JFK, laser trajectory analysis in Dealey Plaza

[Quixote1818]

Don't know if Oswald was hired or if he was even the one who fired the shots, but everything I have ever seen based on good science shows the shots came from the book depository and the magic bullet theory is complete BS.

[pam4water]

1. Marked for later.

[FreakinDJ]

2. No one that ever fired a bullet would agree the fatal shot came from behind

[Suich]

4. Agree.

The cans were NEVER closer to me after I hit them.

[Quixote1818]

7. Try shooting at a melon instead

The only reason I am showing this is the melon experiment. I generally think Penn and Teller are full of shit and I don't take a stance on other parts of the conspiracy which may or may not be true.

[AtheistCrusader]

12. I've caught pieces of coconut shell from one I shot at 100 yards.

It can happen.

[Drunken Irishman]

14. If Penn and Teller don't believe in a second gunman, neither do I.

Well I didn't before. But this only reinforces my feelings.

[jmondine]

19. They also don't believe in recycling or energy conservation, fyi.

[Drunken Irishman]

20. And they also don't believe in Social Security or other social programs...

I don't agree with 'em on everything - but this I do.

[paulkienitz]

31. that's because they can't subject energy conservation to an experiment

[Schema Thing]

5. lol. except, y'know, forensic experts.

[Quixote1818]

6. Here you go

[AtheistCrusader]

13. Wrong.

[zebonaut]

3. Shot did come from behind

Entrance wound in back of head; causes slight forward motion but then the head snaps back due to the physics of matter exploding from the front side of the head.

But who cares!

We know Oswald fired the shot from the building. Chasing bullet trajectories is not even needed. But; in doing so; the science of trajectory will validate the science of normal logic. There is no mystery. Just one loser with a $19 mail order rifle.

[jmondine]

21. There is no forward motion

The myth of "forward motion" is based solely on the change in position of the back of JFK's from frame 312 to frame 313. The problem is that it is the only part of his head or torso that shows this change. His head has not been pushed forward. The back of his head is several inches further forward because it has completely changed shape.

Watch the Zapruder film at regular speed, or even half speed. No forward motion occurs.

[zebonaut]

26. Forward motion or not; he was still shot by Oswald

Screw the precise analysis of exactly how Kennedy's head exploded; he was still shot by Oswald from the window. When it hit it; went Boom; splat.

[stopbush]

34. You're right. If the Zapruder film didn't exist, we'd be left with the piece of JFK's skull

from the back of his head that shows an entry wound.

How do we know it was an entry wound? Because the point of entry on the exterior of the skull is smaller that the point of exit on the interior wall of the skull. That effect is called beveling, and it proves conclusively that the bullet entered JFK through the back of his skull.

Total and complete end of story.

[zebonaut]

37. Oh and guess what Oswald had already made an attempt on General Walker

Oswald had already made a previous assasination attempt. That seals it. Case closed.

[cpwm17]

32. JFK's head went forward with the shot from behind

Last edited Mon Nov 25, 2013, 11:59 AM - Edit history (1)

It's unmistakable: http://users.skynet.be/mar/Eng/Headshot/back&left-eng.htm

He was shot from behind. Plus most of Kennedy's blood and brain matter went forward. The pressure in Kennedy's head cause a little to also go backwards.

The autopsy also showed that JFK was shot from behind and Oswald was witnessed firing the weapon from the Texas School Book Depository, where Oswald's weapon and three shells from the weapon were found. Before the assassination, Oswald was photographed with the very same weapon. The bullets that hit JFK and Connelly matched Oswald's rifle, to the exclusion of all others. An employee on the floor below Oswald heard the shells hit the floor. Oswald fled the scene, after which he was witnessed murdering Officer Tippit.

There is also irrefutable evidence that the previous shot came from behind.

[proReality]

8. Signs

It appears they did not take into account that the large sign from the date they did their tests was almost half again larger than the "large" sign from 1963. The newer sign would definitely give a wrong trajectory. The old sign--not so much.

If the shot to Kennedy's head came from behind, why weren't the governor and his wife covered in blood instead of the S.S. agent and police, who were behind the car and were covered in blood?

And why would a large group of people, including at least 2 police officers, believe the shots came from the knoll and rush toward it to catch the shooter? Mass delusion? All deaf in their left ears?

