Hillary Clinton Is Not The Right Candidate to Face Donald Trump

[GoLeft TV]

[FarPoint]

1. Oh well... Shit happens..

Because she is the Democratic Nominee. She has my vote.

[KPN]

17. Now there's the right reason to vote for someone.

Doesn't matter what the candidate's positions, record, style, philosophy are. If the Party nominates him/her, its just gotta be the right choice. Because the other alternatives are always worse.

Is it just me, or do others see the mental handcuffs at work in this thinking?

[FarPoint]

20. I have backed Hillary Clinton since 2008.

We had 2 dynamic candidates then...Now, Hillary has the lead and will be our Democratic Nominee... I'm 100% behind the election of President Hillary Clinton.

[KPN]

75. I have been paying attention to the Repugs for quite some time now ...

in both Parties.

You would do well to do the same if you care about the future of our democracy.

[PatrynXX]

24. well unlike Trump

she hasn't wrapped it up yet so until California has it's say nothings in stone yet. or I'll play Han Solo "Never tell me the odds"

[FarPoint]

30. Sure she has closed the Primary race....

Bernie is old news....can not change the facts.

[MiaM]

53. Maybe, her primary odds are pretty good

But what's the plan to win in he general election?

[markbark]

115. I've voted in every Presidential Election since 1984

.... and every election since 1981 (even when it was a PITA... absentee ballots weren't exactly advertised to us grunts when stationed in Germany)

Once.... just ONCE. I'd like to vote FOR a candidate rather than going with the lesser of two evils.

I guess I'm joining PJ O'Rourke on this one. I'm voting for HRC (if she's the nominee) because I'm faced with the choice between "Wrong on a number of things but sane" versus "Bugfuck nuts"

[markbark]

119. Compared to Drumpf?

There IS no comparison.
Drumpf is Sarah Palin with a penis.
There's no fscking WAY that man should be let anywhere near the levers of power.

That being said, I'm still gonna pull for Bernie until Philly is a done deal.
There are a pile of folks on DU who say that makes me delusional, but they are welcome to drink the accumulated sweat from my left testicle. I thought authoritarianism was the hallmark of the OTHER side of the aisle.

[basselope]

78. That's nice, but she has no path to victory.

[Squinch]

2. Well, tough toenails, because she is the one who WILL face Donald Trump. You know why?

Because she won the primary.

[Gene Debs]

7. Which one? The California one? The New Jersey one? The West Virginia one?

[Squinch]

8. The national one. And I know what you are going to say but yes, she did win.

[FailureToCommunicate]

70. "...it's over. You people are like the tea party."

Tell that to the primary voters in WVa, NJ, California...

I take it you're from a state that has already voted?

[FailureToCommunicate]

114. Ohhh, math skills. SO do keep posting why people in those states shouldn't bother voting because of

"TEH MATH!"

[MrMickeysMom]

3. HRC supporters are quite bad at math and are panicked enough to believe anything...

... including how many voters are UNDECIDED.

I know this because I just got off the phone bank for yet another state who will be voting tomorrow (WV)

Want to know how many voters are undecided, but before they hang up, say, "I just don't want Hillary Clinton in"?

The majority of them... that's how many.

[Squinch]

9. I love when you kids say that Hillary's supporters are panicked. Its so cute and silly!

[KPN]

19. How come I get hides when I make remarks like this?

[redstateblues]

41. Talk about easy elections. Bernie in Vermont.

Bernie never had a job til he was 40.

[AlbertCat]

45. Bernie never had a job til he was 40.

He didn't have a political job until he was 38.

He worked many other jobs before in NY and VT.... like a regular person. This is why he "gets it"... and Hillary doesn't. She was busy being a Republican early on.... and still is.

[MrMickeysMom]

80. Pretty desperate there, eh AlbertCat?

And-and-and-and THEN?

[Squinch]

54. "A real sign of panic."

[840high]

65. .that^

[markbark]

116. Snide condescension really helps to unite the party.

....and I'll bet that if HRC falls to the Buffoon come November that you'll be the first to point at the "Bernie Bros" before first looking long and hard in the mirror.

[Squinch]

121. You mean like "progressives" spreading every right wing smear in the service of a

primary candidate who lost by a landslide unites the party?

