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Thu Jun 12, 2014, 07:56 AM

We anti-war protesters were right: the Iraq invasion has led to bloody chaos

Article that sums up my own views of the situation in Iraq very succinctly.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/12/anti-war-protesters-iraq-invasion-bloody-chaos

I have encountered no sense of vindication, no "I told you so", among veterans of the anti-war protest of 15 February 2003 in response to the events in Iraq. Despair, yes, but above all else, bitterness that we were unable to stop one of the greatest calamities of modern times, that warnings which were dismissed as hyperbole now look like understatements, that countless lives (literally no one counts them) have been lost, and will continue to be so for many years to come.

The catastrophic results of the Iraq invasion are often portrayed as having been impossible to predict, and only inevitable with the benefit of hindsight. If only to prevent future calamities from happening, this is a myth that needs to be dispelled. The very fact that the demonstration on that chilly February day in 2003 was the biggest Britain had ever seen, is testament to the fact that disaster seemed inevitable to so many people.

In a way, opponents of the war were wrong. We were wrong because however disastrous we thought the consequences of the Iraq war, the reality has been worse. The US massacres in Fallujah in the immediate aftermath of the war, which helped radicalise the Sunni population, culminating in an assault on the city with white phosphorus. The beheadings, the kidnappings and hostage videos, the car bombs, the IEDs, the Sunni and Shia insurgencies, the torture declared by the UN in 2006 to be worse than that under Saddam Hussein, the bodies with their hands and feet bound and dumped in rivers, the escalating sectarian slaughter, the millions of displaced civilians, and the hundreds of thousands who died: it has been one never-ending blur of horror since 2003.

The invasion was justified as an indispensable part of the struggle against al-Qaida. Well, to be fair, large swaths of Iraq have not been handed over to al-Qaida: they are now run by Isis, a group purged from al-Qaida for being too extreme. Iraq and Syria are trapped in a bloody feedback loop: the growth of Isis in Iraq helped corrupt the Syrian rebellion, and now the Syrian insurgency has fuelled the breakdown of Iraq, too. Those who believe that the west should have armed Syria's rebels should consider the fact that Isis reportedly raided an arms depot in Syria which was stocked with CIA help. Support from western-backed dictatorships in Saudi Arabia and Qatar has fuelled the Syrian extremists now spilling over into Iraq.

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Reply We anti-war protesters were right: the Iraq invasion has led to bloody chaos (Original post)
T_i_B Jun 2014 OP
bahrbearian Jun 2014 #1
xocet Jun 2014 #31
cprise Jun 2014 #38
xocet Jun 2014 #41
jimlup Jun 2014 #2
pocoloco Jun 2014 #4
Warpy Jun 2014 #32
calimary Jun 2014 #34
jimlup Jun 2014 #37
RoccoR5955 Jun 2014 #48
barbtries Jun 2014 #50
ballyhoo Jun 2014 #3
yellowwoodII Jun 2014 #5
abelenkpe Jun 2014 #10
L0oniX Jun 2014 #15
CrispyQ Jun 2014 #40
arcane1 Jun 2014 #43
CrispyQ Jun 2014 #45
Martin Eden Jun 2014 #28
TRoN33 Jun 2014 #6
sinkingfeeling Jun 2014 #7
Leme Jun 2014 #8
Diclotican Jun 2014 #11
Leme Jun 2014 #20
Diclotican Jun 2014 #25
Leme Jun 2014 #22
Diclotican Jun 2014 #29
Leme Jun 2014 #33
raccoon Jun 2014 #49
T_i_B Jun 2014 #51
Diclotican Jun 2014 #9
valerief Jun 2014 #12
Jerry442 Jun 2014 #13
The Wizard Jun 2014 #14
Aristus Jun 2014 #16
RoccoR5955 Jun 2014 #17
calimary Jun 2014 #35
RoccoR5955 Jun 2014 #47
raouldukelives Jun 2014 #18
DrBulldog Jun 2014 #19
Paka Jun 2014 #21
liberal N proud Jun 2014 #23
Igel Jun 2014 #24
lunatica Jun 2014 #26
lunatica Jun 2014 #27
underthematrix Jun 2014 #30
Jack Rabbit Jun 2014 #36
Girl powers Jun 2014 #39
Corruption Inc Jun 2014 #42
stillwaiting Jun 2014 #44
kristopher Jun 2014 #46
JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #52
GreenPartyVoter Jun 2014 #53
KoKo Jun 2014 #54
LeftishBrit Jun 2014 #55

Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 08:47 AM

1. But we should let history decide

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Response to bahrbearian (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:51 AM

31. I guess we won't know....

At 2:25 in the video:

Woodward Shares War Secrets
Journalist Describes Secret Details On White House's Plans For War

...

