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Rhiannon12866

(256,954 posts)
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 05:29 PM Jun 2023

Jack Smith Files FIRST MAJOR MOTION in Trump Criminal Case - Meidas Touch



Michael Popok of Legal AF reports on new breaking developments with the Special Prosecutor’s office filing its motion for protective order with Judge Cannon in the Trump Mar a Lago criminal case against Trump, requiring that trump not review any of the material unless supervised by his counsel, and that he not disseminate any of the government’s documents or information to any one else by social media or otherwise or face severe consequences. - 06/16/2023.


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Jack Smith Files FIRST MAJOR MOTION in Trump Criminal Case - Meidas Touch (Original Post) Rhiannon12866 Jun 2023 OP
So they are finally starting to "gag" the Orange Menace? GreenWave Jun 2023 #1
Only if judge Cannon grants the motion.nt. drray23 Jun 2023 #2
Judge Cannon referred this to Judge Reinhard. euphorb Jun 2023 #5
thats great news! drray23 Jun 2023 #7
x 2. n/t iluvtennis Jun 2023 #13
Hopefully she's now cognizant that she might be in over her head. forgotmylogin Jun 2023 #17
The magistrate apparently already granted the motion, unless I misheard or misunderstood the clip msfiddlestix Jun 2023 #39
Wow! sheshe2 Jun 2023 #3
Judge Cannon referred the motion to Judge Reinhard euphorb Jun 2023 #4
trump won't Linda Ed Jun 2023 #6
Agreed. ShazzieB Jun 2023 #8
And I agree with that. I don't think he has much control about what spews from his mouth Rhiannon12866 Jun 2023 #11
When what you truly love most in the world is the sound of your own voice littlemissmartypants Jun 2023 #21
And a narcissist as clinical psychologist Mary Trump has said Rhiannon12866 Jun 2023 #26
Yes, ma'am! I know antisocial personality disorder is the diagnosis for the DSM-5-TR.. littlemissmartypants Jun 2023 #28
Thanks so much! I remember DSM from college, I was a psych major Rhiannon12866 Jun 2023 #29
Wow! That's so cool! LY, Rhi! ❤️ littlemissmartypants Jun 2023 #30
That terrific professor is listed on my college site as one of the "lost" Rhiannon12866 Jun 2023 #32
Bob Newhart's show is hilarious. And it's really special to have a prof, in any field, littlemissmartypants Jun 2023 #33
The thing was, I was his volunteer for his demonstration and it turned out to be a joke Rhiannon12866 Jun 2023 #34
"Donkey, you have the right to remain silent. What you lack is the capacity." -- Shrek alterfurz Jun 2023 #36
This message was self-deleted by its author ShazzieB Jun 2023 #9
How long before Trump spills the beans? bucolic_frolic Jun 2023 #10
Looks more like they're putting the squeeze on Nauta Warpy Jun 2023 #12
I give trump a week before he blabs something Javaman Jun 2023 #14
Good luck w/Chronic Diarrhea of the Cha Jun 2023 #15
That's what we've heard, his constant reckless sounding off could result in more charged being filed Rhiannon12866 Jun 2023 #16
Actually this might be a shrewd strategy... forgotmylogin Jun 2023 #18
I think you may be right, and we know that TFG refuses to listen and will just charge ahead! Rhiannon12866 Jun 2023 #19
Clothesline is good. But I'd prefer a trip wire with or without explosives. littlemissmartypants Jun 2023 #22
Face severe consequences? Trump? Kablooie Jun 2023 #20
Then Cannon says.... Nah; not necessary MagaSmash Jun 2023 #23
From upthread, Cannon already referred this motion to the judge Eyeball_Kid Jun 2023 #27
This musclecar6 Jun 2023 #24
K n R ! Thanks for posting! JoeOtterbein Jun 2023 #25
Thanks, Joe! Rhiannon12866 Jun 2023 #31
Wouldn't the consequences of violating a judge's order be confinement? lees1975 Jun 2023 #35
Any violation of the order will be met with "severe consequences". msfiddlestix Jun 2023 #41
Excellent news Wild blueberry Jun 2023 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author Starfury Jun 2023 #38
Trump won't be bothered to look at anything he has to go see, give up his phone or follow any SKIF Karadeniz Jun 2023 #40
But, but Hillary e-mail. republianmushroom Jun 2023 #42
correcting misunderstandings in some of the posts in this thread - this is SOP onenote Jun 2023 #43

euphorb

(294 posts)
5. Judge Cannon referred this to Judge Reinhard.
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 05:46 PM
Jun 2023