Kay. Seems like none of us is really trying that hard to unite the party, doesn't it?

[markbark]

125. *tweet*

Last edited Wed May 11, 2016, 09:31 AM - Edit history (1)

Ten yard penalty for logical fallacy mixed with classic deflection.

I've spread no smears so I know not to whom you are referring.
The "run along little boy, the "adults" are talking now" attitude is grating (not to mention patently false) and you wonder why folks take issue?

....and anyone who wants to play "more progressive than thou?" Do you REALLY wanna go there? (comparing HRC with Bernie?)

The Hillbot CHORFs are getting pretty thick on the ground around here if someone doubts the inevitability of the coronation

[pnwmom]

22. Bernie has only gotten 45% of the delegates so far but his math-challenged supporters think

he can manage 65% of the remaining pledged delegates -- including in California, where the latest CNN poll put Hillary 19 points ahead; and NJ, where she is even farther ahead.

[PatrynXX]

29. Yep.

problem is alot of them are angry. couldn't convince someone who's angry even if it was right in front of their face Republicans and Independents and some Democrats love Bernie the youth vote on the Right (the youth Right!) went totally full in on Trump because he's the great deceiver , er well 1 of 2 I know

[Martin Eden]

4. Hillary Clinton is the Moderate Right Candidate to Face Donald Trump. n/t

[mrmpa]

6. And that's the problem...........

moderate and to the right, too far.

[PatrynXX]

32. read various articles

saying this the better Republican to win. meanwhile Plump is courting the left, right up to raising taxes on the rich . which is not suprise because he's a moderate. He sorta totally destroyed the Tea Party. It might not exist now

[RBInMaine]

5. Piss on this!

[zebonaut]

10. Do NOT underestimate Trump. He will be RELENTLESS. Only Bernie can Win.

[JohnnyRingo]

11. Because Trump would have a hard time attacking Sanders?

I guess there's really nothing in Bernie's record that could be used against him *cough*communist*cough*cough*

[jalan48]

12. Unfortunately, Hillary is not only carrying her baggage, she's carrying Bill's as well.

[pnwmom]

27. And Bernie's carrying Jane's.

Jane, whose grandiose plans for Burlington College caused her to take out millions of dollars in loans and drove its finances into the ground.

[PatrynXX]

35. ahh yes

attack the women makes it okay . then you harp on us doing the same to Hillary. bonk. Innocent till proven guilty. Unless Iran bought the USA which is possible that and Saudi Arabia tried to do something similar with Clinton and Bush's help (families help) in 2005 it fell thru in 2006 because of the kurfuffle

[pnwmom]

37. The person I was responding to was saying Hillary would carry Bill's baggage.

So why isn't it fair to mention that Sanders's spouse has plenty of her own baggage?

[dchill]

105. Bill isn't just Hillary's spouse.

He's a former President, with a lot of POLITICAL baggage.

[pnwmom]

106. He was a very popular President. It drove the Rethugs crazy that he was even more

popular after the impeachment proceeding than before.

So his political baggage isn't a problem.

P.S. Most of the stuff that DUers think is political baggage -- like signing the Crime Bill that Bernie voted for -- won't be political baggage in the General Election.

[jalan48]

38. Fail. Bill's got big time baggage. Jane's baggage is minor league stuff compared to his.

[pnwmom]

51. In your opinion. Since Jane's touted as his top advisor, her grandiose and hugely

unsuccessful plans for Burlington College would certainly be significant.

[jalan48]

61. Monica Lewinsky and impeachment. Burlington College? Nah, not even close.

[pnwmom]

62. Any Dem who was alive and paying attention during the impeachment proceedings

knows they were nothing but a show, the US version of Les Miserables, with Ken Starr playing the part of Inspector Javert.

Except, instead of having killed a man, Bill was only guilty of failing to disclose his sexual relationship with a consenting adult.

[jalan48]

63. I don't disagree it was a witch hunt.

Unfortunately, Bill's affair became public and it did happen and was very tawdry.

[pnwmom]

64. So? Hillary behaved admirably throughout the whole humiliating experience.

The investigations and faux scandals began the minute Bill took office, because the real establishment was so offended that upstart Bill had knocked out George the first.

