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Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:33 PM

Three methods discussed in this video about what happened in California.

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Reply Three methods discussed in this video about what happened in California. (Original post)
midnight Jun 2016 OP
Peace Patriot Jun 2016 #1
kadaholo Jun 2016 #2
creeksneakers2 Jun 2016 #3
midnight Jun 2016 #5
creeksneakers2 Jun 2016 #7
still_one Jun 2016 #26
JDPriestly Jun 2016 #30
still_one Jun 2016 #36
JDPriestly Jun 2016 #38
still_one Jun 2016 #39
JDPriestly Jun 2016 #40
still_one Jun 2016 #41
Old Crow Jun 2016 #10
creeksneakers2 Jun 2016 #12
Old Crow Jun 2016 #16
creeksneakers2 Jun 2016 #18
Old Crow Jun 2016 #21
JDPriestly Jun 2016 #31
MrMickeysMom Jun 2016 #13
creeksneakers2 Jun 2016 #17
midnight Jun 2016 #23
creeksneakers2 Jun 2016 #29
JDPriestly Jun 2016 #32
creeksneakers2 Jun 2016 #42
midnight Jun 2016 #22
Night Watchman Jun 2016 #4
MrMickeysMom Jun 2016 #15
midnight Jun 2016 #24
onecaliberal Jun 2016 #28
dogandturtlemom Jun 2016 #6
passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #8
dogandturtlemom Jun 2016 #9
passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #11
JDPriestly Jun 2016 #33
passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #35
midnight Jun 2016 #19
Old Crow Jun 2016 #20
midnight Jun 2016 #25
Old Crow Jun 2016 #27
videohead5 Jun 2016 #14
JDPriestly Jun 2016 #34
Skittles Jun 2016 #37

Response to midnight (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:40 PM

1. 2004 Deja vu!

Nt

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Response to midnight (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:47 PM

2. Check Out Protecting Our Vote Video Here...

...trustvote.org . Reviews the historical and current election fraud. WOW!!! Must see!!!

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Response to midnight (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:48 PM

3. Who are these people?

The CA rules say NPP voters are to be given a provisional ballot. If they want a Democratic cross over ballot they have to request one. There was no fraud in giving them provisional ballots. In many states, non-Democrats aren't allowed to vote in Democratic primaries at all.

How many voters weren't registered as they believed they should be? Millions? I really doubt it. And even when that happened the voters could have gotten a provisional ballot.

How many incidents of vote flipping were there? I doubt if it was enough to alter the outcome significantly. Machines can also flip votes from Clinton to Sanders. Voters are supposed to check their ballots before they give final approval. I expect that most of them do.

How they came up with the figure 69% for the Sanders voters is a mystery. Its beyond belief.

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Response to creeksneakers2 (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 06:32 PM

5. If you have a link for the rules your citing, please post.

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Response to midnight (Reply #5)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 09:32 PM

26. California counts all ballots, including provisional no matter what the margin



Q: Are vote-by-mail and provisional ballots always counted – even in "landslide" elections?
A: Yes, every valid ballot returned to county elections officials by 8:00 p.m. on election day is counted in every election, regardless of the ballot type or the margin in any particular contest.

http://www.sos.ca.gov/administration/news-releases-and-advisories/2014-news-releases-and-advisories/db14-090/

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/provisional-voting/

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ballot-status/

Of the ballots that need to be counted, about 2/3 of those are vote-by mail ballots. This was reported by Alex Padilla. Vote by mail favors Hillary incidentally.

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Response to still_one (Reply #26)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 12:27 AM

30. Since the election, I personally, have talked to three people whose registrations were not

correctly listed when they went to the polls. Two of them had voted Democratic all their lives and were shown as some other party. One, my neighbor, re-registered Democratic from Peace and Freedom well prior to the election specifically to vote for Bernie and was not registered as a Democrat according to the records at the polls. She had to vote by provisional ballot although she is sure she re-registered as a Democrat well before the primary.

And those are just cases of people I personally know. In addition, I was at the polling place near my neighborhood and saw this happening. The voting rolls were not properly updated. It was a mess.

It really looks bad for the Democratic Party in California. It makes the organization and the Recorders' offices look incompetent or sloppy or perhaps worse.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #30)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 12:56 AM

36. I can't speak to the anecdotal responses you received, however, I can speak to the fact that

all ballots are counted, including provisional ballots, and the SOS lists numbers to check the status of their ballot.

In my anecdotal experience, no one I came across had any problems with their registration getting changed.

You think the Recorders office is incompetent, sloppy or worse, I wholeheartedly disagree.

I am from California, and have been voting for decades without any issues.

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Response to still_one (Reply #36)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 02:22 AM

38. Did you observe the voting at the polls other than just voting yourself?

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #38)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 02:29 AM

39. no. I vote by mail, but others I talked with who went to the polls had no issues. I am in

Northern California, not sure if you are referring to a specific area in California, or all areas, but either way, there are a lot of counties in California, with a lot of polling places.

