Chuck Todd: 'It Galls Me' Bill Clinton Hasn't Apologized to Monica Lewinsky for 'Ruining Her Life'

[DonViejo]

[notdarkyet]

1. Fu Todd.

[olegramps]

27. It surprises me anyone would watch that twit.

[brush]

2. Didn't she ruin her own life by disclosing what happened between them?

[aka-chmeee]

38. Seems to me that her life was ruined by rebublican desperation to damage Clinton

and the loose lips of her "friend" Linda.

[rock]

3. That is pretty damn funny!

[JaneQPublic]

4. Monica was a consenting adult.

She has never claimed to be a victim.

Granted, Clinton's actions violated any basic standards for workplace ethics, insofar as a boss shouldn't get involved with a subordinate. But he hardly ruined her life.

Chuck is trying to lump Monica in with the Me, Too movement women who were indeed harassed, manipulated, and abused against their will. Monica, based on her phone conversations with Linda Tripp, doesn't deserve to be included with those women.

[Uncle Joe]

7. That's correct, she was all of 22

https://www.ted.com/talks/monica_lewinsky_the_price_of_shame

[JaneQPublic]

12. If the public believes 22 is too young to consent, then the law should be changed.

But I doubt many would support that.

At age 22, my mother was raising three children alone while my dad was in the service during WWII.

Monica made bad choices, but she was an adult and should own up to them.

[Uncle Joe]

16. She does in the Ted Talk Video n/t

[FBaggins]

17. The question to ask is "why did it violate standards for workplace ethics"

Why should a supervisor not get involved with a subordinate?

The answer would indicate that he did indeed owe her an apology. Shaming her doesn't change that.

Note - We have no way of knowing that he didn't.

[JaneQPublic]

20. Acknowledging she was an adult at the time with adult accountability does not constitute shaming.

Likewise, treating her like some fragile little girl, a victim incapable of making her own decisions, is as offensive as shaming.

No judgment, but the fact is that she pretty much started things with Clinton, by flirting and showing him her thong underwear straps (which also would violate standards for workplace ethics).

See the WP timeline: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/timeline.htm

Does BC owe ML a public apology? I'd guess that's between them. Both have publicly expressed regret. More importantly, has she ever asked for an apology? Or is this just one of Todd's personal obsessions?

[FBaggins]

22. Actually it can

Depending on how you you answer the question in #17.

No judgment, but the fact is that she pretty much started things with Clinton, by flirting and showing him her thong underwear straps

Um... did you think that putting "no judgment" in front of that sentence would keep it from sounding exactly like the classic shaming defense? She wasn't just consenting but was literally "asking for it"?

[JaneQPublic]

23. So was the WP timeline of events also shaming her?

Because that's where I got the information.

You are putting words in my mouth. I was not making any "defense" and said absolutely nothing about "asking for it." I was just stating facts from the timeline.

Look up "Straw Man Argument." It's always easier to win a debate when you mischaracterize what the other person says.

[FBaggins]

24. Raises the interesting question

Do you think it isn't obvious why you're dodging the key question?

Why is it always inappropriate for a senior executive to have even a consentual sexual relationship with a subordinate many levels below him/her? Or a college professor with an adult student?

The answer to that question informs the rest of the conversation.

Hint - whether the subordinate "started it" or "wanted it" doesn't impact the correct answer in any way.

[Honeycombe8]

45. +1. This situation is the essence of sexual harassment in the workplace.

A much younger subordinate, in contact with a very powerful boss (this one was the leader of the free world, and known to be a player), gets involved in a sexual relationship with the boss.

She - 22. He - 45 to 50? The leader of the free world and married.

She should take some responsibility for her actions, but it was up to HIM not to abuse the young subordinate's infatuation with him, and take advantage, given his powerful position and age. IMO. I believe the law would also back that viewpoint up.

But it is different that he didn't come on to her first (to my understanding), making it a situation where she would fear for her internship.

IMO, he clearly took advantage. Sure, a lot of middle aged married men would. But that doesn't make it okay, and I think all can agree that at a minimum, this situation was different, given who the middle aged married man was.

Should he apologize? He should be remorseful, but I'm not sure apologies would help anything.

[bettyellen]

53. popular use of the phrase "she was asking for it" is usually applied to women who do nothing but

exist. Showing people your ass flesh would be more often called “making the first move”. And she flexed her power with threats later, didn’t she?

[LanternWaste]

50. Only she knows if one if owed or not

"The answer would indicate that he did indeed owe her an apology..."

Only she knows if one if owed or not.

That said, could you point to the specific language you allege is 'shaming' her, and explain objectively how it can be validly interpreted as nothing other than 'shaming her?'

[FBaggins]

58. Her opinion on that appears to have evolved

But that wasn't my point re: "the answer"

There are two positions involved in the question that I'm asking. One says that any sexual relationship between two consenting "adults" (with some variability in how that is defined) is just between the two of them and not open to societal judgement. If one or both are married it might be relevant to the spouse(s), but isn't our business.

