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Related: About this forumBernie Has NEVER Supported the GOP Nominee over a Democrat - Wish I could Say the Same for Clinton
and no, it wasn't a 'one-off'
Clinton folks attacking Bernie for somehow damaging cohesiveness of the Democratic Party, whereas Hillary repeatedly lifted McCain above a fellow Democrat, as if Obama was unqualified to be President. Let's talk double standards, shall we?
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)bears repeating
phazed0
(745 posts)Bringing up such facts is met with a wall of ignorance.
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)Republicans won't be selective on how they attack and I bet they are currently draining the swamp to see what damage they can do
I am afraid they are going to make swiftboating look like a kiddie-carnival ride
phazed0
(745 posts)ILikeTheJiggles
(3 posts)I don't think Trump is smart enough to attack her on her policy positions or her record. He doesn't look at political playbooks like we do, he might not even bother to research HRC's nasty record, he's more prone to speak off the cuff and make shit up, which would be much less effective. I might be underestimating him (again), but those in the Clinton camp should probably count their blessings on this one.
elljay
(1,178 posts)He will have the Republican Party, politicians, PACs, strategists, and donors behind him. You may not be underestimating him, but we can't underestimate them. Rove and others are still lurking out there and they won't miss an attack or dirty trick.
SusanLarson
(284 posts)Clinton can easily deal with a standard politician because she knows their playbooks inside and out. That is not the case with trump and she won't have the weapons needed to deal with him or his supporters.
djean111
(14,255 posts)The DNC is a very bad joke, at this point. Do as I say, not as I do. Oh, and send money.
merrily
(45,251 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)LiberalArkie
(15,703 posts)something going on. It seems that the last year or so Obama has been an entirely different person than at the start.
Chakab
(1,727 posts)the Democratic establishment. If Obama had taken the principled position and shunned them after the election, they and their cronies within the party would have made is life difficult.
nxylas
(6,440 posts)Along with getting Obama to pay off her campaign debt. Something to remember the next time one of her courtiers says that Bernie should PULL OUT NOW!
felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)they both want to bomb Iran, there's chickenhawk common ground with these people that is a dead giveaway.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I made my first-ever pre-general donation. To Obama.
Hadn't realized she did it twice. It infuriated me at the time and still does.
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)Do I even need to include the sarcasm thingy?
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)going to support Trump in the General against her?
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)her numbers are going to continue to drop and they'll see the light before it is too late
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Ive never seen so many people hate their own possible candidate.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)She and the Donald are pretty close in ideology and income bracket, and personally.
Chicago1980
(1,968 posts)Stop with that ignorance.
think Hiliary or Bernie would ever support Trump. No one seems to be happy about any of the candidates running, so I get it, this election has everybody on edge. The Election is still 6 months out and I'm exhausted.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)No reasoning, just wealthy snark.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)...forward to your posts, t2t!
4word looking
(2 posts)She sure supported and voted for the consumer protection bill bush wanted and that bill trashed our economy and took peoples houses.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)4word looking
(2 posts)Obama's approval ratings is high right now.
40RatRod
(532 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Legends303
(481 posts)Instead of this being another clickbait topic.I believe they were talking about experience of the candidates at the time that SHE WAS RUNNING AGAINST.
corkhead
(6,119 posts)tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)kracer20
(199 posts)that either he or Clinton are way better than any of the Republican nominees.
What Clinton said back in 2008 is not even close. Nice try BTW.
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)I am enjoying their comments
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)The most revolting D candidate in my lifetime
LS_Editor
(893 posts)wisteria
(19,581 posts)She never set up her email with malicious intent.
dynamo99
(48 posts)Depends on what "malicious" means. She clearly set it up to avoid FOIA and suchlike. She's not stupid, she almost certainly knew that it was prohibited.
Of course, she's not alone in doing stuff like that. It's the arrogance of power. The rules don't apply to her.
No, she's not going to get indicted on that, neither before nor after the election. If they actually enforced the law on top-level politicals (of any administration, this isn't just Hillary) there wouldn't be enough left at large to run things. (Compare the treatment of McChrystal and Snowden.)
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)it does not matter whether the intent was malicioius or stupid or whatever. she knew exactly what she was doing and did it anyway - because... because.... because??? why? because the security of classified info took the farthest rear seat to her back seat dealings to line her pockets.
she has no respect and does not care about the security of the united states and the american people. she cares so little, she is willing to break the law and that the rules do not apply to her.
Response to dynamo99 (Reply #34)
SusanLarson This message was self-deleted by its author.
SusanLarson
(284 posts)Shared this in another post...
The FBI doesn't launch investigations unless they have reasonable suspicion to believe the law has been broken. If Hillary was innocent, the investigation would have ended a long time ago. The fact that it continues and immunity was offered means that they have a bigger fish they want to catch.
She can claim she didn't intend to violate the law but the laws governing the protection of classified information do not require intent. The standard here is negligently, and no one can argue that by running a unsecured private server and sending information that she as the classification authority for the State Department should have known was born classified, especially the Special Access Program (SAP) materials; that she did not indeed act negligently.
