday (I was on a smart phone and I hate typing on it...): on the NAEP "nation's report card" math and english tests, given nationwide to random groups of 4th and 8th graders every two years, Massachusetts has scored #1 in the US on all four nationwide tests, every year the tests were given except for once when we were number 2 in one test.

In the 2007 TIMSS test, given internationally to compare student knowledge across countries, Massachusetts and Minnesota chose to be broken out as separate countries to see how they compared to the rest of the world. the result:

TIMSS Results Place Massachusetts Among World Leaders in Math and Science

"TIMSS is an international math and science assessment administered every four years to a sampling of 4th and 8th grade students in participating nations around the world. The test was administered in April and May 2007 to 3,600 students attending 95 randomly selected schools in Massachusetts.

In science, Massachusetts 4th graders received a scaled score of 571, surpassed only by Singapore, which scored 587; in math the state's fourth graders averaged 572, behind Hong Kong SAR (607) and Singapore (599) and tying for third with Chinese Taipei (576) and Japan (568).

Eighth graders scored 556 in science, tying with Singapore (567), Chinese Taipei (561), Japan (554) and the Republic of Korea (553); in math, the state's eighth graders scored 547, ranking sixth behind Chinese Taipei (598), Republic of Korea (597), Singapore (593), Hong Kong SAR (572), and Japan (570)."


And, by the way - Massachusetts state tax rates are actually in the bottom half of the US! We get great results and we don't pay a lot for it.

As to why: I don't think it's been studied, but I have a couple of guesses. The obvious is that Mass was (I think) the first state to set up standards for what topics should be taught to children and when it should be taught (the Massachusetts Curriculum Frameworks), along with associated testing to demonstrate that it's been taught (the Massachusetts Comprehensive Assessment System or MCAS).

Second, people in Massachusetts are, by-and-large, pretty nice to each other and common sense seems to rule the day as compared to other states. For example, it was the first state to establish public education, to end slavery and recognize equal rights for black folks, to legalize trade unions, to permit gay marriage, and so fort. That's not a specific reason for our students doing so well, but I believe that the general pervasiveness of good will leads to generally good decision making.

What blows my mind is that nobody seems to think to study Massachusetts' success and export it to other states. We implement untested, unproven programs like the Obama-Duncan ones, and look to other countries - but we have a raging success story right here in the US, why on Earth do we not leverage it?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #16)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 01:13 PM

17. Great points.

All 50 states are laboratories of education. Your state is a great example.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #16)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 02:22 PM

20. First,

Our crumbling, co-opted system of public education has--for decades now--convinced two-thirds to three-quarters of us that we have 'average' or 'below average' intellects. This is a load of El Toro Poo Poo, as is demonstrated by contemporary research on timed IQ tests. When the 'timed' aspect of an IQ test is eliminated, most research subjects score 'near genius' on the test.

I contend that humans learn in different ways and at different paces. The most powerful evidence I have for my contention is my work with my students. When I remind them that we all have fully functioning brains, FULLY capable of learning whatever we WANT to learn, profound things ensue.

First, I have to help my students overcome the psychic wound inflicted--I believe--by years of poisonous pedagogy, wherein we are relentlessly told that most of us have average or below average intellects (hmm...I wonder whose is THAT agenda?). I help my students take the hierarchy out of intelligence, so that they may 'unlearn' several myths about their intellects.

By convincing the majority of us that we are mental midgets, the PTB remain secure in their economic hegemony. (Plus, this falsehood benefits the uber wealthy further as the basic underpinning of our species' divisive anti-intellectualism.)

Abraham Maslow contended that we humans have an intrinsic need to create or achieve. *WHAT* we create or *WHAT* we achieve is as varied as there are humans on this planet. I would add that we humans fervently desire to be recognized or esteemed for what we create or achieve (which is a likely explanation for our species' preoccupation with personal *power* as measured by *wealth*).

Indeed, our species *thrives* on esteem and recognition. If we hope to help our fellow humans recognize the stultifying and objectifying Bernaysian mindset cultivated by the corporatists bent on securing their hegemony at our expense, we must extend to our fellow humans the esteem and recognition that is the raison d'etre of our species.