The other position says that when the disparity in power is large enough, it isn't possible for the junior member of the relationship to truly consent. This is similar to the concept of statutory rape. A 14 year old might actually be attracted to a 30 year old and "want" the relationship... but we define legally that he/she is not capable of consenting in that scenario. Apart from age disparity, relationships like the ones discussed (college professor with student or business executive with junior subordinate) have a large enough disparity in power between the two that it complicates the notion of "consent".

By that second position... she is owed an apology whether she realizes it or not.

Re: her thought "evolution". She recently wrote an essay for Vanity Fair:

“Now, at 44, I’m beginning (just beginning) to consider the implications of the power differentials that were so vast between a president and a White House intern,” Lewinsky writes in her essay published online Sunday. “I’m beginning to entertain the notion that in such a circumstance the idea of consent might well be rendered moot.” She added that power imbalances and the ability to abuse them “do exist even when the sex has been consensual.”

[Civic Justice]

54. We can be certain Bill did not have to give her any training cues on how to do what she wanted to do

So... let's talk about individual adult self responsibility.... Clinton does not owe her an apology.

First she knew he was married, and she descended upon her own knees, and from the photo's where she was front and center at his speaking engagements, she was quite pleased with the access she had to give and do what she wanted to give and do.

It use to be men who'd run and tell everybody whom they hooked up, now... women dominate that role... of "running to tell", one can't turn on the various web sites, without a list telling about whom they "hooked up"....

Life is not like the old fantasy delusions of let's pretend we did not do anything, as was done in the Victorian Era

[samnsara]

57. i still remember how she described pulling up her coat jacket to 'reveal thong

...undies underneath'.....

[Loki Liesmith]

5. It kinda took them both to do that

[Arkansas Granny]

6. I am so tired of the pity party for Monica Lewinsky. She was a grown woman and deliberatly

set about to seduce a married man who had a reputation of being a womanizer.

Should Bill have known better? Of course, he should have and I'm still pissed at him for his atrocious behavior. However, that does not make Monica a victim. She ruined her own life by her own bad decision.

[Mike Nelson]

8. Hey, Chuck...

… young women enjoy sex, just like men! Monica had a right to exploit her adventure, too... he should have seen her coming, but whatever. Imagine what other things must "gall" you....

[Sanity Claws]

9. Idiot

Linda Smart and Ken Starr owe her an apology.

Bill should have known better but both were consenting adults. Does Chucky not understand the concept of consent in sex?

[mikeysnot]

29. Linda Tripp?

Linda Tripp egged her on so she can use it against Bill.

[Sanity Claws]

36. Yes Linda Tripp

I don't know where the other Linda name came from. LOL.

[mikeysnot]

44. isn't she the one that drowned her kids and then blamed

a Black person?

[thucythucy]

10. It galls me that Chuck Todd hasn't apologized

for the miserable job he did reporting on the 2016 election.

An actual journalist would have tracked down the Russian influence story as soon as Trump's campaign manager had to resign due to his ongoing ties to a foreign, hostile power. Which was months before the election.

But he was too busy shouting "e-mails!!" and repeating RW talking points to do anything approaching actual journalism.

[JaneQPublic]

21. Bingo!

Excellent point.

[unblock]

11. has she ever claimed her life is "ruined"?

she has celebrity she wouldn't otherwise have had, and she used it for a while to sell handbags.

yes, it cuts both ways and her notoriety can work against her, too. nevertheless, she likely has more options than should would had she remained a no-name intern.

i googled her net worth and it's pegged at half a million. that may not be accurate and it's certainly possible to have a "ruined" life even with a nice bank account, but still, it's not like she's broke.


what really matters is how she views her life. i might have missed it, but i don't think she has ever said her life was "ruined".

[lapfog_1]

19. she glommed on to the #metoo movement

claiming (falsely) that Bill may have forced himself on her.

However, there was testimony from one of her friends during the "monica affair" that she went to Washingtion D.C. tp get her "presidential kneepads"

http://articles.latimes.com/1998/jan/28/news/mn-13032

She wasn't a innocent victim... and Clinton wasn't Harvey Weinstein or Bill Cosby.

That said, Bill should have known better and it's never good to have an affair with an office co-worker where you are in a power differential with the co-worker... i.e. don't have sex with any subordinates.

[empedocles]

13. Not a big Clinton fan, but

My recollection was that Monica instigated and made all? the moves, and it seems would have 'done more and more' , had BC went along.

[Wwcd]

15. Fair point. It didn't bother her she was chasing a married man?

With Stars in her eyes & she went against all moral & value the women's movement now stands for.

Did she consider BC's wife or young daughter?
Apparently not.
That deal was a 2 way street & she was never innocent.

