Michigan: Dematic may move jobs to Mexico; will others follow?

[Donkees]

[Enthusiast]

1. Slap tariffs on their products.

[livingonearth]

2. And, if a repub tells you tariffs don't work...

remind them that their hero Reagan slapped tariffs on Japan over motorcycles and other products.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa107.html

[Trust Buster]

3. Tariffs won't work. Globalization is here to stay. Trying to stop it is tantamount to the

Republicans trying to stop social change.

[livingonearth]

5. I've been wanting to discuss this very thing with someone.

Why don't tariffs work? I'm willing to hear anyone out on this. I just want to know.

As to globalization being here to stay, I agree. However, hasn't it always been the case in one form or another? Trade between different nations has existed since the beginning of human history.

[Trust Buster]

6. Tariffs, as they've been traditionally employed, were meant to target countries who dump product

at below cost to destroy their American competitors. Now these companies are multi nationals. If you stick it to Carrier, you'd be hurting Carrier employees and stockholders here in the states. Our foreign competitors would like nothing more than for our government to declare a trade war against our own companies. I type this post out on my IPad. It would cost double what I paid for it if high tariffs were applied.

Second, The Republicans claim that, if we lower corporate taxes, then they'll bring jobs back. We rightfully point out that cheap Third World labor will still incentivize companies to continue to move jobs overseas. The same dynamic applies to tariffs. You can't tariff our way out of outsourcing. Third World labor is so cheap that even higher tariffs won't de-incentivize companies from finding the lowest labor country. All that would be achieved is that prices for gods like IPads will cost American consumers more.

[livingonearth]

7. A trade war against our own companies? How can a multi-national be considered one of "our own"?

Companies like Carrier don't care squat about America, or any other country for that matter. They just want the labor of the cheapest labor country, and the market of the best market country. Who they screw doesn't matter.

I wouldn't worry about a tariff hurting Carrier employees; Carrier is hurting their employees already. By outsourcing they are destroying not only their employees, but employee families as well. The stockholders and executives are more than happy to stick it to others for their own gain.

Maybe the old tariff model is not enough in the case of multi-nationals. Maybe a new tariff should apply specifically to each company that outsources. If they find even cheaper labor, the tariff goes up yet again.

As far as IPads going up in price, I say do it. It's an old argument: 'if we get rid of slave labor the price will go up'. Well, yes and no, I say lets see what happens if we actually pay people to make them. Just my opinions.

[Trust Buster]

8. All that would achieve would be to raise consumer prices without seeing a measurable appreciation

of wages. The worst of both worlds.

[livingonearth]

9. I guess I grew up in a world where we could afford to make things in this country.

Maybe that is my problem... I've seen it work the other way with my own two eyes. I don't believe it when I hear people say we have to have outsourcing. And, from what I've read, Carrier really didn't need to outsource to be profitable at all. They're just doing it to make more for their shareholders. Maybe that is where any tariffs needs to go. Maybe if you have stock in a company that outsources you pay more tax on your dividends.

It's just another way that America is being sold out. Apparently we will need things to be as cheap as possible since we've given up our jobs to have them, and won't be able to afford them otherwise. Even that path will take us to crash and burn.

[Trust Buster]

10. When a significant portion of an executive's pay comes in the form of stock options,

the executive has an incentive to exploit the bottom line at all cost. This turns them into short term planners. They outsource labor to increase profit and therefore increase stock price so that they can make a bundle on their options.

They also use the profits to buy back shares thereby increasing share price even more. The money spent on those stock buybacks represents money not spent on raises for the rank and file. In a global environment, it has the institutional effect of distributing more profit up the hierarchical food chain. Bad stuff.

[livingonearth]

11. Yes, bad stuff indeed.

It destroys the middle class in this country, and does little to really help workers in the countries they relocate to.

I hate to just sit back and accept though. There has to be something done about it before it totally destroys our country.
Maybe, instead of tariffs, some kind of laws against paying with stock options.

Getting the word out certainly helps. I'm glad to see a few of the repubs that have catered to big business in Indiana all along are now feeling a bit slapped in the face over this situation with Carrier. Carrier and other companies got what they wanted in Indiana and apparently it's never enough.

If government getting out of the way can't help our economy, maybe government getting in will. That is what those that live by free trade are setting themselves up for if they insist on taking everything from the middle class.

[heaven05]

4. bills legacy

period, the end.