(BTW, RTTT is a pathetic bastardization of NCLB. The current administration remains complicit in vilifying veteran teachers and attacking teachers' unions--apparently privatization and future profitability are the 'raison d'etre' of the Corporate Meglomaniacs who've usurped our media, our politics, and our global economy.)

(Part Deux to come...)

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #16)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 02:29 PM

21. Second,

In the past fifty years, our system of public education has been transformed into a corporate tool, intended to 'graduate' factory fodder or service industry drones. Sadly, Mr. Obama seems bent on continuing this initiative.

An honest assessment of public education in this United States mandates that we acknowledge that--for at least the last five decades--we've been trained AWAY from critical thinking skills and toward rote memorization, which means we can perform like trained monkeys on ridiculously expensive and pedantic standardized tests. We must understand that almost half of our adult population is functionally illiterate--able to read these words, mayhap, but incapable of sharing the gist of what's read. And, we must accept that Bernays' propaganda techniques have helped produce a fearful, malleable, gullible, and PITIFUL citizenry. Any ONE of these facts ALONE compels us to rescue our co-opted and crumbling system of public education, but let's consider these key issues:

By the time we members of the vast hoi polloi get our high school diplomas, more than three-quarters of us are convinced that we have 'average or below average' intellects. This is an enormous crock of El Toro Poo Poo! Each and every one of us has a fully functioning, amazing brain. Contemporary research on timed IQ tests reveals that most of us would score 'near genius' on these tests--if the time element of the test is removed. I contend that each of us learns in our OWN way, at our OWN pace. If we were to revamp our system of public education to honor and celebrate this fact, profound things would ensue.

As important as dispelling the myth of predominantly 'average' intellects is addressing the fact that almost half (42%) of all children in the United States live in low-income households, where their parent(s) earn just enough to cover basic expenses (current data from NCCP). Personally, I think this under-represents the number of children who live in households defined as ‘low-income,’ given that less than one thousand people in the US own and control better than 95% of our nation’s wealth. Nevertheless, ‘low-income household’ is synonymous with precarious employment, frequent moves, poor nutrition, and a multitude of other threats to our children’s well-being, not to mention their ability to LEARN.

In short, children of low-income households must contend with a host of social, behavioral and psychological issues, all of which impede a child’s ability to learn. And, for children in poverty level households (about 21%), mere survival trumps education EVERY TIME. These seldom mentioned facts are clearly antithetical to this administration's current assault on teachers and unions, so we teachers/activists are shouted down or diminished whenever we bring up poverty and its measurable impact on our children AND on public education.

Here's another important issue that is seldom mentioned: talk to ANY teacher across the nation, and you'll hear horror stories about the JUNK we're feeding our children. This issue goes FAR beyond the junk food students get in their school cafeterias. We are *ALL* feeding our children fish laced with mercury, fruits and vegetables that contain measurably less natural nutrients, and MASSIVE amounts of sugar--in virtually every processed food they eat.

The percentage of children who struggle with overweight issues has more than doubled since the 70s. Almost a third of our children are overweight! Along with the self-esteem issues of excess weight, high blood pressure, diabetes and elevated cholesterol levels are common challenges for overweight children.

Let's review once more those controversial, mandated standardized tests (key components of NCLB, now RTTT): research repeatedly demonstrates that standardized tests do not correlate with fundamental knowledge of core subjects. Yet, federal funding is tied to standardized assessments, and schools persist in subjecting all students to expensive standardized tests. Do these tests measure academic achievement?

The most current comparative assessment of the knowledge and skills of 15-year-olds in 70 countries around the world (the OECD PISA report) ranked the United States 14th out of 34 OECD countries for reading skills, 17th for science, and a below-average 25th for mathematics. The United States is just NINE away from the bottom in math! Clearly, our much vaunted standardized tests are NOT accurate measures of our children's academic skills.

To those of us who are genuinely concerned about rescuing and improving our system of public education, teacher bashing has become just another way to obfuscate the real challenges we face in providing our young people with opportunities to develop their critical thinking skills and prepare to compete in a now disintegrating global economy.

