Pic of the Moment: Bill Clinton: DOMA should be overturned.

[Skinner]

Bill Clinton: It's time to overturn DOMA

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[HomerRamone]

1. now if he'd just turn against his NAFTA and welfare "reform", too nt

[DURHAM D]

2. Nice turd drop on the LGBTQ community.

[HomerRamone]

3. Because I brought up other bad things Clinton's done, I'm insulting those hurt by this one? nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

6. Typical.

That's like someone who wants to save the whales getting mad at someone wanting to save the forests.

[Ken Burch]

22. "Keep The Whales Out Of The Forest!"

[Ken Burch]

20. No turd drop at all.

NAFTA and "welfare reform" were just as unjust to workers and the poor(a good number of whom ARE LGBTQ)as DOMA was to to the LGBTQ community. In all three cases, a chunk of the Democratic coalition was thrown under the bus in the name of some cynical notion of "the greater good"-in the last two, specifically, the notion(wrong and known to be wrong at the time)that Clinton could only get re-elected if he kicked gays and the poor in the teeth.

[Jenoch]

4. Clinton signed DOMA into law

during the 1996 presidential campaign to court the southern vote. Now he comes out against it. What took him so long?

[lark]

5. Politics is what took him so long.

Same reason it took Obama so long. We wouldn't be where we are now, without Biden's push.
He's the real hero of this play.

[totodeinhere]

9. I suspect that if polls still showed solid public opposition to gay marriage

that Clinton would not be changing his stance. But since most polls thankfully now show support for gay marriage and support is gaining daily, he twisted in the wind and changed his stand on it.

[lark]

11. Clinton and Obama both changed their tunes

Neither was a leader. It took Biden to push Obama to change.

[Drunken Irishman]

35. The difference, of course, is that Obama changed his in an election season...

And he's opposed DOMA his whole political career. Yes, Biden may have given him a nudge, but he didn't have to come out in support of it. He could have said, "I respect Joe Biden's opinion on this matter...we've had debates on this issue, but ultimately, we just disagree." It would've been a lie, but it would have worked well enough. Instead, Biden jumped and so did Obama. It was a risky move because even today, gay marriage only receives a slight majority of support - if that at all (depending on the poll, I guess). In a close election, as 2012 was shaping up to be when he came out, that could've been the difference between winning and losing. It wasn't. Maybe it helped in the end, but no one could have known the impact it would've had when he made the announcement - especially when Obama won the White House carrying states Bush won in '04.

[awoke_in_2003]

13. One difference...

Obama came out in favor of marriage equality before an election, not when he was politcally safe. I applaud him for that.

[Ken Burch]

26. That, in fact, was the single most courageous moment of Obama's presidency.

He'll never top that(unless he recognizes Cuba on his way out the door, which would be too much to ask for).

[awoke_in_2003]

29. I think I must agree. nt

[Ash_F]

32. Politics, but also culture

The culture of the country has improved in that many years. It is no longer fashionable to discriminate against gays.

[markpkessinger]

15. There was a very real fear

. . . that if he didn't sign it into law, conservatives would have pushed for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. And such an amendment might very well have passed at that time. IF that had happened, we would be in a far worse position now having to overturn a constitutional amendment than we are merely having to challenge or reverse a statute.

[MADem]

31. True. Clinton ran on lifting the Armed Forces ban.

He wasn't an enemy of equal opportunity for gays. He may have had religious hangups (from an upbringing in a very specific culture) about that marriage word, but he wasn't the only person in public life who was working with a brainwashed attitude at that time. He was badgered every time he tried to do ANYTHING...he was hated for "stealing" the place that was "rightfully rigged" for GHWB's 2nd term. He went into the office of the Presidency fighting an opposition that didn't just want revenge, they wanted blood and pain and his face ground in the mud. He never had it easy.

[Drunken Irishman]

33. I think that reaction is extreme...

The process of getting a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage is extremely taxing and most likely unsustainable. It's why it never happened under Bush, even though conservatives pushed it. I just don't see it ever being ratified, similar to what happened with the Equal Rights Amendment.

[Hippo_Tron]

38. The Federal Marriage Amendment got virtually no Democratic votes in 2006

Yea I realize that it's a decade later, but even the conservative Dems didn't vote for it. 2/3rds of each house is a steep hurdle to overcome.

[Ken Burch]

21. He didn't GET the Southern vote, either:

The number of electoral votes he took from the edge of the Confederacy was too trivial to be even close to decisive...and in any case, Clinton had no meaningful progressive achievements in his second term anyway(he created a few national parks and that was pretty much it). Nothing for the poor...nothing for workers...nothing for anyone who believed in human rights.

The rim states Clinton carried, he'd have taken WITHOUT NAFTA, welfare reform and the DOMA signing.

If Clinton had LOST in 1996, we wouldn't have noticed.

[Jenoch]

23. I never wrote that he got the southern vote.

[Ken Burch]

24. Didn't say you did...just pointing out that his "tactic" there was a total failure.

He'd have taken every state he carried in '96 even if he'd run on Dukakis' 1988 platform.

[Jenoch]

27. He could have put on a

a helmet and ridden around sticking out of a tank and still won in '96.

[Ken Burch]

28. Probably so.

Would have had a cooler-looking helmet, possibly.

[Drunken Irishman]

34. He was also well on his way to reelection before signing it.

He signed it in September. Had he vetoed it - I doubt it does him in as he was leading by 20 points in the polls at that point.