Executive Order 13526 and 18 U.S.C Sec. 793(f) of the federal code make it unlawful to send or store classified information on personal email.
Sec. 5.5. Sanctions. (a) If the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office finds that a violation of this order or its implementing directives has occurred, the Director shall make a report to the head of the agency or to the senior agency official so that corrective steps, if appropriate, may be taken.
(b) Officers and employees of the United States Government, and its contractors, licensees, certificate holders, and grantees shall be subject to appropriate sanctions if they knowingly, willfully, or negligently:
(1) disclose to unauthorized persons information properly classified under this order or predecessor orders;
(2) classify or continue the classification of information in violation of this order or any implementing directive;
(3) create or continue a special access program contrary to the requirements of this order; or
(4) contravene any other provision of this order or its implementing directives.
(c) Sanctions may include reprimand, suspension without pay, removal, termination of classification authority, loss or denial of access to classified information, or other sanctions in accordance with applicable law and agency regulation.
(d) The agency head, senior agency official, or other supervisory official shall, at a minimum, promptly remove the classification authority of any individual who demonstrates reckless disregard or a pattern of error in applying the classification standards of this order.
(e) The agency head or senior agency official shall:
(1) take appropriate and prompt corrective action when a violation or infraction under paragraph (b) of this section occurs; and
(2) notify the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office when a violation under paragraph (b)(1), (2), or (3) of this section occurs.
18 U.S.C Sec. 793(f) states:
(f) Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
She's guilty and no amount of wishing or blaming a vast right wing conspiracy is gonna help her get out of it. A presidential pardon would, but would also would kill her electability.
I also think that the real crime here is the intentional concealment of responsive records by using a private server which was not indexed by the National Archives and Records Administration.
Section 1236.22 of the 2009 National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) requirements states that:
Agencies that allow employees to send and receive official electronic mail messages using a system not operated by the agency must ensure that Federal records sent or received on such systems are preserved in the appropriate agency record keeping system.
I think the record will show this was exactly the purpose of the private server and not "convenience" as claimed by the woman who has claimed that she never lied to the American people...
Get that? Here is what she said in the video...
Senator CLINTON: (From home video) As much as Ive been investigated and all of that, you know, why would II dont even wantwhy would I ever want to do e-mail?
Using a private server to conceal official government records (emails are records) violates 18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally
(b) Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States. As used in this subsection, the term office does not include the office held by any person as a retired officer of the Armed Forces of the United States.
The penalty for which blocks her from ever again holding a public office under the United States.
www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-31819843
www.politico.com/story/2015/03/foia-hillary-clinton-email-daniel-metcalfe-116011
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)Her intent was no doubt expressed to others when setting up the server, and someone else is likely going to express that info to authorities. Her argument about 'convenience' is a laugh. It used to be 'IOKIYAAR' but now it is 'IOKIYAAC'
SusanLarson
(284 posts)Was looking for that all day! Added it to my post
wisteria
(19,581 posts)It may be a shock to you, but Democrsts and Republicans used to agree to disagree, but were able to speak well of each other no matter what the differences.
tiredtoo
(2,949 posts)A friend that keeps telling me Bernie is doing damage to Hillary for the general election.
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)hillarians profess too? do they not remember her demeaning disparagement of then senator obama?
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)After all, they're cut from the same corporate blue cloth.
beastie boy
(9,237 posts)LS_Editor
(893 posts)But screw facts and Manipulate the Record.
dchill
(38,449 posts)Someone might be a Brockolyte.
shenmue
(38,506 posts)LS_Editor
(893 posts)Now that's not good enough, because he won't drink the Republican-lite and Third Way Democratic Party punch. The party has major issues with corruption and identity. Bernie Represents what it used to stand for. HIilary represents the monied interests it now stands for.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)As to his role in the Senate, the Clinton supporters want to make a big deal of his formal designation as an Independent. They don't want to hear that he's always caucused with the Democrats and thus contributed to Democratic control of the Senate. There are Democratic Senators (i.e., people with that nice shiny "D" after their names) who obtained committee chairships based on the equation D+I > R, and they probably considered that to be the support they most wanted.
LS_Editor
(893 posts)BainsBane
(53,016 posts)His entire campaign has been built on attacking her, and he continues to do so despite having no path to nomination. Your post is evidence of the fact that he and his remaining supporters are working to erode her chances in the general election. Some here have even pledged to support Trump or refuse to vote for the nominee. We see constant prognostications that Trump will beat her, which given the fact such claims are contradicted by polls can only be wishful thinking.