I think the most important first step in education reform is to tell our children the TRUTH, and to facilitate their participation in developing an approach to public education suited for today's socio-political environment.

I find it ironic, yet predictable, that the 'reformers du jour' (led by Arne Duncan, Bill Gates, Michelle Rhee, and their ilk) are pushing another unoriginal reform agenda that fails to engage our children in essential discussions about THEIR futures, and what THEY feel would insure them an exceptional education. Yet again, we're throwing 'reforms' at our children, instead of encouraging our children to participate in a nationwide initiative to move public education into the 21st century.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #16)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 04:39 PM

23. I'm guessing here, but one possible factor is the high degree of education among adults in MA.

Massachusetts is one of the top five states in terms of adults with postsecondary education and second only to DC in terms of young adults in that category, with a whopping 53% of adults aged 25-34 with college degrees vs. the national average of 38% (see: Chronicle of Higher Ed. ) There's a fair amount of literature correlating academic success with the education level of the students' parents.

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Response to Gormy Cuss (Reply #23)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 08:07 PM

25. I agree that it's probably a factor

 

It would be great for someone to study this so we can see what factors are most important. But nobody of importance seems to be interested in MA's success, it doesn't fit into their agendas.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #25)

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 01:10 AM

32. Actually,

A seminal study of public education in the US (The Coleman Report, 1966) substantiated that the strongest predictors of academic achievement are a student's family and peers. Yet, instead of motivating educators to explore ways to capitalize on these important predictors, this study was "widely interpreted as saying that schools {do} not matter." Our system of public education--and the teachers who carry the responsibility of EDUCATING our children--have gotten short shrift ever since.

BTW, a plethora of studies from the 60s to the present have shown a strong correlation between parental involvement and student success. And I can count on one finger the number of parents who visited my classroom to discuss their child's academic success.

IMHO, some of us "survive" our system of public education, and our critical thinking skills continue to stand us in good stead. Perhaps we become the parents who encourage our children to value critical thinking, and a good education.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #16)

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 10:13 AM

34. My guess is that "reformers" of public schools are not really about reform.

They are "small government" types and, I suspect, religious fundies, who want nothing to do with improving public education. Their agenda is also blatantly anti-union. They want more public money to come to private schools and they want to destroy teachers unions.

they will never in a million years come out and say that MA has a great public school system. You are just too damn liberal...

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Response to stevedeshazer (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 08:17 PM

26. But here in Port Orford, OR, in a small town of 1200 and with a lot of poverty and unemployment.

The elementary and high school score tops in the state and country.
Could it be the teachers?
Could it be the community support?
Could it be the lack of gangs and violence?

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Response to WHEN CRABS ROAR (Reply #26)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 10:00 PM

27. All of that.

Port Orford is isolated.

Community support in small towns means a lot. I had a small town Oregon education, too. And we had poverty and unemployment, also.

The teachers meant a lot in my small Oregon town.

Which is more or less my point.

Gangs and violence probably aren't prevalent in Port Orford, right?

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Response to stevedeshazer (Original post)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 07:54 PM

3. But how?

 

America has Bill Gates and Finland has Linus Torvalds.

What I would suggest is to give all of Gates' money to Torvalds for starters.

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Response to izquierdista (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 10:00 AM

12. Money

 

Are you forgetting that Linux (etc. Left-Copy software) was not made for money, but for fun and common benefit in gift economy. Where as M$ is made for money - and money alone. I doubt Linus w ould be interested in getting Gates' money. He would prefer Microsoft making their products open source and cooperating with free programmers instead of fighting against freedom.

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Response to tama (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 10:23 AM

15. That's exactly why he should have it

 

Linus would do the right thing with it, not ruin the US educational system.