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Response to still_one (Reply #39)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 04:13 AM

40. I'm in Los Angeles.

The printed lists at the polls did not accurately reflect the registrations of the voters in some cases. My neighbor, as I said (well over 70 years and of sound mind) expressly re-registered as a Democrat to vote for Bernie. When she got to the polls, her new registration was not reflected on the list of voters. She was handed a provisional ballot. She is certain that she re-registered on time because she left town and went on a trip well before the election and specifically returned to vote. (Los Angeles area)

Further, my daughter has a friend who always registered and voted Democratic but was registered as a Republican quite unexpectedly on this June 7. (San Diego area)

I was actually observing for a short time at the polls. People had received sample ballots and were not listed on the printed list at the polls. They had to go home and get their sample ballots to prove they were registered. One of the poll workers had a stack of the sample ballots that were mailed to the homes of the voters whose names were not listed on the list at the polling place.

I don't know whether the counting of the provisional and other ballots will change the percentages, but I suspect they will to some extent, large or small. Probably the outcome will be better for Bernie, but how would I or anyone else know for sure?

It was a shameful mess.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #40)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 08:18 AM

41. That's not good. In the South bay, where I am, friends and family did not have

issues when they went to the polls, and my daughter who is in the East Bay, same thing at her polling place.

Your situation sounds like it was a mess.

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Response to creeksneakers2 (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 06:59 PM

10. Utter nonsense.

Everything, and I mean everything, you've written here about California provisional ballots and NPP voters is incorrect.

NPP voters were to be given non-partisan ballots, not provisional ballots. This is stated clearly in the website you, yourself, linked to.

Provisional ballots are to be given to California voters in only two cases: (1) voters whose names are not appearing on the voter registration list at the polling place, and (2) voters who chose to vote by mail but never received their vote-by-mail ballots.

NPP voters should never have been given provisionsl ballots unless they happened to fall into one of the two categories above.

Stop disseminating misinformation.

Description of Non-Partisan Ballots

Explanation of Provisional Ballots

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Response to Old Crow (Reply #10)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 07:28 PM

12. You are right

The video mixed it up too. I don't see the difference. The votes Sanders lost were because of the rules or incompetence, not because of fraud.

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Response to creeksneakers2 (Reply #12)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 07:48 PM

16. No, the video didn't make the same mistake; only you did.

The point the videomaker was making was that at least one class of pollworkers in training were told to give provisional ballots to No Party Preference voters, which contradicts California election law.

As to how much of what occurred in California was a result of incompetence and how much was a result of fraud, that's hard to say. All the instructor of that one class had to do was read off the California Secretary of State's website, which has the information on NPP voters and provisional ballots correct. Instead, he gave the class misinformation. Just an innocent mistake? Perhaps.

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Response to Old Crow (Reply #16)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 07:57 PM

18. I think the point of the video is that

they weren't told about Democratic crossover ballots. If the voter received a NPP ballot there wouldn't have been a place to vote for Bernie anyway. If they were given a provisional ballot would there have been? I don't know who gets what.

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Response to creeksneakers2 (Reply #18)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 08:27 PM

21. I agree with you there.

A couple other points, which we may or may not agree on. My primary interest here, even as a Bernie supporter, is just to try to bring some clarity to the situation.

1. This video makes a lot of sweeping, overblown claims. I think it makes some important points, but it's more clearly the result of passion than reason.

2. That said, the way California treats its NPP voters in primaries--even when the letter of the law is scrupulously followed--is so grossly unfair as to border on farce.
• NPP voters were first to be given an NPP ballot--which doesn't even list the presidential candidates.
• If the NPP voter noticed this and asked about it ("How can I vote for Senator Sanders with this?", pollworkers were specifically instructed NOT to mention crossover ballots, but to simply state: "Sorry, NPP ballots do not have presidential candidates on them."
• Only if the NPP voter said the magic words, "I want to surrender my ballot in return for a Democratic crossover ballot," was the voter then provided a ballot that would allow him or her to vote for Bernie Sanders (or any other presidential candidate).

Ridiculous and contrary to all spirit of democracy. You would think only a corrupt banana republic would devise such hoops for a voter to jump through, but no.

Here's an article that goes into the Byzantine California NPP voter rules in more detail:
"How California's Primary Was Rigged Against Independent Voters"

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Response to Old Crow (Reply #10)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 12:28 AM

31. The voter roles were not properly updated. Voters who had registered were not on the

printed lists. Some we checked were listed on the internet as eligible to vote.

It was a total mess.

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Response to creeksneakers2 (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 07:37 PM

13. Did you see the poll worker in this video?

I remember this video before the CA primary. Whoever lied to her and others undergoing training committed fraud, for one.

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Response to MrMickeysMom (Reply #13)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 07:48 PM

17. She says there were 18 people in her class

There is no reason to believe this was anything other than an error by the instructor. She and the video apply that to all of CA, which one class of 18 people does not do. And the right answer was in the handbook. The video says this is the biggest part of their wild claim that two out of three Sanders votes were thrown out.

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Response to creeksneakers2 (Reply #17)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 09:12 PM

23. creeksneakers while she intitial speaks of her class of 18 later on in the video she talks about

all poll workers being instructed to give provisional ballots and not the democratic cross over ballot…She did say that she verified that the 90 page book did have the correct answer. The instructor video did not, and that is where this becomes a point of contention.