Bob Woodward: "...I just asked, "Well, how is history likely to judge your Iraq war?" And he (Bush) said, "History...," and then took his hands out of his pocket and kind of shrugged and extended his hands as if this is way off. And then he (Bush) said, "History...We won't know. We'll all be dead."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/woodward-shares-war-secrets/

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Response to xocet (Reply #31)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 02:03 PM

38. 'Bush to Raise Money for Group That Converts Jews to Bring About Second Coming of Christ'

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/11/george-w-bush-jews-for-jesus-messianic-jewish-bible-institute

He doesn't care about history because people in this mindset see history as coming to an end. The judgement of other people, especially ones in the future, simply doesn't matter to them.

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Response to cprise (Reply #38)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 05:28 PM

41. Thanks for the link. The MJ article is very interesting. n/t

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 09:06 AM

2. I think back to 2003...

we knew then and they were clueless. It is scary actually to think about how clueless they were. And also scary to realize that the leaders of such a terrible army with such terrible weapons are so clueless. God fucking damn it!

I'm proud to say did more than just walk the streets carrying a sign. I was arrested in non-violent resistance opposing the fucking atrocity that was the '03 Iraq "war". Sorry for the language but my emotional revolution at that horrendously criminal bullshit is seeping out as I type. How the fuck could we not have arrested and charged George W. Bush and Dick fucking Cheney as war criminals????

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Response to jimlup (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 09:15 AM

4. Short answer....

 

The Neocons are still in charge.

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Response to jimlup (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:53 AM

32. They weren't just clueless, they were blinded by greed and their own screwball dogma

The oil boys supported it because there was oil to loot and the ideologues insisted on it because their wrongheaded view of the country and its leader refused to be challenged by facts.

Unfortunately, the country as a whole was still reeling from the 2001 attack and in a mood to hit back at Arabs, any old Arabs would do.

Stupid playing kissyface with the Saudis was what sickened me the most, since factions in their ruling family were helping fund bin Laden's plans before and after 9/11.

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Response to jimlup (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 11:07 AM

34. I know what we should do about the mess over there now.

Get America involved again! I'm serious!

Find ALL the neocons. Round 'em all up. Issue them all the proper camo costuming and guns and ammo, give 'em a few sentences about how to operate a parachute, and then airdrop 'em straight down into the fun! THIS is the war you wanted! NOW, YOU get to see it FIRST-HAND! YOU, our LUCKY WINNERS, now have your once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to see, feel, smell, hear, and taste WAR!!!! You talked about it! You pushed for it! You hungered for it! NOW, you'll HAVE IT!!!! ALL TO YOURSELVES!!!! Cue the announcer! Johnny Olsen, tell our studio audience and the folks at home what our lucky winners have just WON!!!!!

I'd find georgie, and dickie, and wolfie, and dougie, and rummy, and condi, and all the rest of 'em, bill kristol and charles krauthammer, george will, and the rest of THEM, round 'em up, suit 'em up, and ship 'em out. EVERYBODY who advocated for the war in the first place. They wanted this mess and got it all started. So shouldn't THEY be given the chance to clean it all up?