So there was, in no particular order, the travel office scandal, the Christmas list scandal, the Vince Foster "murder," Rose Hill law firm, Whitewater, and on and on till some Rethug showed up with Paula Jones -- who never proved her allegations, by the way. And then the Rethugs turned their Independent investigator loose to follow up in a whole new direction.

And after years of investigation the best they could come up with was Bill failing to acknowledge that he'd had legal sex with Monica Lewinsky.

And what did Bill do during his Presidency? He turned the country around economically. The years of Bush and Reagan had tripled our national debt but Bill managed to produce budget surpluses by the end of his Presidency. And his popularity after the impeachment was even higher than it had been before. Because the American people couldn't care less about "tawdry."

[jalan48]

74. BJs from a young intern in the White House-extreme baggage.

[pnwmom]

81. She was an adult and a college graduate who to this day insists the relationship was consensual

and that she initiated it.

[jalan48]

85. Bill wasn't a 40+ sexist pig preying on a young woman?

It was an infatuated 20 year old's fault? Really?

[pnwmom]

87. Interesting that you aged her down. She was between 22 and 24 during the course of

their relationship, a smart college graduate who even today, as a middle aged woman, says the relationship was completely consensual.

And she is in the best position to know.

[jalan48]

88. Glad to hear it's all been worked out and that 90's baggage has been jettisoned.

[pnwmom]

89. It has for anyone who remembers that farce. I suspect you are young enough that you didn't

live through the Ken Starr horror show, as an adult anyway. Am I wrong?

[jalan48]

91. You are wrong. I lived through it and followed it.

Like Hillary I thought it was a right wing conspiracy. When I found out Bill was engaging in sexual acts with an intern in the White House I was shocked. Is this really the best the Democratic Party has to offer now? Clinton II? No thanks.

[pnwmom]

92. It WAS a right wing conspiracy. Yes, Monica was real and Bill did mess around with her.

But the whole Ken Starr investigation was a RW conspiracy and a terrible ordeal for hundreds of innocent people who were collateral damage. People like Julie Hiatt Steele. Remember her?

[jalan48]

97. Ken Starr was a perv I think. He seemed to enjoy relating the salacious details.

But, Bill actually did the things he was accused of with Monica. It's a fact. It won't effect how I will vote but it will effect Hillary. It's just one more reason she could well lose to Trump. Bernie stands a better chance of winning, plus he doesn't carry the baggage the Clinton's do.

[pnwmom]

100. I don't see why it should affect Hillary anymore than Jane's baggage will affect Bernie.

Jane is supposed to be his closest advisor. Well, this close advisor gave her own college terrible advice, got them into debt for millions of dollars they couldn't pay back -- after submitting false loan documents claiming that a future bequest was a current donation -- and was finally asked to leave.

[appalachiablue]

130. so why did he lie about it

[pnwmom]

131. Either he lied because he didn't want to admit it to the world and Hillary OR

(and I think this was a real possibility) he misread the definition of sexual relations. It doesn't specifically mention contact with the mouth or lips. The first time I read it I also thought it didn't apply to oral sex. Then I realized that it did. But I had to read it twice to understand that.

So I don't know whether he lied and I don't much care. No President has EVER been investigated for sex with consenting adults before and Monica Lewinsky did NOT want to be involved in that whole farce. The whole investigation should never have gone in that direction.

[appalachiablue]

129. failing to acknowledge; that's good

[840high]

66. Trump is making it front

and center.

[Pauldg47]

94. Her super delegates better put on their thinking caps.

[zalinda]

13. Better than all the video with lies that Hillary has told. eom

[JohnnyRingo]

14. The only thing that can turn around an anti-Trump vote...

... is a communist.

Now I know Sanders isn't a commie, but I'm more informed than most of the voters. Trump will have a billion dollars to blast the "Bernie is a communist" message into every home in America, and that will frighten the great majority that would sooner watch Big Bang Theory than Meet The Press.

As for Hillary, try telling average people to research Hillary's videos on the internet. Most of the "lies" are her saying things that make her sound like a centrist, the perfect weapon to use against Trump and certainly nothing he wants to advertise. If Hillary loses the entire fringe left and gains in the moderate middle, she wins, if only by being the sane one.

