Elon Musk Charmingly Defeating a Room Full Of Oil Giants

[Renew Deal]

[11 Bravo]

1. I'm not sure I understand the almost visceral dislike of Musk by many.

If it's solely because he's rich, that strikes me as foolish.

[MontanaMama]

3. I don't have any feelings for Musk personally

but his company doesn't pay federal taxes in the US and that pisses me off. That and his company doesn't contribute any matching funds to his employees 401K's and he's forced employees to take pay cuts if Tesla's stock prices fall. I have a small business and I contribute the maximum allowed to my employees 401K's. When business is slow, I would never in a million years dock my employees. That's not how to treat people.

[pnwmom]

9. He's a libertarian who pushes bitcoin, which would allow people to avoid the taxes

that we need as a country. And he moved himself and his company from CA to TX to avoid progressive taxes.

Other than that he's just great.

[Budi]

11. Thank you. Musk is a businessman 1st. (like the ever dreaded Bezos 🙄)

He's as far from Green as one can get.
He needs toxic mined minerals to sell his EV's & he establishes his businesses where he won't pay taxes or negotiates such deals with States & foreign nations.

Of course he pushes bitcoin, because THAT's how billionares remain billionares.
Billionares don't pay taxes.

And he actually doesn't give 2 shits about the environment, but he sure did capatalize on the Green New Deal!
What timing!

[Budi]

2. Fracking oil is so yesterday. Elon's now Fracking for Lithium!!

Charming isn't close to describing the exploitation possibilities of Elon Musk.
Clever. Slick. Laughing all the way to the bank. Environmental sell-out is more appropriate.

From Africa to Nevada, Elon Musk will profit at the expense of the planet.
He certainly IS a good salesman, that's for sure.
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https://www.democraticunderground.com/1127144973#post6

Processing of Lithium Ore

The lithium extraction process uses a lot of water—approximately 500,000 gallons per metric ton of lithium. To extract lithium, miners drill a hole in salt flats and pump salty, mineral-rich brine to the surface. After several months the water evaporates, leaving a mixture of manganese, potassium, borax and lithium salts which is then filtered and placed into another evaporation pool. After between 12 and 18 months of this process, the mixture is filtered sufficiently that lithium carbonate can be extracted.

South America’s Lithium Triangle, which covers parts of Argentina, Bolivia and Chile, holds more than half the world’s supply of the metal beneath its salt flats.
But it is also one of the driest places on earth. In Chile’s Salar de Atacama, mining activities consumed 65 percent of the region’s water, which is having a large impact on local farmers to the point that some communities have to get water elsewhere.
MORE
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/renewable/the-environmental-impact-of-lithium-batteries/amp/

https://www.hcn.org/issues/53.3/indigenous-affairs-mining-nevada-lithium-mine-kicks-off-a-new-era-of-western-extraction

If AZ is woried about lower water tables now, a pipeling from the MS River isn't going to save them, nor tthe other States who will feel the result as water tables drop even further.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en/article/k7avam/inside-the-lithium-wars-that-could-poison-the-nevada-deserts-water-supply
SNIP
“I was kind of excited about the mine for electric car batteries, but not when I heard it had the potential to drop our water tables,” said Ed Bartell, a cattle rancher with land connected to the mining site. In early February, he sued the Bureau of Land management, which is responsible for approving some of the mine’s permits.

“We’re extremely concerned about the mine—both about our private lands and the likelihood of significantly dropping the water table and affecting vegetation,”Bartell continued. “We depend on the water out there for our livelihood.”

If allowed to proceed, the Thacker Pass Lithium Project would use a “brining” method that can take 500,000 gallons of water to extract one metric ton of lithium. The water is pumped underground to make lithium clay and other minerals surface, which are then put through a leaching process that separates the raw lithium.

🤔 (A lot like FRACKING, only for Lithium rather than Oil! )

Another instance of brine-mining in Nevada harmed fish populations 150 miles downstream from the operation.

“What is at stake here is the soul of the entire environmental movement.”
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Back in 2016, Musk planned a Lithium Battery Plant near this Lithium mine in Africa with future sights on Nevada

https://www.google.com/amp/s/electrek.co/2016/01/11/tesla-talks-build-gigafactory-south-africa/amp/

2016~
When Tesla CEO Elon Musk first announced the Gigafactory project, he said that even though the planned capacity of the factory is equal to the entire global production of lithium-ion batteries in 2013, the world would sill need around 200 more giant factories of similar size to support the auto industry’s transition from fossil fuels to electric.

Tesla named the factory in Nevada: “Gigafactory 1”, implying that the company plans to eventually introduce “Gigafactory 2” and so on.
Late last year, German Vice-Chancellor and Economy Minister Sigmar Gabriel confirmed being in contact with Elon Musk over the possibility of building a battery factory in the country. Now we learn that Tesla is also reportedly in talks to build another Gigafactory in South Africa.
More..

