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Related: About this forumWave of Coups Disrupts Africa as U.S.-Trained Soldiers Play Key Role in Overthrowing Governments
Jilly_in_VA
(14,092 posts)It's been happening since forever. Read history. It was Central and South America first. (Where do you think the erm "banana republic" came from? Then the Middle East. I distinctly remember the overthrow of the democratically elected president Mohammed Mossadegh in Iran and the installation of Shah Reza Pahlevi in 1953. And getting involved in Southeast Asia was more of the same. And how about the overthrow of another democratically elected president, Salvador Allende in Chile, in favor of a right-wing dictator, Pinochet? The CIA was right in the middle of that too. Shall I continue?
I'd be willing to bet Erik, Prince of Darkness, and whatever he calls Blackwater now are smack dab in the middle of all this crap.
Uncle Joe
(64,563 posts)in Africa.
I also believe both professors make good points about how disjointed, war making hardening of the security apparatus of governments while other critical aspects are left to entropy are major dysfunctional hurdles for any democracy's long term success....including our own.
Jilly_in_VA
(14,092 posts)that Erik, Prince of Darkness, is behind a lot of this and not our government. He is likely in cahoots with the Russians and other fascists, being a tool of the Slobfather.
Uncle Joe
(64,563 posts)whatever they want to call themselves and their ilk are involved as well.
zanana1
(6,467 posts)Uncle Joe
(64,563 posts)The most visible result of that cultural/control outlook was January 6th which wasn't a one time deal and we're done, it's still ongoing.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016313288
cab67
(3,666 posts)but the situation in many African countries is complex, and there are lots of factors to be considered beyond foreign intervention.
Many of these "countries" are lines on a map defined by European colonial powers with no regard to the ethnic groups being lumped or split within them. These groups often don't like each other and take exception when someone not from their group is in charge.
(I recently submitted a manuscript for publication that names new species of crocodile from an East African country. For its name, I decided to adapt a word in several related languages where they were found. Thankfully, one of my coauthors knows enough of these languages to point out that the adaptation I'd devised made the word look like it referred to an unrelated ethnic group whom the speakers of these languages consider a bitter enemy. So we found an adaptation that will, we seriously hope, offend no one.)
Ethiopia's the exception that proves the rule. Except for a brief period from 1935 through 1944, when it was under Italian and then British occupation, it was never a colony. But it's very diverse ethnically, which is why its head of state was an emperor; Ethiopia was an empire in the full sense of the word, encompassing multiple distinct nations under one ruler. There was an attempted coup there during my last visit in 2019, but (unlike the current civil war there) it was less an effort to overthrow the government in Addis than an effort by a province to exert a lot more autonomy. And even the present violence there is related to ethnic strife.
Again, I'm not pretending the US (as well as other Western countries, primarily the UK and France) aren't guilty of much of the disorder this whole continent has experienced. The UK and France, along with Portugal, struggled to reassert dominion over what had formerly been their colonies. That didn't end well for the Europeans, but the collapse of empire brought the Cold War, and Africa became a great big armed chessboard. The people of Africa suffered horribly as a result. The effects of all of this linger.
In that sense, I respectfully disagree with something said (or implied) by one of the panelists in video - that the US is a new colonial power because of the war on terrorism. We've been a de facto colonial power there since the 1960's.
In my opinion, beyond outrage for the wrongs being done in our name, we really should be concerned about the one excuse given by all of these military juntas - corruption. It's pervasive in many African countries, whether the government is civilian or military. That military juntas in Africa use "getting rid of the corrupt civilian government" as a pretext shouldn't surprise anyone, as the civilian governments they replace often really are very corrupt. This is why so many in these countries are willing to let the miitary take over - they see it as a way to eliminate corruption. That the military junta itself becomes corrupt (or started out that way) only becomes a concern later.
Sound familiar? I've seen a lot of people who wear red hats and spout conspiracy babble argue that their false messiah should be in charge because of corruption in the federal government. We've already seen they're willing to look the other way when a violent overthrow of the government is attempted. Africa is thus a wake-up call for us.
I've done a lot of my work in Africa - mostly the Horn and East Africa, but elsewhere as well. I love it. I love the people, the landscape, the wildlife, and the history. It's where our species comes from. It really hurts to see the continent descend into this.
Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)
Magoo48 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Magoo48
(6,710 posts)We have a long history of meddling in others politics. We have often backed right wing strong mens overthrows of democratically elected leftist leaders in support of economic links between the morbidly rich of both nations.
Now, Billionaires are funneling huges sums of money into fascist candidates here in order to end whats left of our democracy.
We best mind our own business while we still can.
Uncle Joe
(64,563 posts)I believe one can only ride the tiger for so long, as a nation we need to find a tiger whisperer and get the f*%k off.