According to the article about this in The Hill, Judge Cannon referred the motion to Magistrate Judge Bruce Reinhard (the one who approved the search warrant last August) for approval.

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4054194-justice-files-for-protective-order-to-prevent-trump-from-releasing-classified-materials/

forgotmylogin

(7,961 posts)
17. Hopefully she's now cognizant that she might be in over her head.
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 07:13 PM
Jun 2023

And smart enough not to want to make any more embarrassing mistakes.

msfiddlestix

(8,179 posts)
39. The magistrate apparently already granted the motion, unless I misheard or misunderstood the clip
Sat Jun 17, 2023, 12:42 PM
Jun 2023

euphorb

(294 posts)
4. Judge Cannon referred the motion to Judge Reinhard
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 05:45 PM
Jun 2023

According to the article about this in The Hill, Judge Cannon referred the motion to Magistrate Judge Bruce Reinhard (the one who approved the search warrant last August) for approval.

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4054194-justice-files-for-protective-order-to-prevent-trump-from-releasing-classified-materials/

Linda Ed

(519 posts)
6. trump won't
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 05:52 PM
Jun 2023

keep his mouth shut...that is my bet ...that scares me the most cause he gets this information and he will go stir crazy! Going out to his rallies is going to be a big test if he even speaks of these documents ,,,,

ShazzieB

(22,721 posts)
8. Agreed.
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 06:09 PM
Jun 2023

I'm not sure he's capable of keeping his mouth shut. At least not unless he really wanted to, which I'm sure that jerk/clown/miscreant doesn’t. I hope the penalties rain down on him HARD the first time he talks about something he shouldn't.

Rhiannon12866

(256,954 posts)
11. And I agree with that. I don't think he has much control about what spews from his mouth
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 06:17 PM
Jun 2023

Lies, complaints, misquotes, his imagination. As long as someone's listening - paying attention to HIM - that's all he cares about.

littlemissmartypants

(34,028 posts)
21. When what you truly love most in the world is the sound of your own voice
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 07:42 PM
Jun 2023

And you're a PSYCHOPATH you inherently believe that there's no need to listen to anything else. PSYCHOPATHS don't believe that they need to follow ANY rules, LAWS or otherwise.

Attorney Smith has his thumb on the pulse of this two bit criminal that believes deep in his putrid heart he's untouchable. I have all ideas Attorney Smith is going for the jugular.

No Quarter for treasonous fools!!



❤️

Rhiannon12866

(256,954 posts)
26. And a narcissist as clinical psychologist Mary Trump has said
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 07:58 PM
Jun 2023

Other people's wishes and legal constraints don't exist for him. It's all about what he wants and needs - at any time.

littlemissmartypants

(34,028 posts)
28. Yes, ma'am! I know antisocial personality disorder is the diagnosis for the DSM-5-TR..
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 09:31 PM
Jun 2023