I have to add... in the video, Farron states that Hillary is the 2nd least popular candidate to ever run for office, with Donald Trump as the absolute most unpopular. I don't know how he arrived at that consensus, but I can think of at least one democratic candidate who is less popular than Hillary Clinton, if we tally up the votes cast.

[zalinda]

16. Communist is not the big scarey thing that it was back in the day

And as for the videos, all the Republicans have to do is run the 2 versions of the 'truth' that Hillary has said, side by side. You don't think there is enough video with Hillary to make at least 25 political commercials?

Hillary supporters here have been throwing out slams against Bernie for months, as soon as Bernie was a threat to Hillary. Nothing has been able to stick on Bernie. Even his foibles are much ado about nothing.

So Hillary is the second least popular candidate to run for office, what an accomplishment! Congratulations to her. Why yes, it makes sense to run her as the Democratic candidate. What could go wrong with this scheme?

Z

And, as always, a Hillary supporter tends to forget that Bernie is one the most respected politicians in the nation.

[KPN]

21. So is this why you support Hillary?

Because Bernie can't win because in your view he can easily be branded a "communist"?

[JohnnyRingo]

99. No, that's why Bernie can't win

That was the original point, whether Clinton can win the GE or not. Some seem to think the voters would overlook his socialist roots, or that the American people are too smart to be fooled by dirty campaign tactics. Others even point out that there are videos of Hillary "lying", ignoring that Sanders often addressed himself as a socialist on camera.

Now I know he's not a communist, but you'll never go broke betting on the ignorance of the average voter. Frankly, I support Clinton because she has a chance against the billion dollar GOP smear machine. She's endured it most of her adult life. That and I got totally turned off by the overbearing and "more liberal than thou" nature of the Berniacs here on DU.

His supporters, and Bernie Bros in particular, really haven't done much for recruiting. They helped make up my mind a few months ago.

[KPN]

104. Can't argue with your point about the average voter.

No offense, but in this particular case, I feel like many Hillary supporters fall into that category.

I don't buy the "she's been tested, she's endured years of GOP attacks, etc." theory. The fact that you've been attacked and are still standing means nothing today ... especially in that she has never done that in a Presidential election. She's got no more advantage than Bernie in that regard in my view. Bernie has more support among Independents than Hillary by far (few Republican leaning Rs would vote for Hillary but many support Bernie over Trump). So basically, that stuff is at best a wash in my view.

The turn off stuff goes both ways to be fair. I was told by many here at DU why Bernie couldn't possibly win way back in December-January -- well before the first primary. Shortly after that, probably by February after the first two primaries in Iowa and NH, I was told by Hillary folks to enjoy chasing rainbows and unicorns while they did the real work of getting a legitimate candidate elected.

I suspect you already had your mind made up about Hillary, just as I did about Bernie before a lot of the name calling began. I don't agree with your arguments for Hillary, and you probably don't buy mine for Bernie. But I'm going with Bernie all the way to the convention.

And I definitely will not vote for Hillary in the GE. In my view, she's just a Republican of a different color based on her record.

[JohnnyRingo]

108. Very reasonable point...

...until that last sentence.

There's no way I'd refuse to vote for Bernie and let Trump win if he somehow pulled it off. That seems to be one defining difference between the two candidate's supporters. It's absolutely absurd to say that anyone to the right of Bernie is Republican Lite.

It's especially sad that you've already made up your mind to abstain or vote otherwise because you may have noticed that outside the Bernie Bubble, Sanders is already an "also-ran". No one in any major media market is still taking his campaign seriously except on internet forums. Even Bernie himself has alluded that he's just running as a thorn in the side of establishment Democrats.

There's a reason no one prints a bumper sticker that says: "Don't blame me, I threw my vote away".

[jmowreader]

107. *cough*tax increase*cough*socialized medicine*cough*welfare*cough*

Bernie is truly a dream candidate. He is everything bad the Republicans have ever said about Democrats all rolled up into one disheveled little bundle. The Republicans won't have to make up lies about how Bernie's going to raise your taxes, give away a ton of free stuff and execute a government takeover of half the economy...because all those things are in Bernie's campaign platform.

[JohnnyRingo]

109. "Disheveled little bundle"

I hate to admit how much physical image matters in presidential campaigns, but it's true. Looking good in a suit is part of what we see as a requisite to the office. We don't elect people who look like a community college English professor.