I'd empty out the whole Pox Noise building. I'd empty out the wrong-wing think tanks - the American Enterprise Institute, the Heritage Foundation, the Cato Institute, the works! Suit 'em up and ship 'em out. Let them see, first-hand and close-up, what war is! You know none of 'em have ever had that opportunity or that noble experience before! It's Golden Opportunity Time for all these armchair warriors! I'd go directly to the so-called "Excellence in Broadcasting Network" and start with limbaugh and offer him this FABULOUS way to lose that ugly fat and unsightly bulges, once and for all! I'd go straight to NRA headquarters, grab wayne lapierre and all those lovely gun goons who are all just itching for a fight, load 'em up and ship 'em out. NOW'S THEIR CHANCE!!!!!!!!! No need to prance around merely posing as guerrillas and snipers and sharpshooters on city streets or our schools or Chipotle or the toy aisle at Target! NO! Those phony civilian scenarios aren't good enough for YOU! Those are for candy-asses! THIS is FOR REAL!!!! YOU deserve nothing but the best - The REAL THING!!! That they've all just DREAMED about!!! Let's see what you got, tough guys! NOW'S YOUR CHANCE!!!!! Now it can be theirs!!! For REAL!!!!!!! Oh the GLORY!!!!! Everybody at the bundy ranch in Nevada? Let's go!!!! Game ON!!!! Show us whatcha got! Let's not let all that God-given talent go to waste! And mccain? Those FIVE wars (FIVE!) for which you voiced such hot-blooded ardent desire during the last GOP convention? You wanted it? YOU GOT IT!!!!! Suit up! Lead the way! Hell, YOU already know what to do 'cause YOU ironically have been there before. So, hey, we'll make YOU a general this time! WHEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

Problem solved, I think.

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Response to calimary (Reply #34)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 11:42 AM

37. Yes!

It would be justice after all.

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Response to calimary (Reply #34)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 11:53 PM

48. How many, would you like to bet

 

would cower behind their mother's aprons (or in their basements)?
How many would justify staying home, by saying that they can't go over there, because it's not THEIR country?
Yeah, right, these micropenised morons, would run away, tail between their legs, like the sniveling cowards that they are!

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Response to calimary (Reply #34)

Fri Jun 13, 2014, 06:58 AM

50. i like it

this could be a cool video.

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 09:10 AM

3. I said then, and say now:

 

Iraq will be the US's Parthia. And it is just getting started.

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 09:16 AM

5. Watch for It!

People like John McCain, William Kristol, Dick Cheney and other hawks will be wanting us to go back in there.

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Response to yellowwoodII (Reply #5)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 09:39 AM

10. Yep. nt

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Response to yellowwoodII (Reply #5)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 09:55 AM

15. Hillary would have us back there in a heart beat.

 

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #15)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 04:36 PM

40. It will be interesting to see what she says after her recent "still wrong" comment.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/06/05/hillary-clinton-on-iraq-vote-i-still-got-it-wrong-plain-and-simple/

Hillary Rodham Clinton, in her strongest language yet about her 2002 Senate vote to authorize military action in Iraq, writes in her forthcoming memoir that "I still got it wrong," CBS News reported Thursday afternoon.

In "Hard Choices," Clinton, a former secretary of state and former U.S. senator who is exploring a 2016 presidential campaign, writes: "[M]any Senators came to wish they had voted against the resolution. I was one of them. As the war dragged on, with every letter I sent to a family in New York who had lost a son or daughter, a father or mother, my mistake become (sic) more painful."

Clinton continues, "I thought I had acted in good faith and made the best decision I could with the information I had. And I wasn't alone in getting it wrong. But I still got it wrong. Plain and simple."


Was she wrong before or after she was wrong?

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #40)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 06:30 PM

43. I have a dreadful feeling we'll start hearing a lot of "the war was wrong but we broke it.."

 

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Response to arcane1 (Reply #43)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 06:36 PM

45. Yep. There's always plenty of justification when the corporations can make a buck. -nt

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Response to yellowwoodII (Reply #5)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:30 AM

28. They're gnashing their teeth we didn't stay in Iraq, and are blaming Obama for what's happening now.

Dick Cheney, GW, Rumsfeld, Rice, et al should be in prison -- not shaping public opinion and, Jebus Helpus, foreign policy.

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 09:23 AM

6. W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Condi Rice, and David Rumsfeld ignored the history of the art of war

 

Because they want their corporate axis to make more money from two wars and all fronts in Africa.

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 09:28 AM

7. Agreed. And let's consider what our $2 trillion war has done for the average Iraqi.

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 09:36 AM

8. well, i participated in demonstration(s)

 

against the FIRST Iraq war.
-
In my mind, the fix was in for the 2nd Iraq war, and demonstrations would just be a waste of effort.

