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Related: About this forumBBC Panorama - Euro 2012 - Stadiums Of Hate (WTF?)
Published on May 28, 2012
BBC Panorama investigates Polish and Ukrainian racists and ultras, just days before the kick off to Euro 2012. "Euro 2012 - Stadiums Of Hate"
With just days to go before the kick-off of the Euro 2012 championships, Panorama reveals shocking new evidence of racist violence and anti-semitism at the heart of Polish and Ukrainian football and asks whether tournament organiser UEFA should have chosen both nations to host the prestigious event.
Reporter Chris Rogers witnesses a group of Asian fans being attacked on the terraces of a Ukrainian premier league match and hears anti-Semitic chanting at games in Poland. And with exclusive access to a far right group in Ukraine which recruits and trains football hooligans to attack foreigners, Panorama asks: how safe will travelling football teams and their supporters be at this summer's European festival of football?
lunasun
(21,646 posts)NavyDavy
(1,224 posts)yeah these reich wing nazi pigs train all the time and they meet up with other thugs and have fights.....then they trawl the streets looking for brown skinned foreigners and they just kick the crap out of the poor immigrants it made me sick, I wanted to jump thru the tv and strangle ever last one of the thugs.....
oldironside
(1,248 posts)There is still time to shift the games to other countries. Germany, England and Italy all have the stadia and other facilities to host games at short notice.
The single worst event in Poland's history is the Nazi invasion and subsequent occupation, and yet you can still see these arseholes raising their right arms. Those who forget history...
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)who found out their recent ancestors were Jewish
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315093/Polish-neo-Nazi-skinhead-couple-discover-JEWISH.html
SwissTony
(2,560 posts)Organising a tournament is a lot more than just having stadia available. (England certainly wouldn't want it. They have a little event called the Olympics coming up).
What about security, for example? And much of the accommodation will already have been booked by people with no intention of going to football matches.
Plus lots of fans have booked tickets, accomodation etc. Cancelling them is going to cost them money too.
But I agree with your title - it should never have gone to them.
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)If this was an anti-government rally (like Occupy Kiev or whatever) cops would be lined up around the block smashing skulls.
All people of common sense should boycott this UEFA as a statement.
I don't know much about soccer/football but I would not want one dime of my money going to support a league, team, or stadium that allowed this.
I nominate this for outrage of the day.
Just wow.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Aside from Panorama we've had lots of tv news coverage on this subject here in the UK. Families of our black players are unlikely to go.
Notwithstanding our record here for soccer violence in the past broadly speaking issues were never racial - just opposing firms up for it for a laugh, usually pre-arranged , the top boys having each others 'phone numbers for that purpose. Back in the day Cass who was Chelsea's Headhunter's top boy was / is black himself - he's long since retired now anyway.
oldironside
(1,248 posts)Just ask John Barnes about that.
I remember seeing a black guy on the North Bank terraces at Upton Park in the early 90s with a three foot exclusion zone around him. I was, I have to admit, too gutless to talk to him.
On a similar note, Germany are playing Israel in Leipzig on Thursday and a couple of my students raised the question of skinheads causing trouble there. Not impossible. Of course, the big difference is that if there is any hint of racist chanting the German police will come down like the proverbial ton of bricks.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)that what was originally just an anti-dress code , rejection of both mod and rocker attire . got adopted and misused by right wing hooligans. Our original skinheads bonded with the blacks through joint love of ska and reggae music.
Still the same in places.
oldironside
(1,248 posts)A bit like our national flag, eh?
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)that goes back to The League of St George - early seventies.
marble falls
(57,063 posts)SwissTony
(2,560 posts)The guy is basically side-on to the camera and the reporter. Forget "looking him in the eye", try 'looking in his general direction'!!! (maybe he smelled of elderberries)
His words aren't much better. Everyone's just pointing to the opposition??? Is everyone in the Ukraine right-handed? No lefties? No people who want to point with both hands??? Believe that and we're talking bridges going cheap.
Karpaty Chelsea
(1 post)This bloke was West Ham ICF not Chelsea Headhunters. Glaring error which shows your lack of knowledge. And, "back in the day" Chelsea's "firm" was racist. Heard of Combat 18?
KLimer
(2 posts)Imagine that every tourist won't visit London because of the riots. They might think its like that in London every day. While that does not happen. As in people have more common sense than that and know that it was an isolated incident. What BBC Panorama did here is took footage some as old as 15 years ago, claiming that it is like that every day. In fact learn a little History. While rest of Europe was kicking out religious minorities, Poland (At that time Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth which included Ukraine) was receiving them with open arms. I am not saying racism ,antisemitism or xenophobia does not happen in Poland. They are isolated incidents as I pointed out earlier. What pisses me off though is countries like USA , Britain, Germany and Italy dare to call us racist and xenophobic. While forgetting the fact that if you are Gay , Black or Jewish in the state of Alabama you will get lynched. In Britain what kicked off the riots was a policeman killing a black youth in cold blood. Germany try going to the East without spotting a skinhead , without stating the obvious war the cause and the ramifications. In Italy when fans leaned that Mario Balotelli was black he was received with boos and racist gestures of their own.