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Response to stevedeshazer (Original post)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 07:55 PM

4. But...but...but

That kind of educational system doesn't train kids to be good little workbots who are happy to do whatever is required of them without question and have no curiosity beyond who will win this season's American Idol or Super bowl. Who would never question what is fed to them by the powers that be and their media conglomerates. Who accept any lie or manipulation of the truth, no matter how outrageous it sounds, without the slightest bit of research or doubt. And what is this Equity they speak of? What kind of Commie idea is that? How would the superior class be distinguished from the "underlings" if there were no private schools to weed out the chaff? We can't allow the commoners to have the same opportunities as the wealthy. That's just Un-American. That would never work here.

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Response to stevedeshazer (Original post)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 07:57 PM

6. interesting, thanks. my takes.

1. all schools are public, pre-k through PHD.

2. "...all teachers and administrators are given prestige, decent pay, and a lot of responsibility. A master's degree is required to enter the profession, and teacher training programs are among the most selective professional schools in the country. If a teacher is bad, it is the principal's responsibility to notice and deal with it."

this runs contrary to the low pay, low bars of entry to teaching, coupled with tenure system in effect at American public schools. these two coupled together make sure that #1 top talent is incentivized into teaching and not lured into private industry.

Equality in education is a huge step toward addressing the root issues of class in equality in our country. tons of stuff in that article and worthy of re-read.

good stuff, thanks

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Response to stevedeshazer (Original post)

Sat Dec 31, 2011, 09:27 PM

7. Finland's education system and its successes were the subject of a stunning,

riveting article in Smithsonian magazine a few months back. I was agog at the programs in their system that we could easily and inexpensively adopt into our own. But there is so much resistance is this country, usually from right-wingers, to adopting any program, system, or model from "socialist" Europe. A "socialist" Finland is going to end up beating the pants off us economically, because they will have well-educated entrepreneurs, business leaders, and workers.

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Response to Aristus (Reply #7)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 01:17 PM

18. The 'S' word.

Yep. Frank Luntz and crew have made it completely toxic.

'Tis a shame. Socialism is unjustly maligned in the US.

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Response to stevedeshazer (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 12:48 AM

8. Education in the US, like everything else, is based on an assembly line factory model.

Education in the US is thought of as a mass-production enterprise. The student is a mold into which the teacher pours "knowledge".

In reality, real education relies on individual effort of the learner. In other words, the student has to be motivated to learn.

Real learning takes place predominantly during two activities: Play and problem solving.

The best relationship between teacher and student is that of mentor and apprentice.

A majority of school environments in the US are antithetical to a good learning/teaching environment.

No Child Left Behind and its ilk, as well as merit pay schemes, create an underlying hostile environment between teachers and students. The students are under severe pressures to perform in a badly designed environment in which teachers have little control and are judged on the basis of what can only be described as idiotic standards.

In the US, The Powers That Be are afraid of providing real education for the masses, since they have no incentive or intention to bring well-paying high tech jobs back to the US any time soon, if ever.

If there are no well-paying high tech jobs for Americans, The Powers That Be can then point to the "fact" that they can't find any technical people "because" US education is so poor.

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Response to AdHocSolver (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 02:54 PM

22. hmm...

I think you might appreciate this:

&list=FLsqKe8cEJ61cm2kCGiQJ3bQ&index=31&feature=plpp_video

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Response to chervilant (Reply #22)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 11:52 PM

29. Very informative. Thank you.

Another way of looking at LEARNING is that it is a BY-PRODUCT of problem solving and play.

This is why the younger children do better than older, schooled children do in imaginative activities that require thinking outside of the box.

Teaching should involve setting up an environment for learning.

What passes for education in the U.S. is more correctly labeled as indoctrination into an authoritarian culture. The effective goal is to dumb down the student into a subservient role based on Pavlov's experiment in training dogs to salivate at the sound of a bell.

In the real world, "progress" comes with innovation, not repeating the same "mistakes". However, innovation transfers power from those who want to manufacture and sell buggy whips (or continue to maintain an economic system based on a massive and wasteful exploitation of fossil fuels in spite of the huge damage to the environment) to those who want to replace fossil fuels with renewable energy.

So The Powers That Be do everything possible to keep the public dependent on fossil fuels while doing everything they can to thwart the move to renewable energy and conservation.