But psychopath has a certain gravitas that seems to fit the moment.
~~~☆☆~~~

Antisocial Personality Disorder DSM-5 301.7 (F60.2)
DSM-5 Category: Personality Disorders

Introduction

APD (Antisocial Personality Disorder) is a DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fifth edition), diagnosis assigned to individuals who habitually and pervasively disregard or violate the rights and considerations of others without remorse. People with Antisocial Personality Disorder may be habitual criminals, or engage in behavior which would be grounds for criminal arrest and prosecution, or they may engage in behaviors which skirt the edges of the law, or manipulate and hurt others in non-criminal ways which are widely regarded as unethical, immoral, irresponsible, or in violation of social norms and expectations. Those with APD often possess an impaired moral conscience and make decisions driven purely by their own desires without considering the needs or negative effects of their actions on others. Impulsive and criminal behavior is common. The terms psychopathy or sociopathy are also used, in some contexts synonymously, in others, sociopath is differentiated from a psychopath, in that a sociopathy is rooted in environmental causes, while psychopathy is genetically based.

The term antisocial may be confusing to the lay public, as the more common definition outside of clinical usage is an individual who is a loner or socially isolated. The literal meaning of the word antisocial can be more descriptive to both the lay public and professionals. To be anti-social is to be against society: against rules, norms, laws and acceptable behavior. Individuals with Antisocial Personality Disorder tend to be charismatic, attractive, and very good at obtaining sympathy from others; for example, describing themselves as the victim of injustice. Some studies suggest that the average intelligence of antisocials is higher than the norm. Antisocials possess a superficial charm, they can be thoughtful and cunning, and have an intuitive ability to rapidly observe and analyze others, determine their needs and preferences, and present it in a manner to facilitate manipulation and exploitation. They are able to harm and use other people in this manner, without remorse, guilt, shame or regret. It is widely stated that antisocials are without empathy, however this can be disputed, as sadistic antisocials will use empathy to experience their victim's suffering, and derive a fuller pleasure from it (Turvey, 1995). This is depicted in the classic work A Cask of Amontillado by Poe, as the main character entombs another man alive “...then I heard the furious vibrations of the chain. The noise lasted for several minutes, during which, that I might hearken to it with the more satisfaction, I ceased my labours and sat down upon the bones.” (Poe, 1846 ). Some research also suggests that sociopaths and psychopaths do have degrees of empathy, but with an innate ability to switch it off at will. (Meffer, Gazzola, den Boer, Bartells, 2013). This connection to empathy may give hope to future successful treatment as it suggests individuals with APD may be trained.

Symptoms & Criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder
According to the DSM-5, there are four diagnostic criterion, of which Criterion A has seven sub-features.

A. Disregard for and violation of others rights since age 15, as indicated by one of the seven sub features:

Failure to obey laws and norms by engaging in behavior which results in criminal arrest, or would warrant criminal arrest
Lying, deception, and manipulation, for profit or self-amusement,
Impulsive behavior
Irritability and aggression, manifested as frequently assaults others, or engages in fighting
Blatantly disregards safety of self and others,
A pattern of irresponsibility and
Lack of remorse for actions (American Psychiatric Association, 2013)
The other diagnostic Criterion are:

B. The person is at least age 18,

C. Conduct disorder was present by history before age 15

D. and the antisocial behavior does not occur in the context of schizophrenia or bipolar disorder (American Psychiatric Association, 2013)


Onset
The DSM-5 notes that Antisocial Personality Disorder cannot be diagnosed before age 18, so while an adolescent may display antisocial features, prior to age 18, if diagnostic criteria are met, the appropriate diagnosis would be Conduct Disorder (American Psychiatric Association, 2013).

Prevalence
According to the DSM-5, the annual prevalence of Antisocial Personality Disorder is .02% to 3.3.% when the criteria from prior DSM editions are applied (American Psychiatric Association, 2013).

Risk Factors