It seems this group of Texans were out to prove the official story is right rather than being objective.

The truth is always in the very first hours of reporting, before stories become "official". Watch those reports, then compare them to the "official" line before assuming every detail has been included in that story. Try watching Dark Legacy, it's on Netflix Instant and YouTube.

[GKirk]

11. response

"If the shot to Kennedy's head came from behind, why weren't the governor and his wife covered in blood instead of the S.S. agent and police, who were behind the car and were covered in blood? "

The shot hits, the blood and brain matter fly up and forward as the limo continues forward at (I Believe 25mph) thus depositing the material towards the back.

In regards to why did the 'ear' witnesses think the shots came from the grassy knoll? echos

[starroute]

17. No, the blood and brain matter would retain the forward velocity of the car

If you're riding on a subway train and you jump up in the air, you come down again in the same spot. The train doesn't move away under you just because your feet aren't on the ground.

In the same way, Kennedy's blood and brain matter would have retained the forward speed of the limousine added to whatever forward additional impetus they gained from the bullet. They wouldn't have suddenly started going backwards with relationship to the car.

[The Midway Rebel]

23. Flawed science analogy.

1. On the subway you are protected from the wind.

2. Your whole body is not the same mass and density as an airborne mist of blood, brain, and bone.

[jmondine]

25. I have been in Dealey Plaza during a thunderstorm

I had no problem telling where the loud reports were coming from. There were no echoes.

[GKirk]

39. More flawed science...

...the sound of thunder from above won't echo like a gun shot from a 6th floor window.

I've never been to Dealey Plaza but I've been deer hunting in the woods. I've heard gunshots and assumed they were from the east only to find out they came from the west.

[zebonaut]

27. The problem; is the asking of too many questions

The bullet hit at high speed. It went boom ; splat. Isn't that good enough? As for why Connelly didn't get a specific amount of blood on his suit; I don't know; the spray went a little bit in one direction. Its irrelevant.

[stopbush]

36. But Connally and his wife were hit with JFK's blood, as was the limo driver.

They were hit by blood and brains flying forward from JFK's head wound. The SA and the police office who got covered in his blood both reported running/driving through an atomized mist of his blood that was hanging in the air.

There are so many simple explanations for why people thought they heard shots from the grassy knoll when there were none that I can't recount them all. But one can start with the fact that the large majority of people claimed the shots came form the TSBD, that many people aren't trained or used to hearing gunfire, that Dealey Plaza has an echo to it which makes it harder to determine where a shot is coming from, etc.

BTW - there was no "official story" out there when the Dallas Police Department - which did an incredible job identifying the killer, capturing the killer and building a case against the killer in a short two days (and a not-so-good job protecting that killer) - did its work. It's work is only part of the record and the evidence that pointed to Oswald as the lone killer.

[The Midway Rebel]

9. This video is another must watch for those interested in facts over suspicions.

Cold Case JFK.

http://video.pbs.org/video/2365118537/

[Ezlivin]

10. The most convincing theory

And newest to me is the one that identifies a secret service agent as the "second gunman."

In the book "Mortal Error: The Shot that Killed JFK" a ballistics expert named Howard Donohue spent 25 years investigating the assassination and determined that based on ballistics the shot came from a secret service agent who was carrying an AR15.

I was fortunate enough to watch a preview of "JFK: The Smoking Gun" which is a documentary of veteran police detective Colin McLaren who spent four years on the forensic cold case investigation of JFK's assassination. What he had, and other investigators did not, was modern technology and access to all the evidence, facts and eye-witness testimony. His conclusion matches that of Donohue.

It laid to rest the "magic bullet" theory, claimed that Oswald got off two shots. The fatal shot, however, came from behind as a result of a secret service agent "fumbling" his gun. Everything is based on forensics and the science of ballistics. Very intriguing and it can explain the secret service's bizarre behavior afterward.

[lastlib]

35. I watched all of "JFK: The Smoking Gun", and it convinced me....

...the Secret Service man, fumbling his gun when the car accelerated, fired the fatal shot. The entrance wound from that shot did not match Oswald's ammunition, but was consistent with the AR-15 the SS guy had, as was the exit wound resulting from the bullet exploding. I'm leaning more and more strongly toward the theory that the Secret Service accidentally killed JFK.

