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Related: About this forumMichael Moore slams Obama
He is not happy at all with his performance as Prez
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NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)We all know how connected MM is to GM and Flint, etc., so I'll give him a little break for being passionate, but not for being ignorant.
To blame Obama for the collapse of the auto and other domestic industries is ignorant.
To blame Obama for not saving Detroit is even worse, it was never his mission, stated or otherwise, to do so.
He saved two of the big three and managed to force them to finally improve fuel economy at the same fucking time.
No credit from MM for this.
Remembered just for being the first black president.
Utter bullshit from an angry and, in this case, petty little man.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)
daschess1987
(192 posts)But I don't blame Michael Moore (or anyone else from that area) for feeling that way.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)I do. Michael Moore isn't a dummy. He's smarter than most people. He's also a savvy political animal, because he's gotten quite wealthy off of politics. So he knows that what he says, a lot of people will hear and most will listen to him.
In light of the above, it is unwise for him to criticize the head of the Democratic Party two months out of the election - unless, of course, he really doesn't want Democrats to hold on to the Senate. Just think of it this way ... as a very left Liberal, when does Michael Moore make the most money? When Republicans are in control trashing this country or when Democrats are in control trying to fix the mess?
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)So many people I've talked to express bitterness and cynicism
about hope and change the slogan.
People for some reason thought it was Obama who was going
to provide the hope and the change. Well that ain't how it
works, folks.
The hope is there, innate in all of us. And we are the ones
who have to make the changes. Obama never said he could
or would do it for us. Yet people are disappointed. Well,
disappointment is the guaranteed product of unrealistic
expectations.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)And I think most of us underestimated the resistance he'd get from an obstructionist congress with filibuster power and high numbers of Republicans.
He's not a dictator.
Veilex
(1,555 posts)Spot on. 
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)
bvar22
(39,909 posts)*
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Democrats in the Senate were as obstructionist as the Republicans - but in a kinder, gentler way. Democrats in the House under Speaker Pelosi, however, were behind this president and that's why 440 of her bills were stalled and killed in the Senate - under Harry Reid's "my friends on the other side of the aisle" leadership.
House Democrats had more to lose than Senate Democrats, but it were Senate Democrats who more often than not sided with Republicans in killing bills that would have helped the American people.
cleduc
(653 posts)What the nay-sayers don't understand is that this election has never been about me. It's been about you.
For eighteen long months, you have stood up, one by one, and said enough to the politics of the past. You understand that in this election, the greatest risk we can take is to try the same old politics with the same old players and expect a different result. You have shown what history teaches us - that at defining moments like this one, the change we need doesn't come from Washington. Change comes to Washington. Change happens because the American people demand it - because they rise up and insist on new ideas and new leadership, a new politics for a new time.
2008 victory Speech
http://obamaspeeches.com/E11-Barack-Obama-Election-Night-Victory-Speech-Grant-Park-Illinois-November-4-2008.htm
This victory alone is not the change we seek – it is only the chance for us to make that change. And that cannot happen if we go back to the way things were. It cannot happen without you.
Americans voted for Obama but they didn't vote for "new ideas and new leadership, a new politics for a new time" in Congress. They brought most of the same old cronies back.
Obama said time and again, he wasn't the change. That the change had to come from the people. He knew Congress had to change but that he alone could not change Congress - it had to come from the people.
And he said that stuff all long - he didn't wait until the end of his campaign to spring it on people.
The American people didn't deliver.
hibbing
(10,517 posts)Totally agree that the responsibility for hope and change is on us, he did offer inspiration to many, me included. Some opportunities lost, of course. And yes, the idiot nutjobs in Congress have done everything they can to prevent progress.
Peace
zeemike
(18,998 posts)And disillusionment the product when we are told it is our own fault, that the leader we chose was never going to make a diference...it is all our own fault...we should have known that it was all just words.
We are like someone in a dysfunctional relashionship...we must constantly make excuses for the bad behaviour...
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)I'll have to go back and check my notes, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't my slogan, so don't tell me I am at fault for having those expectations.
It isn't all as binary as Michael is making it. I can certainly find good things Obama has done that would, loosely speaking, qualify for "hope and change." But in the big scheme of things, not so much. Too many capitulations. Too many sell-outs to the money changers.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)He did not create a slogan, and then talk about it. I
suppose his campaign people took those words and
made them a slogan for the campaign.
Remember the title of his book "The Audacity of Hope."
I just learned a new word, kind of off topic but not
really: apocaloptimism. Which I understand to mean
that people understand how fucked and wrong so many
things are, and in fact how little power each of us may
have day to day -- yet are hopeful anyway, because that is
the deepest nature of a human being: hopefulness.