The DSM-5 indicates that risk factors for Antisocial Personality Disorder are having a first degree biological relative with APD, and being a male, (American Psychiatric Association, 2013). If Antisocial Personality Disorder is primarily genetic or a product of social learning and other environmental factors has been widely debated by behavioral scientists. There are indicators that Antisocial Personality Disorder is a result of a genetic predisposition in that the individual is born without conscience. There is evidence for neuroanatomical differences in antisocials. A rs-fMRI (resting state functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging) study of n=480 adjudicated antisocial offenders showed “uncoupled connections”in areas of the frontal and parietal lobes which are associated with attention, self regulation, the ability to control oneself, and resolve conflicts . It was noted that physiological and anatomical deficits observed in the frontal /parietal areas, as well as the cerebellum, may account for the chronic low arousal, high impulsivity, lack of conscience, callousness, and decision-making problems commonly seen in individuals with APD (Tang, Jiang, Liao, Wang, & Luo, 2013). There is also evidence that environmental factors, such as internalizing messages from antisocial peers or parents are at work in Antisocial Personality Disorder. One possible developmental pathway if there are not appropriate treatment interventions is ODD, or RAD (Reactive Attachment Disorder) , and CD leading to APD.

Comorbidity
The DSM-5 indicates that Antisocial Personality Disorder is comorbid with substance abuse disorder, and other personality disorders (American Psychiatric Association, 2013).

Treatment of Antisocial Personality Disorder
The DSM-5 does not specify treatment options for APD (American Psychiatric Association, 2013).

The consensus is there is very little in the way of effective treatment for Antisocial Personality Disorder. Individuals with APD may have to be contained by the criminal justice system, through some combination of incapacitation (incarceration), supervision and monitoring (parole, probation, or house arrest), or informal monitoring by local law enforcement to contain their harmful behaviors to others to the greatest extent possible. Some research has shown that individuals with APD do feel degrees of empathy suggesting that at the very least some form of training may be possible (Meffer, Gazzola, den Boer, Bartells, 2013). There are also cases of individuals with APD converting to religion and finding strong conviction within themselves to reform and successfully integrate with society ("Confessions of a Christian Psychopath", 2011). The role of religion and spirituality as a possible treatment for APD is not well studied, and future research is warranted.

Incarceration may not be an effective deterrent to the antisocial individual, as those with APD have difficulty learning from mistakes, are rigid in decision making, and are typically unresponsive to punishment (De Brito, Viding, Kumari, Blackwood, and Sheilagh, 2013). A primary reason that individuals with APD are often non responsive to punishment and deterrence is an inner belief system that views constraints and consequences as a rudimentary function of society, a group which they do not see themselves a part of. The antisocial may see themselves as existing above or beyond society, and thus their existence need not be confined to society's limitations and restraints; and on the contrary, those limitations and restraints are best utilized when exploited to the full advantage of the individual. As a result, for many with APD, incarceration may only serve to reinforce their primary belief system and have little effect towards future deterrence.


Snip...

More...

https://www.theravive.com/therapedia/antisocial-personality-disorder-dsm--5-301.7-(f60.2)

Rhiannon12866

(256,954 posts)
29. Thanks so much! I remember DSM from college, I was a psych major
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 09:35 PM
Jun 2023

And senior year we all had "patients" (working with a psychologist/professor). Mine were an autistic boy and an agoraphobic woman. They both did well, especially the woman.

Rhiannon12866

(256,954 posts)
32. That terrific professor is listed on my college site as one of the "lost"
Sat Jun 17, 2023, 01:09 AM
Jun 2023

But I did an online Search and he has a private practice in Massachusetts! He was also very funny, once he did a bit from Bob Newhart's show - the one where he played a psychologist...

littlemissmartypants

(34,028 posts)
33. Bob Newhart's show is hilarious. And it's really special to have a prof, in any field,
Sat Jun 17, 2023, 01:19 AM
Jun 2023

Who's entertaining and instructive. I believe that we learn and remember more of what we learn when that special ingredient of novelty is incorporated in the process.

It's so great he's still out there, being a helper!



Rhiannon12866

(256,954 posts)
34. The thing was, I was his volunteer for his demonstration and it turned out to be a joke
Sat Jun 17, 2023, 01:28 AM
Jun 2023

But I didn't realize that it came from Bob Newhart until someone else showed this to me!




