OLBERMANN VS. TRUMP #54: TRUMP LOST HIS ABILITY TO PARDON ANY COUP CONSPIRATORS - INCLUDING HIMSELF

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

[Arne]

1. Saw this one hour ago, any verification of that claim?

[sabbat hunter]

5. Until he is removed from

office he can pardon anyone. However, pardoning himself would be an admission of guilt, and can be used in an impeachment trial against him, since a pardon cannot be used to avoid an impeachment/trial.

[TheBlackAdder]

11. But, Olbermann says just Impeached, not removed from office or convicted in the senate.

.

Perhaps we've been misled as to how it's interpreted.

I wonder who sourced the original both houses interpretation?

.

[sabbat hunter]

13. back in 1998/99

Bill Clinton pardoned 34 people between his impeachment on Dec 19, 1998 and his acquittal on Feb 12, 1999.

[TheBlackAdder]

16. Perhas those were invalid too.

[cstanleytech]

25. Did he pardon anyone involved in what he was accused of that led to his impeachment though?

[soldierant]

18. It's worded in such a way as to be open to interpretation.

It's never been tested, so there's no real precedent. If he tries to pardon someone between no'w and the inauguration, and the pardon is challenged, and the challenge succeeds, you can be a whole lot of other pardons he issued since January 2-020 are also going to be challenged.

[sabbat hunter]

20. from a lawyer

[soldierant]

24. LegalEagle is knowledgeable certainly.

But when challenges come up they have been known to change things.

[pnwmom]

23. Another possibility is that any pardons given between the impeachment and the trial

could be invalid if he's convicted -- but be valid if he's not.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

29. Thanks.

I'm very law-deficient, but I was skeptical because I'd never heard it mentioned elsewhere.

So it's a "maybe."

[sabbat hunter]

14. Keith should have done his homework

Clinton pardoned people after his impeachment, but before his acquittal in 98/99

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

19. Were they related to his impeachment?

What Keith is saying Trump cannot pardon anyone associated with the riot and inserrection. He is not saying Trump cannnot pardon anyone else,

[SheltieLover]

2. K&R!

[niyad]

3. Ooops for the murdering, orange traitor.

KOEB

[badboy67]

4. SCOTUS will step in to save Trump,

6-3.

[sabbat hunter]

6. Roberts

has no love for Trump. it would be 5-4.

[PoliticAverse]

15. Sorry, it'd be 9-0 allowing the pardons, except a self-pardon..

which would be 9-0 against allowing it.

[rsdsharp]

7. He's just wrong. The clause means he can't stop or undo

an impeachment or its conviction. It doesn’t mean he loses the power to pardon (unless convicted). He was impeached in December 2019. He’s pardoned people since then. They are as valid as they are sickening.

[bucolic_frolic]

8. That impeachment was cleared when he was acquitted.

[TheBlackAdder]

12. Was he not Impeached? Now twice. It doesn't say anything about a senate conviction/acquittal.

[rsdsharp]

17. It's still bullshit. He has all the powers of the presidency

until noon on the 20th, or if he is convicted before then. He can’t undo an impeachment, but he still has the pardon power.

[notinkansas]

22. No - it wasn't cleared.

He was not convicted, but he will be forever impeached.

[FreepFryer]

27. "Cleared" impeachment? What's that? (Nt)

[bucolic_frolic]

9. KO is right, make the case that new Trump pardons are invalid, and let the judge rule

That's how you make case law. You challenge it, and argue, and let the courts rule. That's how you make IRS Tax Law. That's how you develop precedent. That's how courts interpret the law to specific cases.

That's why, as Glen Kirschner argued today, you arrest Trump and point out to the judge there is no law preventing it. DOJ memorandum is not a law. It was never tested. It can be tested.

If Trump is under pending impeachment trial, you go to court to invalidate pardons he issues while subject to impeachment trial.

[bucolic_frolic]

10. Trump .. has .. been .. NEUTERED! ROFLMAO /nt

[tclambert]

21. If Trump pardons rioters, they cannot plead the fifth amendment at his impeachment trial.

With the implied immunity of a pardon, they MUST testify or face contempt of court charges.

That doesn't really matter, though. We already know what Trump said. We have video. And many of the rioters have proudly, PROUDLY posted what they did and why on social media, and in statements to the news media.

[Liberal In Red State]

26. Article II of the Constitution, Section 2 Clause 1 reads:

Section. 2.

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

[Rhiannon12866]

30. Thank you!

[Buckeye_Democrat]

28. Great video!!

Is it true? I'm certainly not a lawyer. (I'll just Google it!)

I half-expect to get arrested someday for skipping outside while chewing gum, or some other law hidden in a thick tome, since I'm even ignorant of various details in our Constitution. I'm exaggerating, but that type of work never appealed to me despite how it's obviously CRUCIAL.