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Mike Malloy - Will Hillary Clinton Be Cleared Or Indicted? (Original Post) hschulein May 2016 OP
I made a point of trashing primary forums to get away from this propoganda. RandySF May 2016 #1
Trash away. But there is no escaping the reckoning. leveymg May 2016 #3
That's a nice delusion RandySF May 2016 #4
It's the only outcome that maintains any semblance of lawful process leveymg May 2016 #5
Comey will not recommend any criminal charges because she broke no criminal laws. pnwmom May 2016 #9
The facts and the law and controlling EO indicate otherwise. leveymg May 2016 #14
I've answered you repeatedly in that OP and others. You are still wrong. pnwmom May 2016 #16
As I responded, he never discusses Sec. 793, just 798, a different statute. leveymg May 2016 #17
And where did you get your law degree? And how many years have you practiced? pnwmom May 2016 #18
When the facts and the law are against you, go all ad hominem. You have nothing else left. leveymg May 2016 #19
Right. You have no special expertise, you just are smarter than all the non-partisan lawyers pnwmom May 2016 #21
I have lined up the facts with the law. Why take anyone's word? You are free to examine them and leveymg May 2016 #23
Why should anyone bother to go law school? Why do we have lawyers and judges? pnwmom May 2016 #24
If you are looking to lawyers for truth and Judges for justice, you're likely to be disappointed. leveymg May 2016 #25
It's a totally valid discussion and needs to be had. Sweeping it under the rug is an injustice ThePhilosopher04 May 2016 #12
does he pray every night for this to happen? hmmm nt msongs May 2016 #2
yes Skittles May 2016 #11
Thanks for posting Ned_Devine May 2016 #6
Poor Choice of Title Roy Rolling May 2016 #7
Clever! Justice Watch has peeled off their label now, to help us forget pnwmom May 2016 #8
Cleared of any criminal behavior. Still shows bad judgment but not malicious intent. n/t mikehiggins May 2016 #10
Will she be cleared or indicted? ReRe May 2016 #13
She's not going to be cleared. Indictment is still many steps away and may be delayed till pardon leveymg May 2016 #15
Thank you for that... ReRe May 2016 #22
This truthseeker understands! nt thereismore May 2016 #20
Of course no indictment. Innocence or guilt has nothing to do with the outcome. gordianot May 2016 #26

RandySF

(58,823 posts)
1. I made a point of trashing primary forums to get away from this propoganda.
Mon May 9, 2016, 11:18 PM
May 2016

And it's bleeding over into General Discussion.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
3. Trash away. But there is no escaping the reckoning.
Mon May 9, 2016, 11:35 PM
May 2016

She may not actually be Indicted but the FBI will not exonerate her. She's likely to simply release her delegates, the AG will run out the clock, and she'll be pardoned as Obama's sad last act.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
5. It's the only outcome that maintains any semblance of lawful process
Mon May 9, 2016, 11:39 PM
May 2016

Do you have a better idea if Comey finds she violated her security agreement?

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
9. Comey will not recommend any criminal charges because she broke no criminal laws.
Tue May 10, 2016, 01:27 AM
May 2016

And he has no responsibility for deciding whether she did or didn't conform to departmental procedure. That's up to President Obama, who was her boss.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
14. The facts and the law and controlling EO indicate otherwise.
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:10 AM
May 2016

It's not departmental procedure that is the guide to prosecution. It's the applicable Executive Order 13526 and the relevant sections of the Espionage Act and other federal statutes. That is certainly within the ambit of the FBI's investigation. See, http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251552653

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
16. I've answered you repeatedly in that OP and others. You are still wrong.
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:21 AM
May 2016

A U of Michigan professor who wrote a manual on classification for the Dept of Homeland Security explains why. At great length.

http://prospect.org/article/why-hillary-wont-be-indicted-and-shouldnt-be-objective-legal-analysis

Why Hillary Won't Be Indicted and Shouldn't Be: An Objective Legal Analysis

There is no reason to think that Clinton committed any crimes with respect to the use of her email server.

Richard O. Lempert
March 20, 2016

_________________________________________

And this, from Dan Abrams:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/analysis-prosecute-hillary-clinton/story?id=38168118


But based on what has been public through the beginning of April, there doesn’t seem to be a legitimate basis for any sort of criminal charge against her. I fear many commentators are allowing their analysis to become clouded by a longstanding distrust, or even hatred of Clinton.

In fact, I recently expressed my view of this investigation to a friend who retorted "I didn’t know you are a Hillary guy." I guess there is almost no way to analyze this case without being accused of partisanship, but then please also mischaracterize me in this context as a Dennis Hastert guy, a George Zimmerman guy, a Brendan Dassey guy, a gun control guy and an anti-Obama guy (just to name a few).

