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Related: About this forumSandra Fluke Destroys 'Corporations Are People' Argument
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Sandra Fluke, the former Georgetown University Law student who became a national face of the Affordable Care Act after Republicans denied her the right to speak on a panel, appeared on MSNBC's 'All In With Chris Hayes' on Tuesday.
Fluke, who now works as a social justice attorney, went head-to-head with the Washington Examiner's Timothy Carney about the new health care law's contraception mandate. Some employers may be exempt from the mandate based on religious or moral reasons. But Fluke said it was a bad idea to let companies chose what health care services they want to cover.
"It's a corporation picking and choosing what types of law they want to comply with," she said. "Our belief in this society has always been that we protect the liberty of individuals in their private lives, but that when you cross that line and go into the publics sphere and decide you want to operate as a company, make a profit off the public, you need to abide by public's laws."
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/26/sandra-fluke-corporations-are-people_n_4347217.html
alfie
(522 posts)Can Hobby Lobby say that their employees cannot pay for an abortion using money they earned working there? If so, can a vegetarian member of PETA say their employees cannot use their salary to buy meat because they are against eating meat for moral reasons? Can a Jewish boss dictate that am employee not use their salary for buying pork? Can any boss say an employee's salary cannot be spent of alcohol or tobacco or any other product they find offensive?
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)Creating custom made religions.
Ace Acme
(1,464 posts)Friends from the writing community in NYC said he told them he was going into the religion business because there was more money in it.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)NuttyFluffers
(6,811 posts)the believe all problems, including all illnesses, accidents, even death, can be avoided by enough faith in christ.
given this is a capitalist appeal to avoid responsibility, all companies will convert to church of christ scientist. that way they completely avoid all cases of healthcare responsibility for illness, work endangerment accidents, even wrongful death. it would be mass conversion to faith healing for all, in all cases, ASAP.
if the courts allow this it would either be biasing one church over others (like this crazy one above) or derelict in their oath to preserve the welfare of the people; either way their argument for this verdict is grounds for their USSC seat impeachment as they either are no longer cognizant of the fairly applied applications, or hold actual malice to USA. if they want to be seen as sane there is only one logical verdict.
The River
(2,615 posts)because you got this one very wrong:
"the believe all problems, including all illnesses, accidents, even death, can be avoided by enough faith in christ."
The historical Jesus is a very minor figure in Christian Science and is not deified.
The no doctor rule is harmful and it is literally killing Church membership, but when it
comes to "crazy" beliefs, rituals and "thou shall not restrictions", Christian Science is
way down on the list. There are no "sins" or eternal damnation. No one has ever been abused by a Christian Science priest or clergyman because there are no priests or clergy.
NuttyFluffers
(6,811 posts)weissmam
(905 posts)If she ran for public office she would get my vote in a heart beat
freedom fighter jh
(1,782 posts)This would not happen if health insurance were provided directly by the government.
If it were, of course taxpayers rather than employers could complain that they didn't want to support contraception and abortions. I will shed no tears for those taxpayers after so many years of being forced to support war.
truth2power
(8,219 posts)I agree with your second paragraph, also.
Turbineguy
(37,291 posts)I don't think I'd have the time or energy to get into stuff that is obviously between a person and their Doctor.
As a supervisor I certainly did not get involved with such things.
Gothmog
(144,919 posts)I am a big fan
calimary
(81,110 posts)I hope she lands some really GREAT jobs with lots of clout and influence in the future! We need her - and more like her!
adavid
(140 posts)wearing a 1970's plaid tie and corduroy jacket?
WOW
valerief
(53,235 posts)Swede Atlanta
(3,596 posts)I fully support the assertion that for-profit businesses that take advantage of our free-market, all of the infrastructure such as highways, water/sewer, public utilities, a work force that is generally educated in public schools, and in most cases enjoy limited liability under our laws, should NOT be able to pick and choose the health insurance coverage they wish to offer an employee based on religious beliefs.
Today it is family planning/birth control to which they are opposed. Tomorrow? As was pointed out in the clip, some individuals don't believe in any form of medicine (preventive or acute), don't believe in transfusions, believe that HIV/AIDS is God's punishment for immoral behavior, are opposed to any form of surgery, etc.
If the Court holds that for-profit businesses (let's not just limit this to a business that is incorporated but other forms of private enterprise from LLPs, LLLC, etc.) may limit the types of coverage for which they will pay based on religious beliefs, many, many employees will be negatively affected.
Large publicly-traded companies won't be raising such concerns or limiting coverage for religious reasons. There are undoubtedly some that are unhappy with some of the minimum care requirements of the ACA. But in large part I don't see them being the issue.
The issue will be companies of any size that are owned by one or only a few shareholders (so-called "closely-held corporations" . The owners of some of these companies undoubtedly do hold strong religious beliefs that conflict with some of the minimum coverage provisions of the ACA. Others will simply raise a belief in an effort to be difficult or deny their employees something.
But the religious challenge to the ACA is just a trojan horse. If they can succeed on this then the field is wide open for them to hold that they don't hire women to do a "man's work" because she should be at home barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen cuz that's what the Bible says. They can say they cannot hire a handicapped person because those with mental or physical challenges are that way because of God's will. They can say they don't have to hire an LGBT person or a person that may appear to be LGBT because it is an abomination.
They will use this religious trojan horse on contraception to usher in legalized discrimination on an unending scale.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Are absolutely right.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)"... making professed religious doctrine superior to the law of the land would make everyone a law unto himself." --SCJ Scalia
p.s. I saw a copy of a longer version of the quote yesterday somewhere but I can't find it now.
raging moderate
(4,292 posts)I am sure that I read somewhere last year that the White House had worked out a deal in which the health insurance companies agreed to pick up the cost of contraceptives because it would lower their payouts for the health problems resulting from pregnancy. If that is true, then these companies don't even have the case they keep saying they have. They are not being asked to GIVE this coverage to their employees, but only to ALLOW others to give it to their employees. Doesn't this sound right?
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)February 2013
Obama administration changes controversial birth control coverage rule to appease religious groups
Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014387550
White House denies contraception exemption to private businesses
Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/121885915
Cresent City Kid
(1,621 posts)In reality the owner is the one with the beliefs, which are protected up to the point at which they collide with someone else's. Why don't we just go all the way and let companies vote?
Here in San Antonio we had additions to our non-discrimination laws that extended protection to LGBT. The resistance made the same argument, that the new laws restricted religious freedom. They do not have the same understanding of freedom as I do. Freedom is not like a pogo stick where everyone can jump as high as they want without affecting anyone else. Freedom is like your front yard, yours ends where your neighbor's begins. Religious freedom allows you to be offended by others with different beliefs. It does not entitle you to live in a world that doesn't offend you, or to actively work to create one.
Pterodactyl
(1,687 posts)nikto
(3,284 posts)Corporations don't serve US.
WE serve THEM.
Corporations are The Master.
Just like this:
1:42--Corporate America's statement of reality.
rock
(13,218 posts)It's a really stupid statement, much like those produced by early computer programs that could spew out syntactically good English and occasionally make some sense. This would not be one of those times.