I certainly don't blame Obama for not meeting my own
hopes and expectations.
daschess1987
(192 posts)People should also remember that the entire agenda for the Republican party has been to stop everything President Obama tries to accomplish.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)
mimi85
(1,805 posts)Although he's a petty, BIG man. He's never happy or content with anyone or anything. I usually skip Bill Maher when he's on. Though Maher is getting on my nerves as well. He doesn't LISTEN, he either interrupts or is reading what his next question should be.
Piss on Moore.
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)musta been a bad day 
clearly not an ACA fan either shame on Mike. I don't always agree with Mike but when I do it makes a good point. Second 4 years is always shit compared to the first. But compared to Mittens. it could be much worse (thats Hillary) Hillary & Mittens sitting in a tree KISSSING...
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)was just to make sure he could get re-elected and enact the New New Deal. So that was another lie - he's even more republican this term than the first.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)How have you helped to make those promises come true?
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)what has he done at all in the last 5?
From a brilliant social critic he has now become a low level crank.
And that's sad.
SunDrop23
(2,109 posts)
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)still_one
(98,883 posts)
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)Real reason so many on the left preferred Bush to Gore----they knew that their careers as liberal journalists would prosper if they had a reactionary in the White House to complain about. Since they themselves live in ivory towers they did not care about the people who would suffer. Sorry to say it, but it is true.
d_b
(7,463 posts)and helping out wall street.
jonjensen
(168 posts)Michael Moore radio talk show host mike malloy and others on the far left want president obama to go harder to the left then he has. Those who disagree should make their case why he has not done so.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)as evidenced by 2010.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)if it meant that a big majority of the people would follow
happily in that direction.
Growing up through the sixties & seventies, my perspective
is that when you pull hard to the left, too fast, there's an
equal and opposite effect; I'm sure it has something to
do with physics; it gives fuel to the opposing powers;
misunderstanding and rancor flourish; the center can not hold.
Many good honest and well-meaning people still associate the
"left" with the bomb-building activists and tripping hippies of
the sixties (I was one), the dissing of American soldiers who
had gone to Vietnam, vilification of the military in general, I
did that, I moved to Canada, I said fuck you to my parents'
values and their world, with absolutely no love or respect for
them, or what they'd been through. I'm pretty sure I wasn't
an exception; and there were wounds on both sides that
still haven't healed.
There was a vast ocean of misunderstanding between generations
and cultures. The South was vilified, maybe rightfully politically, but
socially it was so wrong, it turned a whole culture conservative, is
(ONLY) my opinion.
Obama's point of view, I am very sure (because he's said it outright),
is that we are all American citizens, we all deserve a voice and for
our point of view to be heard, for there to be healthy debate between
cultures and political rivals. He seeks stability and balance, wisdom
and progress. He has a hopeful view of humanity. He is working as
hard as he can. How do you think any one of us would be doing in his
place?
If the far left is disappointed, then what do you think would
please them? and how will you help make that happen?
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)election trouncings. Corporate healthcare, corporate schools, Arne Duncan, Paulson and Geithner, fracking, "all of the above", torture, Bush tax cuts extended, offshore drilling, TPP, H1 visas, backing off of immigration reform, ...
If the president had campaigned honestly in 2008, many people wouldn't feel abandoned.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)rightwing whackos. To expect Obama to be or go "Left" is foolish, notwithstanding Obama's false face in 2008 and 2012.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)1)A MANDATE for every American to BUY Health Insurance from a For Profit vendor,
&
2)BILLIONS in subsidies to the For Profit Health Insurance Industry...
...would YOU have voted him?
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)His populist campaign sure took me in though
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)Many people see no dishonesty in this man. None of them
feel disappointed in him, or abandoned. I'm one of them,
I think there are many others here on DU. How is this
possible? Do you think your point of view is objective?
Do you think this is a healthy approach to politics, and
life in general -- ie, for people who consider themselves
activists -- pinning hope on somebody else fixing their
life for them?
People complain so much, but don't even try to find
workable solutions.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)To look at a man who promised "change", then gave us corporate healthcare, corporate schools, Arne Duncan, Paulson and Geithner, fracking, "all of the above", torture, Bush tax cuts extended, offshore drilling, TPP, H1 visas, backing off of immigration reform, ... and saying, "he's the bestest ever, and I love him, and anyone who doesn't isn't being objective" is to do irreparable harm to the country.
Try as I might, I can't get real healthcare to the US. That's the job of someone like the president. Who said he would. Then didn't even try. How is it possible that you can look back at the healthcare debacle and then "see no dishonesty in this man". You have got to be willfully blind.