All I'm saying is this. When walking on the streets of Warsaw its not uncommon to hear a lot of different languages. It is not uncommon to see people of different races. There are mosques , churches and synagogues in Warsaw. In Krakow 100 of thousands of English tourists come visiting without a single complaint.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)Hitler thought of them as untermenschen, or subhuman. They would have been slaves if Hitler had won the war.
Pavlovs_Dog
(5 posts)I am originally from Ukraine, Jewish, have been back several time and planning to go again soon for the Euro 2012.
While there is a grain of truth to the BBC report, it is mostly overblown, sensationalist, "let's be scared of Eastern Europe" kind of job. The "Ultras" shown in the report represent 0.00001% of the population and a small fringe of even the stadium-goers. The ones who start fights are degenerates who have nothing better to do and are more likely to attend their mediocre club team's games just for the "gang"/hooliganism aspect and are not even likely to show up to the actual Euro matches.
I have been to the World Cup in Germany in '06. Germany also has a neo-nazi, xenophobia problem, especially in former Eastern Germany, and football hooliganism, yet I barely saw any of those characters in my 3 weeks travelling there and they weren't the kind of fans who actually attended the WC games.
Someone suggested they should have never given the tournament to Ukraine/Poland & rather have it in Italy, England, or Germany. Really? Have you seen Lazio fans in Rome? Their whole team's support revolves around Mussolini and neo-fascism. Not to mention the non-ending bribery and corruption scandals their FA is having. And England? They make this documentary, yet what about riots that they had last year or that they're the birthplace of hooliganism? We're actually more afraid of drunk British fans at the Euro than anyone else. Also, Russia will host the WC in 2018 but they have worse football hooliganism and xenophobia. We'd pretty much have to limit the tournament hosting to Scandinavian countries if we follow this logic
In any case, if BBC really wanted to affect UEFA, why not make this documentary 3-4 years ago when something could have been changed? This tournament is less than 2 weeks away and they want fans and UEFA to drop everything NOW? After Ukraine/Poland have passed all the other hurdles like building stadiums, hotels, renovating airports, trains, etc.. This is nothing more than a scare tactic or jealousy from England that they've been getting shafted from hosting Euros or WCs for a number of years because of their fan problems.
Look, I am not dismissing that there is a hate-crime/xenophobia problem that exists and is not being dealt with as needed by police, and I was very outspoken on other forums that it needs to be addressed and police culture there needs to change. However, the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians (especially in Kiev & Lvov) are very educated, very welcoming of guests, very interested in meeting visitors from other countries and helping them. There is a bad apple though once in a while, especially those stupid kids, that they focussed on in the video. It would be like focussing on rednecks and KKK, or high urban crime rates in some cities and saying "Don't visit US! You'll get shot!". By that logic, World Cup should never have been hosted here in '94?
I'm sure Ukraine & Poland will do a great job. People there look forward to welcoming guests (maybe not drunk English hooligans so much) and showing the beauty and hospitality of both countries. It will be a great and safe tournament. If you sat home and watched Fox news all day you'd be afraid to step out of your home too, right?
KLimer
(2 posts)CNN did an investigation on its own and found BBC "... interviewed many people with balanced opinions and they complained today that their voices were not used in this program ..." So in short they chose the biggest bigots and lunatics on purpose.
Full article link below
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/29/sport/football/football-ukraine-poland-racism/index.html?eref=rss_europe&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fedition_europe+%28RSS%3A+Europe%29
tabatha
(18,795 posts)BBC? That is not good.
SwissTony
(2,560 posts)Euro 2012 was plunged into its first racism controversy after the black players in the Holland squad were subjected to monkey chants during an open practice session in the same city where England will also invite the public to watch them train on Friday.
Several hundred people targeted players such as Nigel de Jong and Gregory van der Wiel when 25,000 spectators attended the Dutch practice session at the Stadion Miejski, the home of Wisla Krakow.
The players, on the instructions of the captain, Mark van Bommel, responded by moving their training drills to the other side of the ground. "It is a real disgrace especially after getting back from Auschwitz [the Dutch squad had visited the concentration camp on Wednesday] that you are confronted with this," Van Bommel said. "We will take it up with Uefa and if it happens at a match we will talk to the referee and ask him to take us off the field."
The problems occurred as the players began the session by jogging a lap of the pitch only to be greeted at one end of the stadium with monkey noises and loud jeers. On the second circuit, they were even louder and it was then the players decided not to go around again. "At least now we know what we can encounter," the Holland coach, Bert van Marwijk, said with heavy cynicism. "Very atmospheric."
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jun/07/euro-2012-holland-racist-abuse
MichaelMcGuire
(1,684 posts)in UEFA Euro 2012. And Uruguay, United Arab Emirates and Senegal for 2012 Olympics.