Sanders: Clinton can't lead a Political Revolution

[berniesandero]

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[EdwardBernays]

1. I don't know

She revolutionized how to make money off of selling access to power.

[lewebley3]

29. Sanders can't lead a relvoution either: he was rejected by many people

[FighttheFuture]

39. No, people voted for the corporatism alternative. It's akin to Stockholm Syndrome.

Not to mention the process was heavily tilted in the Bankers Choice's favor in a variety of ways.

As Matt Taibbi of RS pointed out:

This was no ordinary primary race, not a contest between warring factions within the party establishment, á la Obama-Clinton in '08 or even Gore-Bradley in '00. This was a barely quelled revolt that ought to have sent shock waves up and down the party, especially since the Vote of No Confidence overwhelmingly came from the next generation of voters.
:
If they had any brains, Beltway Dems and their clucky sycophants like Capeheart would not be celebrating this week. They ought to be horrified to their marrow that the all-powerful Democratic Party ended up having to dig in for a furious rally to stave off a quirky Vermont socialist almost completely lacking big-dollar donors or institutional support.

[LaydeeBug]

47. I don't have Stockholm Syndrome. How many Banking Bills did Bernie submit, like EVER? nt

[FighttheFuture]

83. And that's why you support a person who's cleary in line with Wall Street and the bankers? Mmm.. ok

While I will vote for Hillary if she is the nominee, which it looks like she will be, I have no illusions who is lining her pockets and whom she will be beholden too. Bernie is not beholden to them.

Also, just off the top of my head, he has been pushing for the Post Office to provide banking services. Something the bankers are very much against. He has been saying to break up the Banks and Wall street; the too big to fail institutions, for quite some time.

[LaydeeBug]

84. again...HOW many bills did Bernie introduce? Because talk is cheap

so how many?

[LaydeeBug]

86. Nice try. No dice. It *is* the conversation..like exactly

Bernie has not introduced ANY reform on wall street in his entire tenure in the Senate.

[FighttheFuture]

87. No it isn't. Go back and reread the thread.

Regardless:

 Senator Bernie Sanders announced legislation Wednesday that would break up the country’s largest financial institutions. It’s the third time he’s introduced such a measure, but this time around he wields the large microphone of a presidential candidate.

This is just a Bill and is not the full measure of who and what Bernie Sanders is about. Still, don't let facts confuse you.

[LaydeeBug]

88. see post #47 nt

[OwlinAZ]

60. So was Hillary

[Gomez163]

2. This must be more of that unity stuff.

[virtualobserver]

3. or maybe more of that reality stuff

[swhisper1]

10. God he has a clear mind and command of speaking

very presidential material. I cant believe he is hoping Hill will change for the people

[OwlinAZ]

61. He knows better.

After all. Shen sure did kick up some dust on the Board of Walmart.

[ish of the hammer]

8. keep going Senator Sanders - we are united behind you!

[840high]

51. Yes we are.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. It's not that she can't - she *won't*. And it was never her intent to do so.

Hillary represents the Democratic Party the way it is now - the status quo. I am not stating that as a criticism in this context; it's just a fact. She has never indicated a desire to change the underlying system, but just to place the Dem party, as it exists and represents now, in power. Sanders' intent all along has been to instigate a major change in the way we think about government, which is what he means by a political revolution. And I hope he, and everyone who voted for him, sticks with it.

[Phlem]

20. Spot On.

[apcalc]

34. She is practical.

I do not that not agree that she represents the status quo, especially with people issues -women's issues, civil rights, LGBT equality...

[pangaia]

78. She 'won't.' That is it in rwo words.

I have never seen any politician so good at calculating in my life. Of course, maybe I have just been blind also.
What is changing is that, thanks to Bernie, people are much more quickly seeing behind the curtain... She hasn't learned that yet.. She is living in that past coniving political world, and it probably will still win it for HER.

Bernie, sees like a laser and just keeps on telling the truth about it.
The emperor has been shown to be naked.

[nikto]

81. Exactly right.

Well said.

[Equinox Moon]

5. Bernie is keeping the pressure on, for the sake of Change/Reform

I wonder if there has been any other Presidential candidate that kept in it, because they believed in the change they ran on?