True as well that the billion dollar GOP hit machine would eat Bernie alive if he wasn't so useful to them at the moment. Some foolishly seem to think Sanders is unassailable.

[jmowreader]

110. You know who he actually reminds me of?

This is Sir Martyn Poliakoff, who runs the Chemistry Department at the University of Nottingham in England.

Glasses, fucked-up hair (which Sir Martyn loves to joke about)...he's like Bernie's brother who made something of himself.

[Lil Missy]

111. Bernie farts rainbows

[JohnnyRingo]

122. That's dust.

Maybe when the light shines through it the right way...

[Lil Missy]

123. ....

[Kablooie]

26. I don't think only Bernie can win but Hillary had better take the campaign seriously.

I think Bernie would probably have an easier time than Hillary but the mathematical odds of Bernie winning are so small that I expect Hillary to be our candidate.

It's going to be a horrific race. Two candidates, neither popular with the general public. Trump wallowing in personal attacks will force Hillary on the defensive and the only way out is to attack Trump in like form and try to put him on the defense. The problem with that is Trump doesn't have to defend himself because apparently any scandal you throw at him is ignored by his supporters. If they found a cache of children's skeletons under his house it probably wouldn't affect his voters.

At least it will be one for the history books.
Either candidate winning will set a new precedent.

[skepticscott]

33. Relentless with who?

Women? Blacks? Hispanics? Intelligent people?

Saying that "Only Bernie can Win" is delusional and disconnected from reality. Bernie isn't even beating Hillary.

[pnwmom]

18. Millions of voters and hundreds of delegates disagree with you. She's the one.

The Rethugs only hope was that Bernie would somehow be the nominee.

[KPN]

23. We shall see.

[FarPoint]

25. We already know.

We are supporting Hillary Clinton because she is Presidential.

[AlbertCat]

39. The Rethugs only hope was that Bernie would somehow be the nominee.

They can't WAIT for Hillary!

So much baggage! Like someone else said...plus her husband's! There are so many targets all over her pant suits! They've been preparing for this for decades!


They wouldn't know what to do with Sanders. They'd scream "COMMIE" and everyone who would vote for a liberal in the 1st place will just go .

[pnwmom]

43. "Everyone who would vote for a commie" would not comprise a winning coalition. nt

[AlbertCat]

46. a winning coalition.

you have to win 1st.

I know... detail!

[pnwmom]

50. She will. He won't.

Neither he will.

[redstateblues]

47. No they would just run the video of Bernie promising to raise taxes

On the middle class. Last Dem to do that was Mondale. He won one state

[silvershadow]

28. bookmarking for later. I agree with the premise, though. nt

[Trust Buster]

31. Democratic voters do not agree with you. That's why Sanders lost despite his shameful pandering.

[AlbertCat]

42. Democratic voters do not agree with you.

Democratic voters are not the only ones voting in the general.

[FailureToCommunicate]

71. Oh snap.

[liberal N proud]

34. Let me guess, without even watching this...

The man who is lost to her by a large number is the right man for the task?

[Gene Debs]

48. Whenever I see the little rolling laughing man emoticon, I know whoever posted it is a child.

[liberal N proud]

113. Is that the best you have?

[wisteria]

40. I am saving this for after Clinton wins the Presidency.

She is the strongest, and the most vetted candidate to take on Trump. Add that to her experience, and knowledge, and she is in the best position to take Trump on.

[underthematrix]

49. This afternoon I went to our town community center for lunch

and all I saw were Hillary signs everywhere in my small NorCal suburban town. Didn't see any other political signage.

Exciting times! I'm so excited about casting my DEM ballot! #ImWithHer

[redstateblues]

44. Love to hear BSS say Hillary is a weak candidate. What does that make Bernie?

What is worse than weak? Maybe the weakest. He couldn't even win his own party's nomination

[Gene Debs]

52. So let me ask this, in all seriousness. What exactly is it about Hillary Clinton that makes

her most breathless supporters so on fire to see her become President? And I mean something substantive, not the vague sense that she's "awesome" that seems to be the cornerstone of so many of her supporters' convictions.