(Wonder how long it'll be 'til I get a visit from Agent Mike and his pals.....I'll write from the gulag..........)

[MrMickeysMom]

15. The "magic bullet" is precisely that...

This is the bullet which must have created seven separate wounds in both Kennedy and John Connally in order for Arlen Specter's 'magic bullet' theory to be correct. If this bullet did not create all those wounds, then there are more than three shots and more than one shooter.

When this bullet was found on a stretcher in Parkland Hospital, it had no blood on it. In fact, the bullet that struck Connally left some lead permanently in his wrist, while this bullet appears to be undamaged. Dr. Cyril Wecht, former President of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences and consultant to the House Select Committee on the Assassinations (HSCA), declared that this state of affairs is simply impossible, and he should know.

And…
The Zapruder film fails to support the government's designation of a lone shooter.
However one looks at the film, neither interpretation supports Lee Harvey Oswald as the lone assassin.

The Z-film, as everyone knows, shows the President moving violently backward upon the last shot striking his head. This movement supports the idea that the fatal headshot came from the front—specifically, the area around the grassy knoll. Now Groden himself has some amazing further revelations in his study of the Z-film, which he is going to publish soon, but I will say nothing of that here.

Fetzer and Jack White believe they can prove that the film, rather than showing the actual assassination, has been altered into a kind of cartoon. I don't wish to go into the reasons for that here, as they can do a much better job of explicating themselves than I can. However, if the Z-film has been altered, then obviously Oswald—at minimum—had at least one accomplice, presumably a capable film technician.

Whether the Z-film has been altered or not, it contradicts the Warren Report's conclusions.

[Quixote1818]

16. This explains why the head jerks backwards once the bullet passes

Everyone knows this and yet many dishonest people still use the jerking back as an argument. It's intellectual dishonesty.

[MrMickeysMom]

18. It is not intellectual dishonesty…

It is a non-scientific examination of what happened in real time.

If you want a scientific examination of what happened in real time… http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017159342

[Quixote1818]

29. So why did the blood and most of the brain matter splatter foreword with the car going 25 mph nt

[MrMickeysMom]

40. It didn't

[GoneFishin]

33. Talk about dishonest. The friggin' red hat falls off the melon and then reappears for the entire

duration of the side view. Furthermore, this video demonstrates that on a melon the exit wound causes a large hole, and in that case their drawing of the bullet path shown in the first 0.5 seconds of this video shows that JFK's head should have lurched forward and to the left, according to them.

I see nothing useful here. Just more inconsistencies.

[zebonaut]

38. Thank goodness for Penn & Teller; Vince Bugliosi; and rational thought

[zebonaut]

28. Bullet did not zigzag; Kennedy and Connelly were simply aligned differently

Change the alignment of the victims; there is no zigzag. Jesus; conspiracy theorists; get a life after 50 years

[ErikJ]

22. Hard science wins-thanks! nt

[jmondine]

24. Wow... there are some serious problems with the second video

First off, the video itself states that Kennedy is already reacting to being shot when he emerges from the sign. Connolly's reaction doesn't occur until after Kennedy is fully visible. Kennedy jerks forward at this same moment... after he has already started to react to the throat wound.

Also, perhaps they address this later, but the horizontal trajectory between Kennedy and Connolly is far from the only problem with the magic bullet theory... and the magic bullet is far from the only problem with the official assassination story.

For example, the video never addresses the wound in Connolly's left thigh, that he's still holding his hat after the shot which apparently shattered his wrist, or that Kennedy's throat wound was higher than the wound in his back.

[Quixote1818]

30. Thats not at all what I saw.

The bulge in Connolly's jacket occurs one frame before JFK starts to lift his arms up and react. That is dead one perfect for what would occur. The bullet is going to hit Connolly before JFK reacts and that is exactly what happens. The bulge in Connolly's jacket occurs at 2:36 in the video and then right after that Kennedy reacts.

As for his throat would being higher than the wound on his back, that is 100% true but go to the 7:51 mark of the first video and stop it. It shows exactly his position when the bullet struck. He was slumped over just enough that the bullet did enter the back at a lower spot than it exited.