You might be interested in Bruce E. Levine's books, particularly Commonsense Rebellion: Taking Back Your Life from Drugs, Shrinks, Corporations, and a World Gone Crazy. He is a clinical psychologist who is highly critical of the massive drugging of children.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #22)

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 04:12 PM

35. I like those presentations. This one should be a must watch by....

Anybody open-minded enough to accept what is being said. That would exclude cons/baggers.

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Response to stevedeshazer (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 04:23 AM

9. They hire highly qualified teachers, pay them well, & let them teach. Crazy.

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Response to stevedeshazer (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 05:01 AM

10. Competition vs. Cooperation

Americans put too much emphasis on competition. Constant competition is thought to encourage excellence and is believed to help achieve the most desired result. I think that competition can too easily become adversarial and causes too much stress. If humans are ever going to pull themselves out of the rut we're stuck in, with all the wars and famines and epidemics we've faced, we're going to have to get to a point where we can share knowledge and resources. There are always those who profit from human division, however, so bringing society into a new era of trust is probably the hardest task we've ever faced as a species, but the rewards would be tremendous.

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Response to LuvNewcastle (Reply #10)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 10:08 AM

13. +1

 

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Response to LuvNewcastle (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 12:28 AM

31. Competition is for students and workers. Corporate executives collude.

American workers have to "compete" with low-wage workers from "third world" countries.

American students have to "compete" with other students for limited education funding.

Meanwhile, corporations merge and buy each other out to create horizontal and vertical integration to exploit people and resources.

This is nothing more than a divide-and-conquer strategy.

Meanwhile Republican politicians work in lockstep to thwart the will of the majority.

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Response to stevedeshazer (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 09:06 AM

11. Whenever this country stops

putting all the emphasis on sports, then we might make some progress.
The only thing that seems to matter in schools in this country is which sports program
can bring in the most money. To heck with reading or writing...........throw that ball....
I've watched it all my life............it only gets worse each year.

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Response to Scottybeamer70 (Reply #11)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 07:33 PM

24. I agree, he said, screaming into the wilderness.

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Response to stevedeshazer (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 10:19 AM

14. General Question...

Do they have private schools in Finland? Religious or otherwise.

It is my hypothesis that one of the main reasons our educational system in the US is "attacked” and/or systematically degraded by conservatives, is because they don't want their kids exposed to anything that might give them tools to challenge their religious worldview(s). Thus they support their "private schools" at the expense of a good public education.

No proper review of Evolutionary Theory or the tools to constructively criticize society or political ideologies (especially our own) which systematically degrades public knowledge and curiosity.

Plus, add in a healthy dose of insipient racism along with a fundamental misunderstanding of economic verses political systems (by conflating elements of democracy, capitalism, socialism, communism, fascism, totalitarianism and other “isms” as interchangeable) it is a wonder our kids do as well as they do.

And yes, WAY too much emphasis on sports.

I recently heard an NPR report on school funding in Texas where one parent said he would get a 2nd job to keep the Football program but was willing to cut spending on academics.

Pathetic.

(edited to add sports comment and correct spelling)

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Response to NeoGreen (Reply #14)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 01:23 PM

19. There are no 'private' schools in Finland.

From the article:

"Only a small number of independent schools exist in Finland, and even they are all publicly financed. None is allowed to charge tuition fees. There are no private universities, either. This means that practically every person in Finland attends public school, whether for pre-K or a Ph.D."

So yeah. And I agree with your views on why US conservatives/regressives want to tamp down interest in science and such, in order to protect their control by promoting their bizarre version of religion.

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Response to stevedeshazer (Original post)

Sun Jan 1, 2012, 10:23 PM

28. 'engage children in more creative play'


The corporate overlords can't have that......It won't produce the non-questioning slaves they need to work for them.



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Response to stevedeshazer (Original post)

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 12:14 AM

30. This thread should be required reading for every education "reformer".

After reading it, these education "reformers" should be given a timed test on how much they learned from reading it, and if they failed this test, they should be flunked out of the education field, and sent to "reform" school.

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Response to AdHocSolver (Reply #30)

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 02:24 AM

33. +1

Time starts right now.

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