The video lists three issues that happened simultaneously to believe that this is more than technical error.




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Response to midnight (Reply #23)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 10:53 PM

29. They weren't supposed to give a crossover ballot

unless they were asked for one. That's the rule. She didn't say the crossover ballot was even mentioned in her class. She doesn't know what happened in the rest of CA. She only knows what happened in her class. She should have been told to give the crossover ballot upon request though, so her class wasn't right.

The CA rules are very confusing and I wouldn't be surprised if lots of mix-ups happened. That's not fraud though, and I don't see how it come anywhere close to two out of three Sanders votes being tossed like the video claims.

We don't know who made the video. I was wondering if it was Republicans trying to piss off Sanders voters so they would stay home or vote for Trump in the fall.

I covered another issue. None of them could account for a 12 point difference.

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Response to creeksneakers2 (Reply #17)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 12:35 AM

32. Sorry, but . . . read this.

More than 2.5 million ballots were left uncounted on election day across California, a process that could take several days or longer and leave close races in limbo.

Secretary of State Alex Padilla posted a report late Thursday on unprocessed ballots. Most of that total -- about 1.8 million -- were mailed to voters but returned only on Tuesday.

Six million ballots have already been counted from the statewide primary. The uncounted tally would push total voter turnout to about 8.5 million, or around 47% of all registered voters.

Los Angeles County had more unprocessed ballots than anywhere, about 616,000. San Diego County reported 285,000 uncounted ballots.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-california-primary-there-are-more-than-2-5-million-1465520381-htmlstory.html

How or how much the final tally will be changed, I could not guess. But the counting is not complete. There are a lot of votes to be counted. At least three counties have been switched from the Hillary to the Bernie column thus far. Don't know how the uncounted ballots will affect the overall total count.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #32)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 05:00 PM

42. No reason to be sorry

Thanks for the link.

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Response to creeksneakers2 (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 08:44 PM

22. creeksneakers2 the poll workers were told to give out a ballot that wouldn't be counted.

Then after complaining about training at the county level….All poll workers not being instructed to give cross over ballots… That was the first method that this link mentions.

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Response to midnight (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 06:14 PM

4. You forgot to mention Body Snatchers

 

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Response to Night Watchman (Reply #4)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 07:40 PM

15. No face palm on behalf of those who want to vote...

Only face palm on of those who think that's not to be taken seriously.

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Response to MrMickeysMom (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 09:13 PM

24. Nicely said…

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Response to Night Watchman (Reply #4)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 09:58 PM

28. You can remember your face palm when republicans use that on your candidate during the general

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Response to midnight (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 06:34 PM

6. Source

What was the source of this particular video, as I have looked for it. I do believe there are concerns, as the RICO suit is pending certification of California's votes, within 30 days of the primary.

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Response to dogandturtlemom (Reply #6)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 06:46 PM

8. I believe that was Hal speaking.

I don't know where he's been all these years.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #8)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 06:57 PM

9. Source

Funny, but I am serious, I would like the source. I do not trust non sourced videos.

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Response to dogandturtlemom (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 07:07 PM

11. Well, I don't trust any video that sounds like propaganda...

and that one sure did. Especially if the voice sounds like a computer. What, is no one willing to stand up and speak on this video as a real person and admit who they are?

I don't trust documentaries that use propaganda to get their message across either.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #33)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 12:49 AM

35. Oh, I know there are uncounted ballots,

they said it would take a long time to get them counted. I'm hoping when they are done, Bernie will have accrued a lot more votes, but I doubt all those votes will go to Sanders.

That doesn't make this video any more palatable to me.

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Response to dogandturtlemom (Reply #6)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 08:08 PM

19. Oops sorry dogandturtlemom… I will see if I can find it.

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Response to dogandturtlemom (Reply #6)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 08:09 PM

20. The source of the video is a YouTuber named Scott Hunt.

Apparently, he's just an individual with an interest in the election who took it upon himself to make the video. He doesn't present himself as any kind of authority. On the YouTube page featuring the video, he does provide a number of links, including a link to the original article he says he used as the basis of his video.

YouTube page featuring video

Original article video was based on

Hope this helps.

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Response to Old Crow (Reply #20)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 09:15 PM

25. Thank you Old Crow.

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Response to midnight (Reply #25)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 09:40 PM

27. My pleasure, Midnight. :) (N/T)

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Response to midnight (Original post)

Sun Jun 12, 2016, 07:40 PM

14. No Poll

Had either Hillary or Bernie ahead by 38 points.this is Bull$h!t...!

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Response to videohead5 (Reply #14)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 12:37 AM

34. A lot of votes had not been counted by Tuesday evening.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-california-primary-there-are-more-than-2-5-million-1465520381-htmlstory.html

How the counting will affect the final outcome I do not know, but I believe that three counties have flipped since Tuesday from the Hillary to the Bernie column.

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Response to videohead5 (Reply #14)

Mon Jun 13, 2016, 01:12 AM

37. not to the Bernie Mathers

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