Response to Linda Ed (Reply #6)

Warpy

(114,650 posts)
12. Looks more like they're putting the squeeze on Nauta
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 06:47 PM
Jun 2023

who presumably doesn;t have TFG's money or fan club behind him. All he's got is TFG and we know TFG turns on people in an instant.


Javaman

(65,877 posts)
14. I give trump a week before he blabs something
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 07:00 PM
Jun 2023

He won’t be able to contain himself.

The news heads will be speculating left and right but trump will think they are revealing information about the trial and his pea brain will think he’s being attacked and is “unfair”, so he will blab

Cha

(319,609 posts)
15. Good luck w/Chronic Diarrhea of the
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 07:02 PM
Jun 2023

mouth Traitor trump.

It seems to me if he or a lawyer did violate that signed agreement they would be UP For MORE Charges, n'est-ce pas?

TY!

Rhiannon12866

(256,954 posts)
16. That's what we've heard, his constant reckless sounding off could result in more charged being filed
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 07:08 PM
Jun 2023

forgotmylogin

(7,961 posts)
18. Actually this might be a shrewd strategy...
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 07:16 PM
Jun 2023

They knew if they locked TFG down right off the bat magadonians would scream ELECTION INTERFERENCE.

So they're turning the screws just a little bit so if he walks into the clothesline they've set up they have perfect concrete justification to clamp down on him.

Rhiannon12866

(256,954 posts)
19. I think you may be right, and we know that TFG refuses to listen and will just charge ahead!
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 07:39 PM
Jun 2023

Jack Smith has gone this before - in The Hague!

littlemissmartypants

(34,028 posts)
22. Clothesline is good. But I'd prefer a trip wire with or without explosives.
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 07:45 PM
Jun 2023


That video would be GOLD.

Kablooie

(19,115 posts)
20. Face severe consequences? Trump?
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 07:42 PM
Jun 2023

I'll believe it when I see it.

He would convince someone else to get some of the docs and release them.
That person will face the severe consequences but Trump?... Naw. He had nothing to do with it.

Eyeball_Kid

(7,604 posts)
27. From upthread, Cannon already referred this motion to the judge
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 08:09 PM
Jun 2023

who ruled in favor of the prosecution in an earlier motion.

Cannon is going to stay out of the kitchen. She knows that she'll be the most scrutinized judge in the nation. Prosecutors and Courts will be watching her every move and they'll be ready to pounce. Cannon is in the big leagues and she doesn't want to show her naivete and partiality. It could end her career. She COULD lose her law license.

musclecar6

(1,884 posts)
24. This
Fri Jun 16, 2023, 07:51 PM
Jun 2023


Should be good. If ever, there was a guy who can’t stop conning, lying, cheating, manipulating being a Braggart, it’s obviously this guy.

lees1975

(7,098 posts)
35. Wouldn't the consequences of violating a judge's order be confinement?
Sat Jun 17, 2023, 11:40 AM
Jun 2023

That's what anyone else would get.

Time to stop treating this guy like he could shoot someone in the middle of fifth avenue and get away with it.

msfiddlestix

(8,179 posts)
41. Any violation of the order will be met with "severe consequences".
Sat Jun 17, 2023, 12:51 PM
Jun 2023

I get the sense those two words pack a very significant punch to it.

Response to Rhiannon12866 (Original post)

Karadeniz

(24,749 posts)
40. Trump won't be bothered to look at anything he has to go see, give up his phone or follow any SKIF
Sat Jun 17, 2023, 12:44 PM
Jun 2023

Procedure. He'll depend on his lawyers to take care of everything.

republianmushroom

(22,440 posts)
42. But, but Hillary e-mail.
Sat Jun 17, 2023, 01:14 PM
Jun 2023

trump will claim this is harsh and unusual punishment.
28 months and counting

onenote

(46,188 posts)
43. correcting misunderstandings in some of the posts in this thread - this is SOP
Sat Jun 17, 2023, 03:37 PM
Jun 2023

First, the "discovery materials" covered by the protective order do not included any classified materials. Those undoubtedly will be addressed separately.

Second, the defense has stated it does not object to the protective order.

Third, it is a standard discovery protective order -- Like most attorneys involved with litigation matters, I've drafted quite a few myself.

In short, it is nothing to get too excited about.

Here is the motion requesting the protective order:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653.23.0_2.pdf

Her is the proposed protective order:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653.23.1.pdf

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