She knows the truth & so does her confidant, Linda Tripp.
Can't ever convince me she & BC were the only players in that business.

Considering all the Pukes who were out to stop BC, everyone from Roger Stone, to George Conway, to Henry Hyde, Gingrich & the tools that scoured Arkansas for the many tell-all "victims".

Sounds like BC was Frankened by the same m.o. and the same players.

Yet they say not a word about the many sex scandals of the GOP.

Their purity is conveniently one sided & intentional, I'd say.

Lewinsky was the perfect "victim".
She gets nothing from me.

[homegirl]

43. Monica

made it impossible for nearby office staff to keep her away from Bill.

[Texin]

14. Clinton didn't do this without Lewinsky.

She was a more than willing participant in their activities. That said, and regardless of whether she's bemoaning her "ruination" today (or they are trying to create a sort of "Me Too" moment), she was a very young woman and the POTUS, a mature man with a wife and young daughter, should have kept his junk in his pants and not sullied the office or put her in a position for possible exposure to humiliation and excoriation by the media and the people. The only thing that Clinton should have done was to remember where he was, and the fact that he was married, otherwise no apology was necessary.

[Va Lefty]

18. I'm sorry but didn't her "friend" Linda Tripp ruin her life?

plenty of blame for what Clinton did, but he didn't record private phone conversations and turn them over to Kenneth Starr.

[Liberalagogo]

25. But Chuck

what do actual journalists think about this?

[saidsimplesimon]

26. Chuck Todd can bloviate

on all sides of an issue. Imho, he is not entertaining, and appears quite lazy in creating new material for his show.

[erpowers]

28. Please Explain; What is Wrong With These People?

Please explain to me how Bill Clinton ruined Monica Lewinsky's life? What is wrong with these two claiming Monica Lewinsky was a child? Monica Lewinsky was a 25 year old woman who, as far as I know, pursued a married man. Now, yes, Bill Clinton should have turned her down because he was married, but she also should not have pursued a married man. If Ms. Lewinsky had not pursued a married man her life would not have been affected. Finally, I am not sure I would say Monica Lewinsky's life was ruined. Hasn't Lewinsky been giving Ted Talks? Hasn't she been writing for some magazine? So, Monica Lewinsky has not gotten the Kim K treatment for doing what made Kim K a famous celebrity. I would not say that means her life was ruined; I would say she was not rewarded for giving a man a blow job. At most, Monica Lewinsky was ahead of her time.

[Uncle Joe]

34. Yes, Ted Talk on post number #7 but her age at the time was 22 n/t

[erpowers]

40. Thank You For the Correction

Thank you for the correction, but I still think she was old enough to know better. Clinton was also old enough to know better. However, I do not see how her life was destroyed by Bill Clinton.

[Uncle Joe]

41. It didn't destroy her but I would respectfully advise anyone to view the TED Talks video

to get a better understanding of how it did impact her life in 98, in her own words.

[CTyankee]

42. I think that Bill Clinton should have taken a much more active part in keeping Monica away from

him. He was, after all, the most powerful man in the world. He could have made sure his aides didn't let her past the door at the WH and he didn't.

I agree that Monica's life was affected negatively but she did do what she could with her life.

[muntrv]

30. It falls me that

Chuck Todd won't remove his lips from Trumps buttocks.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

31. Chuck

Shave the dirt off your face. Tired of you. CT thinks a LOT of himself. Monica got her spurs and made a career out of what she didi. She's no angel.

[Wellstone ruled]

32. Wow,this POS just keeps

promoting Ring Wing garbage. He never was a Journalist and never will be one.

Just another Propagandist for the Rethugs.

[pbmus]

33. Sounds like little chuckle wants his own apology....

[dlk]

35. Todd Needs to Call for All of the Hysterical/Judgmental Republican Zealots to Apologize to Lewinsky

They are the ones who "ruined her life."

[katmondoo]

37. Chuck Todd can kiss my ass

[geardaddy]

39. Todd is a POS

[Mr.Bill]

46. It galls me that

Monica Lewinski hasn't apologized to Hillary Clinton for seducing her husband.

[Uncle Joe]

47. She did in 2007

[Mr.Bill]

48. Thanks. I had not heard that.

[Lil Missy]

49. It galls me Monica kept a dress with semen on it. WTF??

It also galls me that Linda Tripp never apologized to either Monica or Clinton for embellishing and weaponizing a private encounter between consenting adults.

[grumpyduck]

51. They keep bringing up old stuff

Can't wait to have them piss on G Washington for chopping down that cherry tree.

Or for how a guy dumb enough to stand up that way on a rowboat could become president.

[RandySF]

52. HE DID!!!!!!!!

[BeyondGeography]

55. This issue is such a loser for us

And it would have dogged HRC as President in a major way. All I have to say is, thanks again, Bill.

[samnsara]

56. monica knew what she was doing..

...and with whom. Why do you think she did it?