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Response to Leme (Reply #8)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 09:44 AM

11. Leme

Leme

I have never been in a demonstration - other than in the demonstration against the Iraq war in 2003 - the only demonstration I have ever been part of - and I have to say - in "our" demonstration we was more than 60.000 people - grown ups - kids - young ones and old ones - a diverse group of people who for many reasons deiced it was a good idea to demonstrate against a war who was senseless - and against every hing the US once was standing for...

Of course it failed - but at least we showed our disdain for the impending war - and we was in the right - not the other way around... The Neo-cons - the ultra-Conservatives - and many million of americans and others who was duped into believing the war was true and fair - should at least give us, who was in the right some recognition for it - and apology for it.... If they have any decency then.. I suspect they do not have that..

Diclotican

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Response to Diclotican (Reply #11)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:09 AM

20. Zero offense meant, in fact a true good for you and those who demonstrated

 

however, as I said, here it appeared to me the fix was in. Not enough time in the USA to effect a change of course. That Tiananmen Square guy stopped the line of tanks with a grocery bag or two... but the massacre still happened. He sort of wasted his time.

edit: a change of the course of events

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Response to Leme (Reply #20)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:24 AM

25. Leme

Leme

No offense taken - I know it was not going to convince anyone in power - that it was not good a idea to go to war - even if I was one of 60.000 who was demonstration against it - but it was at least a form of moral Statement against the war - the course was set - and we all was in the know about it - but at least we had the courage to state publicly that we was against it - and wanted to change the course to something different.. We had a prime minister who was all to well in the know - and wanted to be a partner to it all - but our Parliament - and most of the people was against it - so he had to say no to the war -even though most people know that he was all for the war... He had been in the White House - and speaking to the US president in the Oval Office - and got somewhat star-stuck about it all I think....

Off course the man who stooped the line of tanks was not changing the course of what would happened on Ti amen Square later on - but he stated in a way who was extremely public - that he do not wanted military forces to crush the students demonstration on Ti amen Square... And even though no one know who he was - or if he is still alive - he is one of many unknown heroes - who just was standing "His ground" in a small, desperate way of standing up to the all powerfully military force... You need some real moral strings in your body if you is stooping a line of tanks with just a couple of grocery bags to defend yourself...

Diclotian

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Response to Diclotican (Reply #11)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:15 AM

22. thinking about it, i may have participated in a protest of the 2nd Iraq war, just few showed up

 

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Response to Leme (Reply #22)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:31 AM

29. Leme

Leme

I think that most americans was rather rattled up for the war - the war drums had been playing all the time from 11 sept 2001 you know.... Scared about the attack - an make into a frenzy from med media, specially Fox news who had wall to wall coverage about USA under attack with large letters, day after day - and as time goes on - more and more patriotic - with more and more US flag on it - even the International form of CNN was wall to wall all out patriotic in that day who was 24/7 busy make the case for war...

Diclotican

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Response to Diclotican (Reply #29)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:58 AM

33. the meek response from the Democrats convinced me the fix was in, not like I had major doubts anyway

 

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Response to Diclotican (Reply #29)

Fri Jun 13, 2014, 06:35 AM

49. Yep, and since there wasn't a draft, most Americans were cool with it.

Their kids and grandkids wouldn't be going over there to get shot up.


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Response to Leme (Reply #22)

Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:26 AM

51. I went to 6 anti-Iraq war demos in 2002/3

Including the big one in London with over a million people marching.

I could see that it wasn't going to end well, but the aftermath of the Iraq war has been far worse then I ever thought it would be, and it's still getting worse.

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 09:38 AM

9. T_i_B

T_i_B

Most of them who was harassing - and accusing everyone who was against the war in Iraq in 2003, should make a public apology to everyone they offended when they made their case for the war.... Most of them should be ashamed about who they supported - as it all was a big, ugly lie - a lie who have devestated not just Iraq - but also most of the Middle east - and who could end up in a whole worse mess than it already is in...

We, who was against the war - in out own way warned about what would came out of the war - destabilized Iraq - maybe the whole continent.. We all warned about the chaos - who started after Iraq was occupied - and who even not americans was willing to stop happening - the british was a good second but it was first and foremost the US who made Iraq the devastating disaster it is today...