I guess you forgot to label the sarcastic part of your post. My life is pretty good, thanks. Better than many of the organized labor members, teachers, tech workers, environmentalists, pacifists, and assorted liberals who were deserted by Obama after they voted for him. Definitely not in need of "fixing". But if the person we vote for because of his campaign then abandons nearly all of it in favor of the corporations, why vote? And if we vote for him anyway, why are you blaming us?
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)Multiple so-called realities, at odds with one another.
Is it possible that your perspective is subjective, rather
than universally true?
I don't see him, the man himself, his time in office,
his efforts and successes while there, the same way as
you do.
I am not claiming to be right. I am firm in trusting my
perceptions, generally, but I've been wrong. If time
proves me wrong I have no problem with that.
You are unhappy about Obama, he hasn't even tried, you
say; he has deserted his supporters, you say; he has
broken his promises. This is a sad perspective and I
do not share it. But I also don't want to argue with it
as you're entitled to your own opinion. I don't know
what you mean by "...why are you blaming us?"
I think this president is a great man, and I rarely say
that of anyone. I am sad he has had such a shitty
congress, and so many obstructions to what he himself
hoped to do in office.
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)What I like.
His work for gay rights.
His personality.
I can't think of anything else.
His failures.
Failure to press Eric the Useless to prosecute Wall Street bankers.
Failure to press Eric the Useless to prosecute Bush war criminals.
Failure to follow through with his promise to re-negotiate NAFTA
Pressing on with Trans-Pacific partnership (NAFTA on Steroids).
Failure to restrain N.S.A. and wiretapping.
He didn't need Republican approval for any but the third one.
I can't think of anything else?
You guys?
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Before the gay rights happened, you had 2 groups here. The first bashed him for doing nothing on the issue, and the second heaped praise on him for doing nothing on the issue (he's playing chess by letting the courts decide instead of doing it himself! That's HUGH!!).
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)with a case of The Gay?
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)No biggie, right?
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)I trust our President implicitly. He is a compassionate man with two adorable daughters, a cute dog, and a strong wife without sleeves.
Anyone who doesn't trust our President is a racist, a tie-dyed, Birkenstock-wearing leftist freak who's stuck in a Sixties time warp, a stealth Republican, or an enabler of that millionaire egomaniac Ralph Nader.
What other possible explanation could there be?
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)Very few people I can say that about.
What a bunch of complaining in this thread! Fox must
be so happy.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)His intelligence, his thoughtfulness; his warmth and sense of
humor. His sincerety and relentless efforts in the face of
unprecedented obstruction.
Oh not just obstruction. Cruel, nasty people, going on
television, forming committees, so much ugliness, so many
insults.
Have you noticed they can't work with him? Do you know why?
It's the same reason that Chuck Todd was reduced to
a pathetic little man in the course of ten minutes of that
interview.
It's because the president is an honest man, a brilliant man,
with a clear conscience, and dignity unmatched by anyone
I've ever seen in that office.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)From celebs to Congressmen to WalMart to GM (Roger) -- what makes his movies work is the confrontation in them.
This 'how do you want to be remembered' bit is "slamming" but it is also baiting and prodding. A head game played out in media.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)Interesting...
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)
20score
(4,769 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 10, 2014, 10:15 PM - Edit history (1)
biggest supporters. On every single (important) issue where Obama should have done more, should have done less, or should have done nothing, his supporters - the ones loyal to the party/president and not to ideals - shouted down those demanding that the right thing be done. And strangely enough, candidate Obama sided with the detractors - every - single - time.
This holds true with the Public Option, off-shore drilling, bombing Syria, NSA spying, supporting unions, prosecuting criminal bankers...and the list goes on. Barack Obama asked his supporters to make him do the right thing. Some of us tried, but there wasn't nearly enough of us.
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)The stance that won is the same one that will win if Hillary is Pres.
20score
(4,769 posts)supported the ideals he espoused, instead of just a small percentage. It would have given the right side a fighting chance. But millions just lay down or rabidly fought against reality. NSA spying is the perfect example.
Money won out, no doubt. But those who would have fought Bush on the same policies, denied those policies were a problem under Obama. Makes me ill and they shouldn't be let off the hook any more than those on the other side of the aisle.
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)So you click "sign" on the website petition. Call the legislative office. "Thank you. I will forward your concern to the congressman."
When millions of peeps went to the street to march against Cheney's war, did they give a shit?
If Obama cared, he could have asked for "pressure." Instead, the website for the following he had in '08 was dismantled.
You didn't hear from him again until '12. Gee, I wonder what happened in 2012?
Adam051188
(711 posts)doesn't matter if the president is black or white. black people in the u.s. still don't have enough money to be people.
big lu
(185 posts)How about you get control of that belly with a gastric bypass, begin exercising and eat something nutritious so that you can be alive and breathing 10 years from now?