Attacking Clinton, however, is the least of Bernie's transgressions. The fact he trails by 3 million votes has led him to adopt an argument for nomination that hinges on overturning the results of elections and super delegates installing him as nominee against the electoral will of the majority. He justifies that profoundly anti-democratic position by insisting his supporters are more valuable than the 3 million more who voted for Clinton because of their youth and the fact they are independents. He has fed into his supporters conspiracy theories and worked to delegitimize the votes of the majority--people of color, the disabled, elderly, women, and Democrats in states across the country--because it helps him justify his ongoing campaign, despite no path to victory through the ballot box. The fact he actively works against my equal rights as a voter is something I will never forgive. I have never in my life witnessed a politician with such contempt for the rights of voters. I know his supporters believe themselves inherently superior, that they reject the outcome of any election in which they don't prevail, and Bernie has encouraged that self-entitled rage toward the Party and Democratic voters. Now they plan to carry their opposition to the electoral rights of the majority to the national convention in Philadelphia. Say what you want about Clinton but make no mistake that we see clearly that in doing so the Bernistas show their complete contempt for the electoral rights of the majority. They are fighting for government by the minority, with themselves ruling over the rest of us. They will not succeed, but that they seek to do so is unforgivable. I have learned that I must fight every day for my basic rights, and I plan to do just that.
dchill
(38,449 posts)You type too much.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)the end of one thought/point, and the beginning of the next.
BainsBane
(53,016 posts)But smply insist I shoukd not speak is typical. The facts are that Bernie sseks to overturn elections and seize power against the electoral will if the majority. He abd Weaver have made no secret about that. No one who respects equal votung rights would make that argument.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)Babel_17
(5,400 posts)Some members of the Democratic caucus were reportedly angry at the decision not to punish Lieberman more severely. Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont (who at the time was an Independent who caucused with the Democrats) stated that he voted to punish Lieberman "because while millions of people worked hard for Obama, Lieberman actively worked for four more years of President Bush's policies."
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)that he thought Sarah Palin was a good choice for McCain's running mate.
But right up until the moment Lieberman spoke at the RNC he had staunch defenders within the Democratic Party.
We were being played, people. We are still being played!
Wake the fuck up!
Carolina
(6,960 posts)The fact that when he was challenged by Ned Lamont in the CT Senate primary and lost, he ran in the general as an independent and Bill and Hill helped him!
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)LittleGirl
(8,280 posts)I'm just glad that I remember all of these things from '08 and have been a Bernie Supporter for years! MSNBC used to have him on their shows often in '08 and even then I thought...I wished he'd run. So when he announced, I was on board from the get go.
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)I was a Hillary supporter initially. I even proposed a campaign logo for her. Years prior I had signed up for Bernie's Senatorial emails after he pushed for community health clinics in supporting ACA - a very selfless use of his vote. Never even once thought he was going to be a candidate. In time, I was interested in O'Malley and was following him for awhile but he never seemed to catch on and was a little cautious in interviews and it felt a bit 'prepared'. About that time, there was a growing number of posts about Bernie on DU and I was wondering why those folks didn't support O'Malley, a more 'typical-looking-candidate'. *I know, very biased opinion using appearance, but then I started to listen to Sanders, and read info on his campaign. I slowly grew into supporting him.
Hopefully this primary & election will all play out for the best interest of the country and we can support a candidate we are actually proud of and who's positions are representative of the country.
Your note threw me back into thinking of how'd I get here supporting this crazy guy with the wild hair!!!
LittleGirl
(8,280 posts)I remember Ed Schultz interviewing him from the Capital and I was so impressed. I thought this guy gets it. And I have been hooked since.
I have never been a Clinton fan and wasn't involved in politics back when he was President. Never voted after 1980 and didn't vote again until '08. I just changed the channel and didn't pay attention to the crap. But I saw Obama on Oprah and I was hooked then too.
It's funny because now I'm a political junkie and know who everyone is, and who is on our side etc.
If you had asked me back in the 90s who was who, I would have not been able to answer any of them, except maybe who the President was.
you see, when I voted for Carter and he lost, Reagan raised my taxes and I was no longer able to qualify for a Pell grant which I was going to use to pay for college. I was a cook in a restaurant for many years, waited tables too (2.01 an hour + tips) and Reagan raised my taxes. I mentioned that to my spouse yesterday. my paychecks before Reagan were about 15 bucks (after deductions and taxes) and then Reagan, took that last 15 bucks away from me and I had to live on tips after that. When I applied for a Pell grant, I was turned down! Yet I lived on my own and paid 220 in rent! Trickle down my ass. GOPs suck.
I finally worked my way out of restaurant life, got a real job and finished my degree when I was 45 (2005). Thanks GOP. Not.
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)Sounds like a hard fought battle just to keep above water - ugh. That is terrible. I worked in a small park in Texas where it was legal to pay less than minimum wage due to the nature of the temporary/seasonal work. Just goes to show you, they always have a sneaky way around things. In the movie biz, people work for meals and credit. You see the ads all the time. Amazing folks still get away with that given the progressive nature of that line of work. Next, everyone will be called 'an intern' and we'll all work for free.
Thanks GOP. Not.
(that should be a T-shirt)
LittleGirl
(8,280 posts)how the GOP has hoodwinked America. Should be a t-shirt, ha.
Thanks again!
Progressive dog
(6,899 posts)is supporting a Republican. Good to know.
Progressive dog
(6,899 posts)https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/02/04/when-bernie-sanders-ran-against-vermont/kNP6xUupbQ3Qbg9UUelvVM/story.html
Nice try
oberliner
(58,724 posts)He has prevented several Democrats from winning elected office by running against them as an independent.