[swhisper1]

28. no, most of them folded under pressure. Bernie wont be blackmailed

[lewebley3]

31. If he doesn't start helping: he will be a villain

[Equinox Moon]

38. He is helping, that's the point

[chapdrum]

40. You mean selling out,

rather than "helping."

We have one massive sellout in HRC already.

[scottie55]

50. The Opposite Of Selling Out

Getting done all that is possible.

[OwlinAZ]

62. Bobby Kennedy would have.

[Equinox Moon]

66. You could be right

I don't know Bobby K. He was before my time. But from what I hear, it was a good egg.

[stonecutter357]

6. seems legit !

[CrowCityDem]

7. I don't want a revolution.

Here's something Sanders forgets; not all revolutions wind up working out. The French Revolution wound up a parade of murder. No, that wouldn't happen here, but there's no telling the consequences when you upend the entire system. I'll take steady progress with the safety of the status quo to fall back on, thank you very much.

[swhisper1]

11. they never work out if people dont try. What you call steady progress is not

progress at all.. Other nations have already surpassed the US in medical, education, renewable energy,human rights, defeating starvation, lowering childbirth deaths, inventions, tech. So, stay in the mudpuddle if you want, I will reach for betterment.

[CrowCityDem]

15. Just remember; Trump would be a 'revolution' too.

[Phlem]

21. Or Republicans, at least that's what we're told every election.

As we vote for more of the same.

[swhisper1]

24. he would certainly cause one, but you are citing civil war, which is not productive

political revolution we can all engage in without harming anyone is Bernies intent, which is why he will succeed with or without Hillarys blessing. It is her error to make and we know her past judgement has been................for war.

I think she is too smart to kick Bernie aside

[lewebley3]

32. You are correct CrowCity: revolutions are bad ideas: hardwork is needed for Change

[liberalnarb]

56. POLITICAL Revolution means that the goals of said revolution would be acheived through legislation

not violence or anything physical for that matter. No one would get hurt, and there sure as hell would be no "parade of murder". Also, I wouldn't exactly call the status quo "safe" considering the economic situations of so many.

[CrowCityDem]

59. I'm just saying you can't control a revolution. You can't say nothing bad will happen.

[passiveporcupine]

57. So basically you are not living in poverty,

or watching your wealth and income decline each year, and you don't care about those who are seeing this in their lives?

Because Hillary is not going to do anything to change the economic dynamic that is happening in this country. Her trade and wall street policies will just make it worse. She may try to pass a few 'pragmatic' changes, like raising taxes slightly on the wealthy, but will easily give up when a republican congress shuts them down.

For the past 30 years or so, there has been no steady progress in our lives economically, only for those who are upper middle class and climbing, and above. The middle class is shrinking and our poverty levels are rising. Is that the steady change you are for?

Socially we've been seeing steady change (but not always...things seem to be going backward on women's rights in conservative states. So not all social change is progressing.

Social change isn't enough. We need to see our country growing stronger again and the only way to do that is to build up the middle class again and minimize or eliminate poverty. Our children are suffering now.

[Gamecock Lefty]

9. Bernie can't even win the Dem Party nomination.

I'm not sure how much of a revolution he can lead falling 3.7M votes short. But, sure, whatever Bern man. Keep on lecturing us.

[swhisper1]

13. because his revolutionaries reach far beyond Dems. Even election fraud could not silence

Bernie and his followers grow every day. Hillary can join in the battle or fade into history and be another footnote, thats her choice. I suspect she will choose world domination thru war and forget the american people altogether.

[L. Coyote]

53. Your suspicions are certainly imaginative and quite florid, like hallicinations I imagine.

Hopefully you don't believe them yourself and are just ranting.

Presidents don't fade into history, losers do.

[swhisper1]

58. nixon , both a pres and a loser. W also a pres and a loser

double indemnity, two for one

[Melissa G]

22. Point of Fact: Hillary has not won the Dem nomination either

She is currently leads in delegates and there is plenty of evidence that that lead is questionable.See here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280212207

If Hillary had won the Dem nomination we would not still be having this discussion.

[lewebley3]

33. She was won: Sanders has lost: he lost fair and sqaure

[Melissa G]

46. 2,383 delegate votes needed to win

The pledged delegate vote count is below that for both candidates. The rest of the delegates do not vote until July 25th.
That is why Hillary is the Presumptive nominee and Not the Nominee.

