Why being Latino and also a neo-Nazi are not mutually exclusive - Rachel Maddow - MSNBC

[Rhiannon12866]

Kathleen Belew, an expert in the white power movement in the United States, talks with Rachel Maddow about why being Latino and having neo-Nazi sympathies are not as incongruous as it may seem, and how the concept of "whiteness" differs across countries and cultures. - Aired on 05/08/2023.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

1. Enrique Tarrio & Ali Alexander

Link to tweet

[Rhiannon12866]

2. Thank you, spot on! Not that it makes any sense that anyone could embrace prejudice and nazism

Did we learn nothing from the Civil Rights movement and the horror of the Holocaust??

[iluvtennis]

6. Exactly- looks like they've learned nothing from history. n/t

[herding cats]

3. This speaks to what I've mentioned here before.

I, personally, know Latin Americans of Mexican heritage who consider themselves of European/Spaniard decent and as such are white in their identification. The ones I know and am speaking of here are authoritarian and xenophobic. The ones I know are hard RW and are in places of power in our society, mostly some area of law enforcement. Culturally, that is a goal to show you've done well. Being in some facet of law enforcement is considered a gold standard, and I've seen this go as high as Homeland Security. I don't doubt it's in every branch of law enforcement, even higher than that which I'm aware.

This is a real thing and as I've said before we need to be aware of this flavor of xenophobia. It's very real and as much a threat as any other.

I understand being skeptical. Unless you're living (in the culture) where you have a finger on the pulse of these things, you might differ to older concepts and mindsets of demographics. But, modern historical evidence seem to be showing this as being a real threat.

I edited, trimmed and excluded much information from this post which cannot be said in a public forum. I hope it still coveys the gist of the intent and makes sense.

[Rhiannon12866]

4. Thank you for sharing, this is something I'd never thought of before

And my relatives "came over on the last boat" as my mother used to say, Polish grandparents on my mother's side and Irish on my paternal great grandparents. My paternal grandmother was the exception, Dutch ancestry from the mid 1600s, and she was not only the one I was closest to, but the least judgmental person I can think of.

But I certainly believe you and we're seeing serious evidence of this now. We know that most ethnic groups have gone through a period of being the most unwelcome, but I don't recall being aware of such a retaliatory reaction from any other group. Most groups just want to "fit in." But then, as you said, I'm not a part of that culture. Thank you s much for sharing.

[PlutosHeart]

5. Someone I worked with 2 decades ago

"educated me" on how he was more American than my enrolled Indigenous fiancee. This fellow worker at the major non-profit I worked at came from a Latin American/Mexican-based family that owned 3 houses in 3 different countries. One for each of their kids. He "educated me" on how his racial history made his ancestors' history older and longer than those of the rights of my indigenous husband.

He was serious. And he was highly educated. And he stole my promotion at my job. This did not make me bitter but it taught me how some view they have more rights than others. Like my husband and I.

[Rhiannon12866]

7. It's truly frightening, not only the shootings, but that these Americans feel that they're "entitled"

And that they're so much "better" that they can even take the lives of others. That's not what America is about, but it's obviously getting worse. They may have been here all the time, but they're becoming more active and violent. And the fact that TFG is still out there and encouraging them is the most frightening of all. As Rachel called it, "white supremacist mass murder."

[PlutosHeart]

14. It is.

In the early 90's when I started to encounter this thinking on rare occasion I think my jaw dropped. It had never occurred to me the possibility of a perspective that would attack Indigious here.

[Rhiannon12866]

15. Same here, I really don't get it. Will we ever be past thinking of anyone as "the other?"

I grew up in a fairly diverse community, my Sunday School teacher was a very nice Black lady and was friends with my mother, my best friend's mother came from Japan. Since no one ever said anything, my parents, my grandmother or my teachers, and we learned about the Civil Rights movement in history class, so it still comes as a shock to me. And, even more so, since it seems to be getting worse.

[DFW]

8. I was sure I could count on Rachel to correct her guest confusing Chile with Argentina

For the rest, right wing fanaticism has proved very adaptable. Fascists from Spain, nostalgic for the Franco era, would be considered racially inferior by their Swedish counterparts, who otherwise believe basically the same thing.

I notice that the extremist right in the USA likes to say, „I speak American.“ Well, no, they don‘t. Unless they speak Navajo or Tlingit or Lakota or Nahuatl, etc., that is. Usually, they will speak English or Spanish. Neither England nor Spain can be found in America. Speakers of English and Spanish speak „European,“ not „American.“

[Rhiannon12866]

9. That's an excellent point.

It only depended on when certain European populations arrived that we speak the languages that we do. And having traveled overseas, it's not unusual for those in other countries to speak more than one language. You certainly do! Back in the day when I was in the USSR, I sat next to a girl from Moscow during a performance at the Kirov Theatre. We tried to chat during the intermission, she not only spoke Russian, but was also fluent in French and Italian. She apologized that she never "finished" her English! I'm in the Northeast, so took French in school - so I struggled with that, but it's been a few years!

And Americans visiting other countries just expect everyone to speak English - and chances are that a majority of them do. *sigh*

[DFW]

10. Au, but never assume a majority really speak good English except for Belgium, NL and Scandinavia.

In NL and Scandinavia, they start teaching children English somewhere between the first and third grades. Just as important: when they show American or British TV shows or films, they are ALWAYS in the original with subtitles. In France, Italy, or Germany, they are always dubbed into the local language. This is why the poorest panhandler on the streets of Amsterdam or Stockholm will often speak better English than half the mayors of small towns in Arkansas. The governments of some small countries understand that their populations will need a major language as a second language in order to survive in the outside world. English speakers won't always NEED this, but it helps to fit in. It is appalling, especially outside of the big cities, how poor average Germans, French, Spaniards and Italians know English. I speak all that, so it's not a problem for me, but it drives my wife and family nuts (exception--my younger daughter spent a semester at the Sorbonne in Paris, so her French is still passable).

Hey, look, knowing German even got me a wife! Her English has improved over the years, but we have always spoken German to each other since day one. We ALWAYS spoke our own languages to our children, as we knew they would be better off being comfortable in both countries and cultures. Our (almost-) five year old granddaughter in Germany started an English-language Kindergarten a year ago, and while not perfect by any means, she now speaks English to me without any prompting. She is well on her way to being a citizen of the world like her parents. My daughter's S.O. is German, but went to college in the USA, and his English is fluent as well.

[brewens]

11. Many Latinos are republicans. That's all that needs to be said. n/t

[Bernardo de La Paz]

12. RW Authoritarian Followers always think they are protected, just because. . . . nt

[infullview]

13. Off topic, Re: Rachel Maddow

Am I the only one that thinks the Rachel Maddow show has lost its edge? It seems to me that she had much more investigative material when she was on 5 days a week. You could always count on learning something new that other network news shows had overlooked and she would highlight why they may be important. No she merely retreads news that has already been talked to death.