Is it her trade policy? Because that sucks. Is it her foreign policy experience? Because that's nothing to be proud of either. Is it her stances on minimum wage and income inequality and gay rights? Because she came late to all those parties, too, and when she got there you could tell she still wants to be somewhere else. Is it because she's a woman? if that's the case, I can only conclude that they'd be equally happy with Carly Fiorina or Sarah Palin. Is it her pledge to "take on" Wall Street? Because that one's laughable on its face.

So please tell me, because I don't get it.

[840high]

67. Crickets....

[Gene Debs]

68. At least I was expecting crickets.

[LuvLoogie]

79. For me, it's her ability to frustrate her detractors.

That gregarious work ethic that leaves people whining, wishing, and dripping with sweat.

[Gene Debs]

86. What the hell are you talking about? Do you have any idea how utterly nonsensical

and completely substance-free that post is?

Seriously, go back and read what you just wrote, and then see if you wanna try again.

[LuvLoogie]

90. I also think she has a great sense of humor and an infectious laugh.

[Gene Debs]

93. This is the sound of something whose nest should be destroyed before it lays eggs. I guess

I'll continue to wait for that substantive answer. I can't say I ever expect to get it.

[LuvLoogie]

95. Shame on you! Birdie Sanders wouldn't like that at all!

[Gene Debs]

96. Welcome to my ignore list.

[Gene Debs]

124. Still waitin' for an answer.

[SheilaT]

69. The real scary thing about a Hillary-Donald

GE, is that Donald will spend 90% of his time being totally vulgar, disprespectful, mysogynist, and rude beyond words to her. He will not bring up anything of substance, such as her policies or anything she's actually done in the past. He'll call her ugly (he thinks all women who aren't 22 year old bimbos are ugly), stupid, he'll spend a lot of time on Bill's infidelities, and maybe even complain about how she decorated the White House when she was living there.

And don't for one minute think she'll respond with anything substantive. She'll get sucked into that crap, accuse him of being a sexist pig (although to her credit she'll word it more diplomatically) and never get around to discussing any of her successful past policies, positions, or achievements, let alone put forth her vision for this country going down the road.

It will be a campaign of utter trivial bullshit, and not a single voter will become any more enlightened as to why he or she should actually vote for either person.

[FailureToCommunicate]

72. Sadly, this is probably a very accurate prediction.

[SheilaT]

76. And even more sadly, the Hillarybots

are sufficiently delusional that they keep on crowing about how she will wipe the floor with him. They haven't a clue.

[jamese777]

84. and neither do you

No one can predict what's going to happen when 135 million people go to the polls six months from now.
What is certain is that thus far Hillary Clinton has gotten 12,561,272 votes and Donald Trump has gotten 10,717,357 votes.

[Rhiannon12866]

98. And how many voters will be so offended by the nastiness that they'll be completely turned off

And stop paying attention to his so-called campaign? I certainly can't stand to hear one more offensive word from him, turn off the TV or change the channel whenever he appears (which is far too often!). And how many will be so disengaged after all this that they won't even bother to vote??

[ptownbro]

73. Grrr. Bill Clinton did NOT win because of Ross Perot.

I wish people would stop buying into that made up right wing talking point. If you look at thr poling from back then and remember history correctly (vs the Republican revision) ... Ross Perot was pulling as much votes from Clinton than Bush and in some cases more!

Geesh. Everytime I hear this it's annoying because it's completely made up and false.

Rachael maddow did a very good video on this.


http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ross-perot-myth-reborn-amid-rumors-third-party-trump-candidacy

[RandySF]

77. If this isn't an attack on our own nominee then it belongs in GD: Primary.

[mikehiggins]

101. Scott Adams, the cartoonist behind Dilbert, has a very odd article regarding Trump and what he

is up to.

I didn't save the link but you could probably find it easily on Google.

Sort of scared me because he brought something up that I'd never heard before.

And that is not all that easy.

[PADemD]

102. Donald Trump will win in a landslide. *The mind behind ‘Dilbert’ explains why.

This article?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/comic-riffs/wp/2016/03/21/donald-trump-will-win-in-a-landslide-the-mind-behind-dilbert-explains-why/

[ffr]

103. Especially if your name is Donald Drumpf

[thucythucy]

126. I'm very much worried that you may be right.

And the prospect of losing this election has me truly terrified.

[ElenaElena]

127. Who is the right than?

Who is the right than?

[Pastiche423]

128. Bernie