"I believe marriage is a sacred bond between a man and a woman." -- Hillary Clinton in 2004.

[L0oniX]

Last edited Sun Jun 28, 2015, 06:10 PM - Edit history (1)

[Duckhunter935]

1. That's got to hurt a couple here

That have been posting Bernie attacks.

[L0oniX]

7. Bernie has not changed on this issue. Others have.

It's good that they have changed but I got to wonder if the change is because of politics as in ...say anything to get elected.

[still_one]

8. ok. I guess both sides have found a way around not posting something in the General Discussion:

Primaries group, and still get their political digs in then.

Appreciate the heads up

[olegramps]

19. I suppose that I am as guilty as Hilary.

I was of the same opinion ten years ago, but I have definitely changed my mind on this subject. I have proposed that religious organizations should not be able to perform weddings, but free to provide their religious rituals. In Europe, such as in the Netherlands, the state oversees the contractual agreement and then couples can choose to have a religious ceremony. I think that this would put the subject in a more proper light rather than attempting to blend what is a contractual agreement with religion making it two separate issues.

[rock]

2. This is an excellent example of how values within a culture change

Then this was the mores of the country. The culture has shifted in that relatively short time. Thanks for reminding us.

[djean111]

4. Yes, Hillary will shift her values any time she thinks voters have shifted. We get that.

[rock]

6. Psychic are we?

[MNBrewer]

47. It doesn't take psychic powers, merely the power of observation.

[rock]

54. So you can tell when she thinks voters have changed their minds

And you're not psychic?

[Autumn]

72. Don't need a psychic. Polls tell most politicians when to change their minds.

[L0oniX]

9. +1

[George II]

24. Isn't that what a leader does - implement policy that his/her constituents want?

[rock]

30. Yes

I thought as much. But why tell a couple of knobs?

[cprise]

65. That response looks great

next to Hillary's face.

[djean111]

33. So the weather-vane policy is great, and she stands, personally, for nothing. Okay.

[Mnpaul]

35. Real leaders don't jump on an issue only after it becomes popular

That sounds more like a follower. Real leaders drive the discussion on issues that aren't that popular but are the right thing to do.

[AZ Progressive]

43. In other words, she's not a real leader, she's just merely a politician

[cprise]

62. Not when its about protecting unpopular minorities from discrimination.

Instead Hillary advanced the idea that gay marriage detracted from married hetero people, as if it were some zero-sum equation where things were given to people at the expense of other people.

[virtualobserver]

77. if you think about it, that is actually the opposite of a leader

An actual leader does the right thing, then persuades the people that it is right.

[6chars]

11. Evolution

:large

[Wilms]

17. .

^C^A^L^C^U^L^A^T^I^O^N

[BeanMusical]

55. +1

[cprise]

59. That is apt...

But no moreso than Hillary's 'H' which points to the Right.

[A Simple Game]

21. The question is, why did the value within the culture change? Was it the right thing to do?

Was Hillary wrong to believe the way she did in the first place? By your little happy gay pride flag I have to conclude you think she was wrong.

So if this was the mores of the country and this is what Hillary believed has she now changed because the mores have changed? If so then she is following and not leading, that's a bad bullet item on a resume when applying to be the leader of a Country.

We must always questions people's beliefs and motives when they are against civil rights, always.

[rock]

57. You seem to be confusing leading and representing the constintuency

OK, it is complicated. But I'll try to explain as clearly as I can. Whether it is right for a politician to lead the constituency or follow it does not have a simple-minded rule. You may want to watch this episode of "The Andy Griffith Show" starting about 18:55.

Aunt Bee adopts the approach that I call, "What the people want the people shall get!" This is in general the proper solution. But in this episode, Howard, shows that sometimes it's necessary to lead the people and offer an alternative solution.

If you think I'm off my rocker (pun intended), that's OK. Go about you're business and don't worry about it.

[cprise]

63. And also confusing the plight of unpopular minorities with programs and initiatives

...stuff that politicians "give" to people as a part of some material goal. When unpopular groups have their civil rights trampled, politicians should not jump on bandwagons that make those groups look like 'attackers' or 'takers' or anything of the sort.

Politicians who treat these basic rights issues like just any other issue -- like subsidies for new research or development or government-provided service -- are willing to play very dangerous games with our lives. Its no surprise to me this fickle blindness comes from Mrs. NAFTA; a person who quietly served on the Walmart Board of Directors while the company attacked unions and worker rights.

That's a good clip, BTW.

[A Simple Game]

64. You're right someone is confused. You seem to be equating

someone running to be a Representative with someone that is running for President. One represents, bet you can't guess which one, and the other is the leader of a nation. Bet you can't guess what the leader of a nation does.

[rock]

67. I didn't think you'd get it

It's hard.

[A Simple Game]

68. One of us doesn't get that the President is the LEADER of the free world. Not the follower,

not the pollster, not the finger in the wind person, the LEADER.

One of us doesn't get that a good leader must know the right thing to do before most others even get out of bed.

No, it's not that hard.

