Why the increase in gun violence? Uh, it's the guns . . .

[AndyS]

Gunners say we have enough laws already, just enforce them yet:

No FBI crime data for more than a year because fewer than 60% of law enforcement agencies reported in.
The BATF&E (ATF, the agency that enforces gun laws) hasn't had a director since 2015.
Only 78% of gun makers and importers filed required inventory reports to the ATF.
Gun sellers (Federal firearms licensees) with multiple violations, serious violations, of their license are not punished and continue to sell unabated.

But still, IT'S THE GUNS, STUPID.

[krispos42]

1. *cough*

[AndyS]

2. Cover your mouth when you cough.

Convenient you stop at 2019. 2020 and 2021 both saw massive increases in deaths by gun. Up to 30%! Preliminary numbers for 2022 is another 20% increase over those increases.

Why is it that gunners always go back to '70s to make gun deaths look not so bad? It's like, see, it's not as bad as it once was so it's all good. I call bullshit. Preventable deaths are preventable deaths regardless of the numbers. Besides by the end of 2022 we just might match the highest deaths per 100,000 ever.

[krispos42]

4. *sigh*

Because BATFE sales and import data is not published for a couple of years after it's collected. Because it's reported both by caliber and by manufacturer, it has something to do with manufacturers' being able to keep their sales secret for a while from the competition.

So... I can't go past about 2019 in sales figures.

But I noticed I posted an older graph for gun sales... it stops at 2015.

Here's the most recent one.



Wow! Look at that spike that occurred when people thought a Democrat was going to win in 2016! Almost like the gun-control movement increases gun sales, but of course that's not possible because if that was true, then there'd be a big spike around when.. Obama... took...

Oh, my.

Anyway, how come your side never has per-capita figures?

It's a rhetorical question; we both know why, you sly dog you.

[AndyS]

5. Oh you poor thing. You've been lied to and fooled for so long you

wouldn't know truth if it bit you in the ass.



So the rate of gun death by murder (not including accidental and other homicide rates) in 2020 was only one per 100,000 less than the benchmark gunners like to cite to make now not look not so bad (like preventable deaths are ever not bad).

Given that there was a 20% or more increase in murders in '21 and a likely similar increase in '22 you think this somehow makes your position look more tenable?

You still believe that having a gun makes you safer, in that mythical 'good guy with a gun' and that somehow you will be the hero who saves the day.

All I can say is bless your heart . . .

[krispos42]

7. So, are non-gun homicides up as well?

Non-gun suicides? Gee, it's almost like there are external factors besides gun sales that are affecting society.

Regardless, you proved my point with your graph up there:

Gun sales 2009-2016 were much higher than normal thanks to your side's albatross of gun-control being attached to the Democratic Party, and yet there was no corresponding increase in crime, murder, or suicide.

You're adding on two years when those two years are during social upheaval and stress.

And you still can't admit that increases in gun sales are a direct result of you efforts to ban guns and demonize gun ownership.

It's backfiring, it's been backfiring for decades, and you claim I'm the one being lied to.

I made those graphs myself. I researched and plugged in data from the Census Bureau, the BATFE, the FBI, and the BJS to make them in a spreadsheet. It's how I know the mean time between rifle murders in 2019 was 1443.9560 minutes, while the lowest time since 1985 was the year 1989 (658.6466 minutes) and the highest time was 2013 (2433.3333 minutes)

Democrats have largely lost rural America and I'll bet a good part of it is your side's obsession with banning "assault weapons". And because we lost rural America, we're about to have abortion rights overturned. Congrats. I bet far more woman die from back-alley abortions, and far more unwanted newborns are smothered or drowned, than people are killed with rifles.

But hey... you got to demonize pistol grips on rifles by claiming they cause school shootings, so bully for you. Damn your quixotic tilting at assault windmills. And it's only going to get worse!

Roe is going to be overturned this week, almost certainly, because the GQP assholes stole two SCOTUS seats. What's going to happen 20 years down the line? A surge in teenagers raised in shitty, crime-ridden areas that are going to take their first steps into become career violent criminals. The crime rate will surge as a direct result of Roe being overturned... and that's on your side, not mine.

[AndyS]

8. I don't normally do cut 'n paste but . . .

So, are non-gun homicides up as well? Non-gun suicides?
No.

Regardless, you proved my point with your graph up there:
There were two notable spikes in gun sales in your chart. One back in the '90s and the current one. Both are reflected in my chart as a spike in murders. If someone's point has been made I doubt it is yours.

You're adding on two years when those two years are during social upheaval and stress.
So what happened back in the '90s? Someone introduce a new video game?

I made those graphs myself. I researched and plugged in data from the Census Bureau, the BATFE, the FBI, and the BJS to make them in a spreadsheet. It's how I know the mean time between rifle murders in 2019 was 1443.9560 minutes, while the lowest time since 1985 was the year 1989 (658.6466 minutes) and the highest time was 2013 (2433.3333 minutes)
1443 minutes between rifle murders huh. 1443 divided by 60 minutes in an hour and that's one rifle death every 24 hours. One a day is acceptable to you? As for 'do your own research' unless you have an advanced degree in Statistics and Analysis I'll go with PEW. I rather like unbiased sources that have no agenda, besides do your own research? Really? Isn't that the conspiracy chant? If you do have the requisite background I apologize.

What I take from all your commentary is that we need more guns to solve the gun violence problem. Or perhaps fewer doors? Well, we're trying that now and people are dying at near record (soon to be record) rates.

[krispos42]

9. Congrats, you know how many minutes are in an hour.

Acceptable? No. Inevitable? Yes. Just like many other things that you cannot reach "zero" of.

In any case, the mean time between handgun murders in 2019 was 82.5377 minutes. Mean time between non-firearm murders in 2019 was 143.2543 minutes. Since these are many times higher than rifle homicides I'm hoping you can see that banning "assault weapon" rifles isn't really going to do anything besides drive up Republican voter turnout.

Oh! And I made a little present for you, since you seem to have trouble reading graphs.

Here's the homicide graph I posed previously, but just for your I put gun sales on it as well. Obviously and as discussed upthread, the gun sales data ends as 2019. Gun sales data is "per 100 people", so it would scale with the homicide rate of per 100,000. Otherwise it's just a maroon line with some rainbow squiggles at the bottom.

And, dammit, I just realized the legend got cut off. Well, it's the maroon line with dash-dot-dot pattern. Gun sales per 100 people.



You're welcome!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. A big fat K&R!

[magicguido]

6. you mean it's not the "feral pigs"?

Last edited Mon Jun 20, 2022, 05:55 PM - Edit history (1)