Russia's Lavrov says US & NATO are participants in Ukraine war - Al Jazeera

[TexasTowelie]

In televised comments, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov says Washington and NATO are participating in the Ukraine war.
Ukraine fires the deputy chief engineer of its Russian-occupied Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant, accusing him of collaborating with Moscow’s forces.

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1. He's right. It's a surrogate war. It's kinda what happens when you brutally...

invade neighboring countries...unprovoked.

[Warpy]

2. That might be the case if NATO were actually fighting it

but now it's a war of invasion and attempted annexation on Russia's part and an anticolonial war on Ukraines part, something that will likely be remembered as their major war of independence. Fighters are probably 99.9% Ukrainian, with help from retired military from other regions (including Chechnya!) but no current foreign military forces. They are using equipment donated by foreign powers which know all too well how easily European wars spin out of control into world wars and that expansionist nations need to be stopped, no matter who they are.

In no way is Russia fighting NATO or any of its member countries. They are, however, seeing how well their hardware and troops stack up against mostly old NATO hardware and western trained Ukrainians and the picture is not pretty.

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3. No one said Russia is fighting against NATO troops on the ground. NATO countries...

are surrogates in the sense that we are continually supplying arms and supplies which enable Ukraine to continue fighting against the Russian invaders.

Agreed?

[Warpy]

4. In no way is Russia fighting NATO

any more than Ukraine is fighting Iran or China because those countries are sending things to Russia or that we were fighting Hitler in 1939-Nov 1941 because we were supplying arms to Britain under lend-lease, even though we had our people in Britain training them. That's not even the case now, as Ukrainians are being trained in adjacent NATO countries as well as in the UK.

This is in no way a war between NATO and Russia, surrogate or otherwise. It's no "special military operation," either, it's a goddamned full scale war started by Russia against a country they want to annex.

Russia just needs to thank its lucky stars that lend-lease hasn't extended to the new systems. Yet.

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5. What is hard to understand about this? No one is saying NATO troops are fighting Russia in Ukraine.

Last edited Fri Dec 2, 2022, 02:37 AM - Edit history (1)

Again, its a surrogacy in the sense that NATO is supplying war materiel in robust amounts that enables Ukraine to keep fighting to repel the Russian invaders.