But then again - I doubt we will se anyone of them, our co-workers - or nabours in some cases close friends and in to many cases even family - ever apology for what they said - and what they did - even as they are shown to be absolutely in the wrong - in fact they supported something that would have been prosecuted as crimes against humanity if the ideals of the Nuremberg trials still had some benefits to it...

The only thing "we" was wrong about, when it came to war - was how horrible it was in the end - and I doubt anyone of us even fathomed the dept of the catastrophe the arrogant - and painfully stupid policy the US government had when they deiced it was a smart move to destroy Iraq - and destabilize the whole region in the prosess... The former GWB administration have doing more damage to the Middle east - and to the world - that OBL and the islamic extremist was ever able to dream about - and the future in the middle east do not look positive for a long time - as extremist have ben embolden by their relative success in Iraq lately - some of the largest City's in the country is now in their power - and tonnes of weapon - is now in their hand - who would make it more difficult than ever to destroy them - as this is more or less start of the ate weapons - not weapons from the last war in Afghanistan when Soviet was involved....

I think we should stop being polite to the republicans - the neo-cons - and to the former members of the Bush jr administration - and starting making the strong case for making their pay for their crimes - even if it would be a painfully for the Country - it is the only way to really go forward...

Diclotican

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 09:45 AM

12. Rich people must get richer. That's THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE WORLD.

Amazing, but true.

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 09:48 AM

13. I don't remember Bill Clinton's exact words, but...

...the gist of what he said was that everyone knows that war inevitably leads to massive death, destruction, suffering, and atrocities by all sides, and anyone who goes to war as anything but a last resort is OK with all that.

In a just world, one of the prominent displays at the Bush Library would be a rope.

A used one.



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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 09:50 AM

14. It was all about war for profit

The Bush cartel has earned itself a place in the Ninth Ring of Dante's Ninth Circle.

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:00 AM

16. The Clown Prince says he has a clear conscience. Which is horseshit, of course.

He has no conscience.

And since the Iraq War accomplished the goals he had in mind for it: re-election and billions for the war industries, he's going to sleep well for the rest of his unexamined life.

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:01 AM

17. So when

 

are the perpetrators of these war crimes going to trial?
Please inform me, as I would have a mountain of popcorn to cook up beforehand.

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Response to RoccoR5955 (Reply #17)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 11:18 AM

35. No trials. Let's not bother. Let's have them go over there and fight!

I attended a whole bunch of those protests. Took the kids with me, too, on occasion. AGAIN, WE were correct. AGAIN, WE had it pegged. We were summarily ignored, muzzled, insulted, laughed at, scorned, and punished - people lost jobs, family members (to the war as well as to disagreements and fights over this that ripped families apart). And I'm getting mighty tired of saying that, too. It gives me no pleasure. It gives me no satisfaction. What would give me those things - is if America would have listened to us the first time.

How many times, by now, has OUR side been correct? Called it correctly? How many times has it been by now?

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Response to calimary (Reply #35)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 11:34 PM

47. We have been correct so many times...

 

that I gave up counting!
When the hell will these bass turds listen to US, and not the creeps who are raking in the money, on top of the blood of our brothers and sisters?

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:05 AM

18. Yeah, true. But a lot of people made money off MIC stocks.

And it created a lot of military jobs as well. Young people couldn't wait to volunteer for their country.
Oh, and also get paid, receive benefits and college tuition. But I'm sure that didn't change a thing, they'd volunteer either way.

They knew exactly what would happen. They knew exactly how much of a quagmire it would be. They just cared about the money more. Which they still do and which they always will as long we keep supporting war mongers over peace mongers.

So, yeah. Some people gathered and made a stink. Just not as big a one as Wall St investors made.
The only voice we have that matters anymore is our money. It can either support more of the same or it can be held back from the merchants of death. Granted the returns are much worse, but the peace of mind is invaluable.

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:07 AM

19. Yet another reason why ...

 

... Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld should have been tried for war crimes. Who knows how much MORE horrible destruction to Iraq and its people will continue to ensue for years as after-effects of their actions?