[Ken Burch]

36. That's true.

And it would be easier to accept his change of position now if it came with

A)An apology for doing something he knew was cruel and pointless;
B)An admission that his comment about "not excusing" discrimination while signing a discriminatory bill simply never cut it.

He has nothing to lose now by "manning up"...and yet, he's still rationalizing what he did.

[aaaaaa5a]

7. I think you guys are being too harsh.

For 1996 that was a pretty courageous position. And it was not politically to his advantage.

Sometimes you can't move AHEAD of time.



Are we now to think that Abe Lincoln hated African Americans because even though he signed the Emancipation Proclamation, African Americans weren't truly free, and still face rampant discrimination to this day?

[Ken Burch]

25. There was no courage in signing DOMA...it was impossible to sign that

and still do anything FOR LGBTQ people...there were no other issues they could still MAKE gains on while that was on the books.

It's meaningless to sign what you KNOW to be a piece of discriminatory legislation and then put in a tiny little note on the margins say "this doesn't mean discrimination is ok".

Would he have used that tactic if the Fugitive Slave Law had crossed his desk?

[AtomicKitten]

41. Worse, he ran gay-baiting ads touting signing DOMA in 1996.

link: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/03/11/464805/-Andrew-Sullivan-Clinton-ran-anti-gay-ads-in-96

In an article in today's Washington Times, entitled "For Christian Radio, Clinton Changes Tune on Gays, Abortion," it was reported that the Clinton-Gore campaign "shrugged off" angry calls to shelve the radio ad. The article cited reports from gay and lesbian groups that the campaign might delete the portion of the ad which boasts of Clinton signing the anti-gay Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), but "Clinton campaign spokesman Joe Lockhart said there are no plans to alter the radio ads, which will run for 'a few more days.'" After boasting about Clinton signing the anti-gay DOMA, the ad concludes with the line: "President Clinton has fought for our values and America is better for it."

Regarding the apologist assertion that he saved America from a constitutional amendment:

"Excerpts from Platform Adopted by Republican National Convention" 8/13/1996: Individual Rights and Personal Safety - "We endorse the Defense of Marriage Act to prevents states from being forced to recognize same-sex unions..."

Does it say anything about the need for a federal amendment??

[rivegauche]

8. Only 17 years too late.

THAT is exactly why I changed my party registration, from Dem (lifelong) to Green. DOMA is a piece of shit, nothing but ignorant right-wing bigotry and Clinton signed it. Honestly, I can never forgive him for that. Fuck his 17-year-late apology. He never should have signed it to begin with. I am still registered Green, in fact, and until the Dem party fully endorses EQUAL RIGHTS for everyone in the platform, I'm staying green.

[FreeState]

10. So you are changing your registration then?

http://www.advocate.com/politics/election/2012/09/04/democrats-approve-marriage-equality-platform

The Democratic Party made history at its national convention Tuesday when it became the first major American political party to endorse marriage equality in its platform, drawing a sharp contrast with the Republican Party’s official stance on the issue.

Delegates approved the platform with its explicit mention of “marriage equality” by voice vote on the floor of the Charlotte Convention Center in North Carolina shortly after 6 p.m. The move was preceded by a rousing speech from platform committee chair Newark Mayor Cory Booker that brought the crowd to its feet.

Advocates who pressed for the inclusion of the plank praised the final vote. The voice affirmation marked the culmination of a process that turned high profile earlier this year when Freedom to Marry launched the Democrats: Say I Do campaign in February. The advocacy also included two rounds of testimony from groups at the draft platform and platform committee meetings this summer.

“Today the Democratic Party stood up for family values and the value of all families by including a freedom to marry plank in its official platform,” said Freedom to Marry founder and president Evan Wolfson in a statement. “The party’s embrace of the freedom to marry matches the sentiment of the American people. They know that that marriage matters, that gay and non-gay loving and committed couples deserve respect, and that strengthening families is part of how we build a stronger country for all.”

[rivegauche]

12. Yes I sure will! nt

[Scootaloo]

14. Better late than never, I guess

He had the option to not sign it. Maybe it woulda been passed without him, but he didn't have to participate.

[1983law]

16. Should mean about as much

as Norma McCorvey who opposes Roe v. Wade.

[NYC_SKP]

17. Well. I guess you do what you can do in the age in which you're doing it.

I won't hold this against him, and with this statement he redeems himself, a little.

There's so much more he could say; for workers, against concentration of wealth, and so much more.

We need more of this President William Jefferson Clinton taking the right side of issues.

And we need it right now.

[Ken Burch]

19. He gained nothing politically by signing DOMA.

Same-sex marriage wasn't even close to happening, and there weren't THAT many people who were only going to vote for him so long as he made it clear that same-sex relationships were to be kept legally inferior.

[Ken Burch]

18. So...he was for it then so he COULD be against it now?

If Clinton had been president in 1965, He'd have probably signed a "Defense of Elections" that repealed the Voting Rights Act-and there are people who'd have defended him for it, just as a lot of folks said he HAD to shit on gays and the poor in '96 "so he could get re-elected".

[lunasun]

37. Did he ever apoligize for DADT?

That was another turd for dinner served up after election!
Insulting to the ENTIRE military IMO

[craigmatic]

39. It's shit like this that let's me know that Bill wasn't a good president.

He spent most of his time in office trying to keep his job instead of doing it and when he did get things done it was useless shit like DOMA which he now has to apologize for. You can tell it was all about power for Bill and not principle.

[LaPera]

40. "At what age did you choose not to be gay?"

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