[liberal N proud]

12. I am looking for someone who can lead the country

Not everything has to be a revolution.

[swhisper1]

14. you cannot lead a country that is owned by corporations

[chapdrum]

42. Exactly.

Bernie at least wants to try.

HRC wants to enable.

Been there, done that.

[L. Coyote]

43. Corporations, that Yuuuge generality, includes Bernie supporters, but no coprporation can be Prez.

The country is not owned by corporations, the wealthy and powerful have outsized political influence. Yuuuge distinction.

[OwlinAZ]

63. Can you be a little clearer?

[L. Coyote]

71. I'm trying to get someone else to be a LOT clearer about their speech and thinking.

Corporations exist and anyone can incorporate a business. Including people who support Bernie Sanders. Warren Buffett can form a corporation, you best friends can too. I've presided over a corporaion and been the accounting officer for one.

How many of your friends own corporations or stock in them? How many people have retirement funds with stock? Are they all evil Republican plutocrats. No.

[swhisper1]

76. Im a corp too. Not all corp buy polititians, dont be flippant.

but the multinationals thrive on it

[swhisper1]

67. I have to argue with that All communications, pricesetting and votes in congress are dominently

owned by corporations many of which are international corps with fingers in many pies, wars and civil rights infractions. No one can argue that.

[L. Coyote]

72. Now you are maligning the Democratic Party and our fine reps and senators.

Some of whom are friends, and I take offense. If you want to accuse people of corruption, produce evidence against individuals, don't broadbrush everyone except yourself.

[swhisper1]

75. oh my god. bye-bye

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

35. Indeed

An evolution is generally less violent

[L. Coyote]

73. But it only takes a few thousand years to rebuild civilization, so let's all revolt now.

Some people have no notion of history or consequences.

[iandhr]

16. Neither can you buddy.

To lead a "political revolution" you need a majority of the voters. A technicality I know but still the case.

[swhisper1]

25. He has the majority of americans. the 99% are listening and jumping on board

when Hill signs the TTP, the DNC will suffer greatly, probably fatally for the 3rd way traitors

[Renew Deal]

17. The "political revolution" is a fraud based on a premise that the voters rejected

[swhisper1]

26. correction-half the dems rejected, not the 99%

[Renew Deal]

27. Your math doesn't add up

Unsurprisingly

[Baitball Blogger]

18. She's not trying to lead a political revolution.

She wants the process to remain the same.

[Phlem]

19. She IS the Status quo.

Clinton kills revolutions. The money flow must be maintained.

Yeay Clinton!

[yallerdawg]

23. Nope - no revolution.

44 men and counting...

[dcbuckeye]

36. Most Dems don't want a revolution

As evidenced by the results of the recent primary election

[patsimp]

37. He's still attacking the presumed nominee of our party?

[Saviolo]

48. Not really...

Some people just don't want a revolution. Lots of people on the left are just not interested, they want progress, but not a lot all at once. Change is scary to a lot of people, and smaller, incremental change is far easier to swallow.

It's a selling point to a lot of people. There are plenty of folks who just don't want a political revolution, and there's nothing wrong with that. They want someone experienced and competent who won't try to make massive sweeping changes, and Hillary fits that bill just fine.

Somewhere there has to be an understanding between the two sides. Those that are frustrated and want a massive political change, and those that feel like Obama's advances over the last 8 years, though incremental, will add up slowly to big change over a longer period.

Both sides don't have to agree on tactics or anything, but can everyone at least agree that both sides have valid points to make?

[swhisper1]

68. if she were for change I would agree with you, but I do not see sincerety from her.

we will see very soon who she stands for. $12 minimum wage but not for 7 yrs is just stupid. The people need it today with $15 in a year. When she pushes for stupid thinking like that, she does not want change, kids are starving TODAY, bridges are falling TODAY, schools are closing TODAY. The snails pace isnt going to work

[L. Coyote]

41. Yes she can, but the job description isn't "lead a political revolution" now is it. Plus ....

To elect a woman as president of the United States is a political revolution in its own right.

[Jack Rabbit]

45. Was making Maggie Thatcher the PM a revolution in Britain?

And Britain has had a woman as head of state since 1953. In fact Britain has has a woman as head of state for 133 of the last 179 years, but no one would anything too revolutionary about Queen Victoria.