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:12 AM

21. K&R

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:20 AM

23. We shall hope history puts the blame where blame is due...

Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and Bush(s)

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:21 AM

24. Depends on how hard you dig.

The immediate cause would be support for the uprising against Assad. Without that there wouldn't have been the flood of jihadis into Syria, the establishment of territory in a large part of the country for ISIS to form and later morph into ISIL. Want an immediate cause, there you have it.

Of course, there's a lot of piddling in that, too. So when we started to help some anti-Assad groups, the "usual suspects" on the Peninsula helped their preferred anti-Assad groups. Weapons, money, etc. Without that help the "cause" might not have gotten to where it is.

The instability in Iraq is certainly a contributing factor. The Shi'ite government--nicely majoritarian, BTW, for those that love majoritarianism--has been treating the "out of power people" rather badly. It's bred resentment where none needed additional breeding.

Removing the strong-man Saddam was a factor, to be sure. It let all the forces that he'd helped build up explode. For Saddam was nothing if not sectarian--from seizing Shi'ite mosques and giving them to Sunni populations, moving Sunnis to Shi'ite areas to divide the area, re-establishing the authority of traditional tribes and playing them off against each other, esp. widening the Sunni/Shi'ite divide. Thanks to Saddam, most Sunnis were convinced that they were a majority of the population and the primary economic driver. They weren't, of course, but myth is stronger than fact for a lot of people. When you find somebody who likes driving wedges between people to shore up their base, you know you're looking at a horrible person.

Then there were the corrupt and the smugglers who made a lot of money under Saddam. They certainly didn't like losing influence. Like under Hamas in Gaza, the government knew who they were and what they were doing.

Anti-US protesters tended to support the anti-Assad protesters. Oops. They also defended, even when they should have known better, some of the nastier secular trends that Saddam employed to cause religious extremism to flourish. ("Secular" means "long-term" here. Yes, it's an established meaning of the word.)

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:27 AM

26. I marched in all the pre-war demonstrations from Afghanistan to Iraq

The complete and utter ineffectiveness of the demonstrations was a wake up call for me and for others. The media ignored us and so did every single politician. Unfortunately our efforts were outdated and worthless but it did teach us just how useless the media had become. We got wiser, if nothing else. Maybe the internet will be a useful tool for regular people who need to stand up to authority and oppression. Time will tell.

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:35 AM

30. I think it's a little more complicated than that and they do not necessarily have to be a

group inside of IRAQ. There are companies who do this sort of craziness as a business.

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 11:19 AM

36. Heckuva job, Frat Boy

Mr. Jones was quite correct: we knew what would come. Perhaps it wasn't so much the invasion itself that we were protesting in February 2003 -- we knew that couldn't be stopped -- but that which would come.

If by the time we were protesting that which would come it was inevitable, then perhaps it is because we were too late in raising the issue. There is a long, long list of villains who put Iraq on the trajectory that passes through this moment in time. Most of them
weren't even Iraqi and the one in particular who was never won a free and fair election. Oh, well. Who are we Yanks to complain that Saddam never won a free and fair election? Neither did George W. Bush.

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 02:59 PM

39. I too marched

In D.C. and locally. And was called a traitor.

We need to elect people who know their history, not their Bible.

I agree with those who want to suit up Cheney, Bush, Wolfie and all and drop-kick them into Iraq.

Don't forget the insufferable George Will. GGP

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 06:36 PM

44. Money Trumps Peace! nt

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Thu Jun 12, 2014, 06:52 PM

46. Think Progress "Why The Middle East Is Now A Giant Warzone, In One Terrifying Chart"

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:35 AM

52. I wish my dad were alive

He's vindicated. He knew it would end in civil war.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #52)

Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:25 AM

53. Same here.

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Fri Jun 13, 2014, 04:57 PM

54. Yes..we were. Thanks for the post.

Protested before the Invasion Vote and participated in Vigils for almost a year after the Invasion. Watched all of the Byrd/Kennedy speeches against the Invasion on the Senate floor on C-Span. There was a huge group of DU'ers who were actively involved in trying to stop the Invasion and catalolged all the horrific events in Iraq after we invaded for years.

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Response to T_i_B (Original post)

Fri Jun 13, 2014, 05:07 PM

55. Very true and very sad.

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