[delrem]

70. A nit to pick with your rhetoric.

e.g. GWB wasn't "the leader of the free world", unless you want to redefine the term "free".

He was the POTUS and, as as the MSM likes to drill into us, the Commander in chief of the US Army and Navy.
GWB wasn't elected by anyone except US citizens. I'm not a citizen of the USA and I resent the endless repetition of a mantra that corrupt or simply inept politicians like GWB are "leaders of the free world". We have our own problems in Canada, Europe, Africa, Asia, etc., and US politicians like GWB were not elected by the rest of the world to solve them for us - much as politicans like GWB like to use military power to impose their "solutions".

[A Simple Game]

88. And a good nit it is. I don't normally call our Presidents "leader of the free world"

but that is a title often given by the media and others. As for the example you use, I have never referred to him as my President nor was he even legally elected the first time and probably not the second time either.

My point was to state that a President should be a leader not a follower, poll taker, or hold their finger to the wind.

As for Bush, I would never foist him upon anyone nor did I want him myself.

[delrem]

94. Heh, that's EXACTLY why I gave that example! n/t

[Fairgo]

87. I'd vote for Howard Sprague

Or maybe Earnest T Bass. Now theres a man who spoke his mind.

[Frances]

52. Me too

I think that Hillary and those of us who came to understand this issue over a period of time deserve credit for changing our minds.

[still_one]

3. so? The President also used to believe that, and has changed 180 degrees on that as has Hillary

[cantbeserious]

5. Duplicity - The Video Never Lies

eom

[jalan48]

10. Hillary is intelligent, educated and a person who experienced the 60's.

To see her speak like this as late as 2004 makes me seriously question her values and sincerity.

[Fred Sanders]

13. As late as 11 years ago....math is your friend.

[jalan48]

20. That's the point isn't it? Only 11 years ago she was speaking like this.

[Fred Sanders]

25. Only 11 years ago is the point and she was speaking like this because the nation agreed with her.

Only 11 years ago.

[jalan48]

36. I guess if you want a candidate that is status quo then Hillary is your woman.

Personally, Id like to see someone who has a vision of the future, a leader, not someone who simply reflects the beliefs and prejudices of the masses.

[6chars]

37. maybe someone close came out to her since then

when it becomes personal and not just theoretical, a lot of people have changed their views.

[navarth]

66. So it had to apply to her before she would reconsider?

Surely not...?

[L0oniX]

92. To be fair Her Iraq vote was 12 years ago.

[L0oniX]

40. How many years ago was her Iraq vote?

Last edited Sun Jun 28, 2015, 12:07 PM - Edit history (1)

[Fred Sanders]

12. I believe folks can sincerely have a change of mind and heart. Thanks for pointing this out.

Look at the Dixie Swastika...the whole nation had a change of heart and mind!

[L0oniX]

14. They better ...if they want more votes.

[totodeinhere]

32. Sure, some people can sincerely have a change of heart. But I don't think that applies to Clinton.

Her "change of heart" was purely political. The only thing that changed with her was her political calculations. I would rather support someone like Bernie who has supported gay rights during his entire long political career, not just recently.

[Fred Sanders]

34. Of course we all are entitled to our personal assessments of trust of others. Trust IS the issue.

[ibewlu606]

15. Rec'd

The political winds are changing, and Hillary "finger in the air" Clinton is astute enough to know when to shift her views. If there is enough groundswell against the corporate takeover of America, she will abandon her corporate masters.........at least until she is sworn in, and then it's business as usual in prostituting herself to the highest corporate bidder.

[onehandle]

16. Our Nominee!

And next President!

Thanks for promoting our Democratic Choice!

[NorthCarolina]

18. At that point in time her social "evolution" had yet to pass this test:

[L0oniX]

39. LMAO

[BeanMusical]

56. Lol!

[TBF]

22. I'm glad she changed her view -

now if only she would progress on economic issues.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

50. She will....

As soon as she's raised enough.

[George II]

23. Is there a point to your 11 year old video? How long did it take for you to find this?

[Fred Sanders]

26. It is a positive sign when such non-contextualized and antique attacks on another comes to this.

To answer your question - Fox?

[GeorgeGist]

89. Antique ...

Now that's just obtuse.

[Duckhunter935]

28. probably like 10 seconds

there are also the other ones out there. She is good at sticking her finger in the winds and saying what people want to here in her closed invitation only events.

[totodeinhere]

27. If gay marriage had not become politically popular would she have changed her homophobic

position? Who is naive enough to believe that she would? Contrast her with Bernie who had the political courage to support full gay rights back when it was a politically risky position.

[Duckhunter935]

29. actions speak louder than words!

She has done nothing except carry out the presidents executive orders

[L0oniX]

38. ^^^this^^^

[Hekate]

41. People who claim they never had to grow & evolve on any issue will also claim.....

.....they were born potty trained.

[corkhead]

42. That was what was politically expedient then...

this >>><<< is what's politically expedient now.

[zeemike]

44. I just wonder if Bernie had said that 10 years ago

Whether he would have been portrayed as evolving or whether he would be called a homophobe.
And if he had voted for the war a war monger or just misled?

