9-Year-Old Catholic Raped, Excommunicated for Abortion; Rapist Still Catholic

[celtics23]

[get the red out]

1. But you have to understand

Raping kids is an act the Church is so used to covering up, how can they actually put blame where it is due?

[L0oniX]

2. Why does anyone belong to this church? I don't get it.

[pnwmom]

4. Why do people post false stories here? I don't get it.

[pnwmom]

3. This 3 year old story was false then and is still false. Why are you posting it?

The 9 year old victim was never ex-communicated, and no one ever claimed she had been.

An Archbishop had claimed that the adults (the doctors and the girl's mother) had been automatically excommunicated (just by their actions, not by a Church action), but the Bishops decided that was not true.

http://www.france24.com/en/20090314-bishops-admit-mistake-annul-excommunication-abortion-row-minor-rape-brazil

AFP - Brazilian bishops have said the excommunication of the mother and doctors of a nine-year-old girl who had an abortion after being raped was wrong and would not be applied.

The National Conference of Bishops of Brazil (CNBB) decided Thursday that the child's mother acted "under pressure from the doctors" who said the girl, pregnant with twins, would die if she carried the babies to term.

The body's secretary-general, Dimas Lara Barbosa, told reporters the mother therefore could not be excommunicated. "We must take the circumstances into consideration," he said.

As for the doctors, there was no clear case that they should be expelled from the church either, he said contrary to the position taken by archbishop Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, who last week announced the excommunications.

[msanthrope]

5. The nine-year old is excommunicated under Canon 1398, latae sententiae.

If you've got something explaining how the declaration of excommunication latae sententiae applies to millions of women, but not this one, please provide it.

[pnwmom]

11. I did post it, as you know. It wasn't the mother; it was the grandmother who originally

had been said to have been excommunicated.

None of the Bishops ever suggested that the CHILD had been automatically excommunicated, even the one who said originally that the mother of the girl (the grandmother) and the doctors had been. The child hadn't made the decision for her medical care, so she was never considered responsible.

And with respect to the adults, Canon law also allowed the Bishops to say that extenuating circumstances means that the grandmother and the doctors had not been excommunicated, automatically or otherwise.

http://www.france24.com/en/20090314-bishops-admit-mistake-annul-excommunication-abortion-row-minor-rape-brazil

AFP - Brazilian bishops have said the excommunication of the mother and doctors of a nine-year-old girl who had an abortion after being raped was wrong and would not be applied.

[msanthrope]

21. You posted nothing to contradict Canon 1398. If you have something that

contradicts the plain meaning of said Canon, let me know.

She was excommunicated automatically at the end if the abortion. That's what Canon 1398 directs. Read it.

[pnwmom]

22. The law doesn't apply to a child who is under 17.

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0901197.htm

In an interview with the Italian newspaper La Stampa March 7, the cardinal underlined that according to canon law anyone who procures an abortion incurs automatic excommunication, meaning there is no need for an official decree from church authorities.

However, canon law indicates several conditions -- for example, not yet having turned 17 years old -- that would render an individual exempt from the penalty of excommunication.

[rug]

13. It doesn't apply to this woman because she's a child.

[pnwmom]

16. Thank you. Or more precisely, "this female because she's a child."

[msanthrope]

20. Show me where it says that. I'm quite serious. nt

[pnwmom]

23. All of the reliable media stories that refer to the "mother" are talking about the "grandmother."

(This video not being in that group.) You have to read carefully to understand that.

[rug]

24. Canon 98.

[DeSwiss]

8. It's not a FALSE story.....

...if the Church did in fact excommunicate her and then turned around later and ''annulled'' it (according to your own source). And they did so only because they got heat from the president of the country. So they turn around and used the justification for reversing their own archaic beliefs (this one time) for the very same reasons they claim they won't approve abortion for anyone else -- because the life of the 9-year old would have been at risk if she carried twin babies to term.

Please stop making excuses for these worthless people, will you? Thanking you in advance.

[pnwmom]

12. The story is false. The CHILD is not the "mother" who is referred to as

having been automatically ex-communicated. It was the baby's grandmother and the doctors to whom the original Bishop referred. It was recognized from the beginning that the child had not been the one to make the decision about her medical care -- therefore only the adults had responsibility.

And the word "annulment" does not mean "reversal." It means that the Bishops decided that no automatic excommunication had ever taken place, for the reasons they explained.

[DeSwiss]

26. CORRECTION: An annulment is a way to ''say'' something never took place. :-/ n/t

[freshwest]

10. Apparently, the rabid pro-life Tea Baggers here don't agree with Brazil:

The National Conference of Bishops of Brazil (CNBB) decided Thursday that the child's mother acted "under pressure from the doctors" who said the girl, pregnant with twins, would die if she carried the babies to term.

Rape, incest and even the death of the mother attempting to carry to term as reasons for abortion are being argued in this country by the Tea Baggers state by state.

And the most outrageous laws are being passed. Maybe we should invite some Brazilians here to show us what is right and what is wrong in this matter. They have their problems, but the Tea Baggers and Paulites are worse than the RCC.

[pnwmom]

17. We have enough to worry about from real threats -- in the U.S. -- without having to exaggerate

situations that occur in other countries.

I'm fully pro-choice, but I don't think we do ourselves any favors by twisting facts. The truth is bad enough.

[bonniebgood]

6. But, But But Obama sat in "that" church for 20 years

can you imagine if the Rev. Wright's church carried this kind of baggage?

[xtraxritical]

7. Catholics are selling off assets everywhere

to make up for the sharp decline in attendance and collections in their churches. Let's hope the trend gets legs.

[Deep13]

9. Hitler was not excommunicated either.

None of the high-ranking Nazis were except for Goebbels, but only because he married a Protestant woman.

And that's the point. One only gets excommunicated for purely religious offenses, not worldly ones. So, to be clear, committing an act of rape, systematic child rape or murdering 20 million people are NOT offenses worthy of excommunication in the eyes of the RC Church. Aborting the rapist's fetus and marrying a non-Catholic are. So why exactly does this church or Ratzinger especially have any credibility at all on moral issues?

[rug]

14. Godwin under 10.

[FiveGoodMen]

15. Fuck Godwin AND his followers.

We can discuss any part of world history whenever we like.

No, we do not lose the argument as a result.

Repeat: FUCK GODWIN.

[freshwest]

18. AND Fuck Ron Paul AND all his followers!

Just had to add that, in case anyone thought that libertarian nit wit had any business forcing his theocracy down our throats.

[FiveGoodMen]

19. No argument there

[rug]

25. Here, this is for you.

"How to post about Nazis and get away with it"

http://wiki.killfile.org/projects/usenet/faqs/godwin/

[FiveGoodMen]

27. Very interesting. Thanks.

Still...

Lots of comparisons to Nazis/Hitler are valid and having a rule saying 'you lose if you mention him' is not a good idea.

[Deep13]

28. That is not a denial. nt