Hillary-bashing is good clean political sport, but a federal criminal indictment is serious business, saved for serious crimes and hopefully based on serious evidence, which as of yet, has not materialized.


________________________________________________

And there is this piece, from Politico;

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/hillary-clinton-prosecution-past-cases-221744

The most serious punishment for security violations during that three-year period was firing, said Sharon Papp, general counsel of the American Foreign Service Association.

“Although, at the discretion of the State Department, some of these cases were referred to the Department of Justice, I do not know of a single State Department employee criminally prosecuted in a security violation or security revocation case,” Papp wrote in a declaration submitted by Keyser’s defense. “I am aware of no case in which a State Department employee who took classified material from its proper location [but did not disclose it improperly]… has been prosecuted.”

Several experts told POLITICO that in light of the legal obstacles to a case and the Justice Department’s track record in such prosecutions they are confident Clinton won’t face charges.

“Based on everything I’ve seen in the public media, not only don’t I see the basis for criminal prosecution, I don’t even see the basis for administrative action such as revoking a clearance or suspending it,” said Leonard, the former director of the Information Security Oversight Office.

“Looked at as a potential criminal case, this would be laughed out of court,” said William Jeffress, a Washington attorney on the defense team for former Bush White House aide Scooter Libby during his trial for lying in a leak investigation. “There hasn’t been any case remotely approaching a situation where someone received emails that were not marked classified, who simply receives them and maybe replies to them and a criminal prosecution is brought,” Jeffress said.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
17. As I responded, he never discusses Sec. 793, just 798, a different statute.
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:29 AM
May 2016

This is not a complete and relevant discussion of the law. I've seen several like it. None of them deal candidly with the history of prosecutions under Sec. 793. Most of those initially charged with 793 plead down to 1924.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
18. And where did you get your law degree? And how many years have you practiced?
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:34 AM
May 2016

And have you worked at the Department of Homeland Security and written the classification manual?

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
21. Right. You have no special expertise, you just are smarter than all the non-partisan lawyers
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:36 PM
May 2016

who disagree with you on how to interpret and apply the law.

Your Hillary hate makes you the real expert.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
23. I have lined up the facts with the law. Why take anyone's word? You are free to examine them and
Tue May 10, 2016, 04:12 PM
May 2016

draw your own conclusions about the merits of the case, as have I.

It's probably a bad idea to take anyone's analysis on this topic as definitive, other than Director Comey's. Don't draw assumptions about the experience and expertise and candor of other persons.

Don't assume "experts" in the media are "non-partisan" just because they claim to be. They probably aren't.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
24. Why should anyone bother to go law school? Why do we have lawyers and judges?
Tue May 10, 2016, 04:20 PM
May 2016

You can do it all.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
25. If you are looking to lawyers for truth and Judges for justice, you're likely to be disappointed.
Tue May 10, 2016, 04:43 PM
May 2016

Take that from someone who has worked with both for more than 30 years.

 

ThePhilosopher04

(1,732 posts)
12. It's a totally valid discussion and needs to be had. Sweeping it under the rug is an injustice
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:15 AM
May 2016

to the American people.

Roy Rolling

(6,917 posts)
7. Poor Choice of Title
Tue May 10, 2016, 01:14 AM
May 2016

EMail "scandal"? There is no "scandal", there is an investigation. There may be an ALLEGED scandal, but there is no scandal.

There is no "cleared or indicted". There is just an investigation.

I am not a fan of alerts, but the reckless graphic of this video is borderline offensive.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
8. Clever! Justice Watch has peeled off their label now, to help us forget
Tue May 10, 2016, 01:25 AM
May 2016

that they have been pushing these you-tube videos, along with the label "help support our lawsuit to stop Obama's radical agenda."

Mike Malloy, like a lot of Bernie supporters, has simply become a left-wing echo chamber for right-wing Hillary hate. He's pathetic.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
13. Will she be cleared or indicted?
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:40 AM
May 2016

I feel she should be indicted, but she will probably be cleared.

Reminds me of a Constitutional crises we got ourselves into before. You know, like the 2000 and 2004 elections?

We will be required to chew up and shallow the antacid pill, sit down and shut up for "Democracy's" sake. It makes me sick just to think about it.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
15. She's not going to be cleared. Indictment is still many steps away and may be delayed till pardon
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:17 AM
May 2016

That's the precedent based upon the case of Bill Clinton's CIA Director John Deutch who was found by the Inspector IG and the FBI to have hooked up classified laptops to his home Internet. Attorney General Reno ran out the clock and Deutch was pardoned on President Clinton's last day in office.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
22. Thank you for that...
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:42 PM
May 2016

...small ray of hope for justice in this land. But we might have to wait until she's on the way out the door before Justice catches up? Well, that's no good. "Justice delayed is justice denied." ~~MLK,Jr

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