Politics can produce some strange thinking.

[iandhr]

45. JFK was once a member of America First...

... LBJ used to oppose civil rights before the civl rights act and the voting rights act. Elizabeth Warren was once a Republican.


Peoples views and out looks change for a better and we should welcome those people who once didn't see the light.

Fridays ruling wouldn't have been possible if people who once opposed equality didn't change their minds.

[riversedge]

46. and most Republicans are still stuck in the Dark Ages and do not want

to progress. I am glad Hillary has advanced in her thinking (along with Obama and countless others in the USA).

[wolfie001]

48. If she's the Dem candidate.....

....I'm voting for her but all things being equal, that was no "Profile in Courage" moment.

[Curmudgeoness]

49. Any way the wind blows.

But I am still glad that she finally came around. Just makes me wonder though.

[willbee]

51. She's a chamelion

and a very wealthy one. She'll be whoever you want her to be.
However, when you wash out the hair dye, strip off the outer layers, and get down to the grit, she's the same old leopard with the same old big money spots.
Hillary Clinton is one of the main reasons people should vote for Bernie Saunders.

[Helen Borg]

53. She'd say anything...

That is the sad truth...

[BeanMusical]

58. This speech is nauseating.

[cprise]

61. Her newer speeches are worse, I think

The way she half-heartedly borrows progressive slogans and points makes me cringe. The Fox news types attack Hillary whenever she does this, because its easy to tell that she and her people are not capable of adequately defending those positions. They sense the insincerity like sharks sense blood in the water; She is the type of 90s 'liberal' they are used to getting their way with.

[L0oniX]

75. ~

[cprise]

60. She leans neocon whenever she can, and liberal when she must.

n/t

[YOHABLO]

86. A B S O L U T E L Y !!

Who do you think she's going to work for on foreign policy, the people of the U.S or the Pentagon?

[zentrum]

69. For a sophisticated woman of the world….

….seems odd to let public opinion/mores decide on civil rights.

Glad Bernie has always had clarity on the difference between what's popular and what's constitutionally right.

[delrem]

71. Wow. She sure dressed the part for that humdinger of a religious sermon. nt

[DonCoquixote]

73. wow

certain people that will yell in your face and accuse you of homophobia are SILENT now. Boomarking to use when I argue with said people again.

[Doctor_J]

74. There doesn't seem to be any issue she won't flip-flop on

That's why I believe nothing she says while campaigning. Her only voters will be those who want to vote for a woman - any woman - and those like corporate rule in the US (e. g. those who think that Gingrinchcare is all we deserve). What a disaster for the party and democracy in general.

[bluestateguy]

76. It was 11 years ago. Let it go.

nt

[L0oniX]

91. Her Iraq vote was 12 years ago ...let's let that go too.

[pa28]

78. And again here she is with Chris Matthews.

Chris Matthews: "Do you think New York should recognize gay marriage."

Hillary Clinton: "No."

Forward to about 2:10 for the full exchange.

It's nice that people evolve. For the benefit of the skeptical maybe she should offer a full explanation of her turnaround on a position she previously called "sacred".

[tavalon]

79. I'm not a supporter of Presidential candidate Clinton (though if she wins the primary...)

That said, I am pleased at how many people are changing their minds about various equality terms these days. Kudos to those who have changed their previously incorrect stances. Welcome to the flock. The more the better.

[Maedhros]

82. The biggest problem with this speech is that Hillary chose to use Christian Conservative

messaging - "marriage is a sacred bond between a man and a woman."

Personally, I think she is insincere and was simply pandering to Christian Conservatives because polling at the time was stressing how much America was a "Christian nation." And I don't like that she would pander to the Right and throw the LGBTQ base under the bus.

Knowing that she is affiliated with The Family, a Christian Conservative organization, one must at least consider that her current stance is also insincere.

[silenttigersong]

81. Whats she talking bout

savings bonds,lol.Sacred money,seems to me Bill and Hillary are having an affair with Goldman Sachs.Hope you die hard Clinton supporters are not too offended as its only comedy.

[redstateblues]

83. I was not in favor of gay marriage 11 years ago.

I am now. I have evolved. Humans do that. I am a lifelong Democrat. Does that make me an evil hypocrite? I wasn't running for anything. Some things don't change over night. Some eyes take longer to open than others. This purity test crap is getting old.

[silenttigersong]

84. The point is

she had an opportunity to step outside her political comfort zone.She is popular because of name regonition ,therefore she had ability to influence.Or spend some "political capitol."

[YOHABLO]

85. Oh well, that's what everybody thought in 2004, right? Why we've all ''evolved'' on this

haven't we?

[L0oniX]

90. Yea we've evolved from those voting for the Iraq war way way way back in 2003 too.

[Indepatriot]

93. Pure, unadulterated oppurtunism. I'd bet a hundred bucks she

believed in marriage equality back then and simply parroted the "safe" answer. IMNSHO this makes her even more unfit to lead. Detestable.