[Night Watchman]

44. She doesn't WANT to lead a Political Revolution

She a pragmatist, as am I. Incrementalism may not be sexy, but that's how this country rolls.

[maindawg]

49. Storm is coming

About 4 years ago, on this forum I predicted that there was coming a very dramatic uprising of the progressive, liberal voter. The reason I saw that coming was the very deep division in our country between the people who refused to acknowledge reality. Mainly ,the Republicans, and I knew they were marginalizing themselves the further to the right they pushed, the fewer of them there were.
Since then we have dealt with the Bundy phenomena that has exposed the para military idiots for the clowns they are. We have witnessed the spectacle that was the Republican primary . How can you deny reality and expect the people to take you seriously? Now they are left with a Norman clown who could not run a day care center. A criminal , a thief a trust fund fake billionaire. And who do they expect us to fall behind ? The establishment ? Really ?
I called this ,I saw it coming ,it was obvious. I did not expect Bernie Sanders. But now that he's here, he's honest, and he's got the experience to do the job. He has a great track record, he has accomplished and he is well liked I'll say that again, HE IS WELL LiKED by all 426 members of Congress and all 100. Senators. The only people who don't like Bernie are the Clinton's and their supporters.
Progressive ,liberal people all support Bernie. It's not a fluke. It did not occur in the past 6 months. It has been a long time coming. I saw the word , incrimental earlier in this thread. Americans do move rather slowly. But I am one who has been engaged in displacing the establishment since 1970. I have been patient. We all have. We are many.
We are 43% of the electorate. Bill Clinton win the presidency with 39% of the vote in 1991. He won because we progressives voted for him.
Ross Perot split the Republican party in 1991 . The radicals split from the establishment you see ?
Now in 2016 Bernie has split the Democratic party. We progressives are not the radicals. We are the realists. We understand that we are getting screwed we are tired of being lied to we are tired of the propaganda war being waged against us our families and the rest of the planet. We have had enough of the slaughter of innocent people so that American billionaires can get richer. We demand an honest government we expect the law to mean something. Sick of the privatization of the war on the poor, us. Si k of it.

We are tired of your talking points. Tired of hate radio , we demand that civility be reinstalled by restoring the fairness doctrine. We demand a right to an acceptable standard of living. An expansion of social security benefits. Public health insurance through medicare ,should have been done 70years ago.
They shipped 70,000 young men to Vietnam and they all came home dead. I will never forget .They killed some 100,000 people in Iraq that's not acceptable. That matters. Iraq lives matter. Thats what the establishment does not understand. When you massacre poor people we don't forget. We aren't as stupid as you think.
Storm is coming.

[Phlem]

52. +1000

I'll be in that Storm.

[swhisper1]

69. thank you dawg, I am part of that storm. I dont forget and I dont lay down

[geek tragedy]

54. Clinton doesn't claim to be a revolutionary.

she's a candidate for the presidency, not a movement leader

[OwlinAZ]

64. She is a corporate paraclete of the Trilateral Commission stripe

[geek tragedy]

65. that's a classic, 3 more days! nt

[L. Coyote]

74. Correlation between post count and Republican talking points is higher than the probability Bush

stole the Presidency twice!

[lapucelle]

55. I'm new here, checking out threads, stopping by to say hi.

My goodness, this is certainly a spirited debate.

There's nothing wrong with debate. We all have a lot to learn from each other.

To me the important thing is making sure Trump doesn't win the White House. Donald wants the trappings, the pomp, the salutes, and the fanfare. God only knows who'll be pulling the strings behind a Trump presidency. We have to be vigilant.

I hope we can all come together and stay strong through November.

[swhisper1]

70. wear your armour for the next 3 days lapucelle, but if you need to vent , go to the other site

[The_Casual_Observer]

77. This is very boring.

[misterhighwasted]

79. Um..Well she's whooping your "revoluuution" mr sanders.

Jus sayin..

[Buzz cook]

80. Revolution is of and by the people

No one leads one, they just get in front and hope not to get run over. Ask Danton.

While all Sanders talk of revolution is very romantic, it ain't the real thing.

[nikto]

82. Just ask the DNC for the TRUTH...

REAL revolution can be accomplished only by banks and investor groups.

The GOP has known this for decades.

Now, smart DNCers (and Hillary) have realized this too.