Ignoring the global, longterm damage in favor of profit, & a salespitch for clean & green is no different than what occurred with 'big oil'.
Pick your poison.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/renewable/the-environmental-impact-of-lithium-batteries/amp/
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A war is brewing over lithium mining at the edge of Death Valley
May 17, 2019
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/a-war-is-brewing-over-lithium-mining-at-the-edge-of-death-valley/?amp=1

PANAMINT SPRINGS, Calif. — A small Cessna soared high above the Mojave Desert recently, its engine growling in the choppy morning air. As the aircraft skirted the mountains on the edge of Death Valley National Park




There are plenty of data & articles available as warnings of lithium/cobalt mining.
There were warnings as Big Oil & fracking dominated as well.

In the end, who exactly is coming out on top with lithium?
Who suffers the most damage & who's left to clean it up for the next generation?

Rinse & repeat.... Pick your Poison

[mac2766]

4. Battery technology is improving

by leaps and bounds. Who knows where it will be 10 years from now. There have been many improvements in the technology in the recent past.

Electric vehicles are here. Now. They're not going away. For a very VERY long time. The one thing that is for certain is that the EV is the future.

Instead of finding ways to simply critique, find a way to improve on the technology. There certainly are problems with lithium mining. Instead of being focused on the problem, why wouldn't you want to focus on finding a better way? This is a fundamental problem with humans today. We (collectively) are so focused on the negative that we (collectively) can't see beyond it.

Solutions are what we need. Not the propagation of negative facts. Certainly, point out the issues, but propose a solution along with it. Continuing to burn fossil fuels is not the solution. The EV IS the solution. Finding a better way to produce the batteries is the future.

And for goodness sake, turn the lights off at night. Turn the lights off in Las Vegas, New York, LA, Atlanta, etc... etc... etc... when there is no need to use them. That is step one. Quit wasting energy unnecessarily.

[Budi]

5. Excuse me? Imagine the environmental damage in those 10 years.

How bout NOT destroy the Environment at all, & put the billions it'll take to develop & mine for toxic lithium batteries into development of a better cleaner product FIRST.

Suddenly not everyon's as Green as they claim to be.

As with gasoline engines & oil extraction, the eventual environmental devastation of EV & lithiuum/cobalt mining, to make the cars run will result in equally destructive & permanent man-made problems, left for another generation to clean up.

Well that's great advice! ...let's just NOT mention the warning signs blaring because in 10 years maybe they'll have something to replace the rush to profit from dirty toxic lithiium.

Just think. If only there had been more who warned about Big Oil....

[mac2766]

6. What is the solution?

I don't want to hear what the problem is. You've made that point, and we know what the problem is. What is the solution? If EVs aren't the solution, what is the solution? Internal combustion engines? Just what is the solution?

The mining of lithium may be as bad as fracking (nowhere near, but let's play)... What is the solution? Do we simply keep pumping crude oil out of the ground and keep burning fossil fuels? Let's do that and simply complain about lithium and EVs. Is that the answer? The oil industry really loves this type of discussion. The longer we propagate the myth that EVs are as bad, or worse (idiotically) than ICE vehicles, the longer they can continue to pump dirty crude out of the ground.

[Budi]

10. Ok. Great. I'm just wondering how the next Green Generation is going to clean up ...

...the environmental catastrophy of the 2021 Lithium Generation, who blamed the last environmental catastrophy on the Big Oil generation before them.

Anyone know what Lithium's stock price increase is?
Who's investing & who's set up for big profits?

Maybe Elon Musk could halt Tesla EV Batteries because in the end he's clearly concerned enough about environmental damage from big oil, that he surely wouldn't want to be a party to the environmental destruction to our water, wildlife, ecosystems & health where Lithium is mined.

Musk, & every Big Wall Street Corporation that produces & profits from a product using lithium/cobalt/nickel.

Along with Lithium Americas, (Canadian Stock Exchange), we see A few big players buying in.

*Ganfeng Lithium: A leading Chinese lithium mining company that has evolved into refining and processing lithium, battery manufacturing, and recycling.
(Lithium Americas joined Ganfeng in developing the Cauchari-Olaroz lithium project in Jujuy, Argentina in 2017)

*Panasonic: A top-3 global EV battery manufacturer from Japan.

*Contemporary Amperex Technology Limited (CATL): A top-3 EV battery manufacturer from China.
*******



Thacker Pass Nevada Lithium Project

Lithium Americas
Thacker Pass is 100% -owned by Lithium Americas.Feb 2, 2021




An open pit mine in Kolwezi, Democratic Republic of Congo, where cobalt and copper is extracted

Cobalt - a key component in the lithium-ion batteries that power electronic devices and electric cars.

[mac2766]

7. .

[Me.]

12. THIS...

A fabulous post!

[Budi]

13. There's so much information that should be discussed. And it's not.

I'm not joining the rush to EV Clean Green metal mining.

They billions invested at this point should have been spent to find a truly better source of battery that won't destroy the water table or the ecosystems.

[Me.]

14. "a truly better source of battery that won't destroy the water table or the ecosystems"

Exactly. People are so careless about the ecosystem. Right now Idaho is preparing to kill all but 150 of the wolves in that state. Possible unforseen consequences are seldom considered.