Say NO to the "Fiscal Cliff" Deal

[the Weird Liberal]

Mr. President, you broke another campaign promise. How disappointing, if not surprising. Well, evidently not all rich Americans should pay their fair share.
This "Fiscal Cliff" (Fiscal Curb) deal is horrible for this and several other reasons, this must not pass.
I call on liberals and conservatives to work together to defeat it- at this point I'd rather go off the curb if I don't get what I want than avoid it if I barely get anything and practically sell my soul to the GOP.

[sharp_stick]

1. Oh please fuck off

with this mindless bullshit. I don't know if you have meetings or something to plan this kind of idiocy but if you do please at least try to get your fucking timing right. Like this it's just a mite obvious.

[SunSeeker]

2. +1

[Still Sensible]

3. +10

[jberryhill]

4. +1

[Carnage251]

5. +1

[the Weird Liberal]

7. You support the deal?

Please explain to me why it's a good deal, and/or the best deal we could've gotten.
OR do you only support it because it's what President Obama wanted?
He's a good guy, but he folds like a cheap house of cards, and he could've easily gotten the $250,000/year thing.

[Buzz Clik]

10. That easy! Awesome.

So Biden spent all those hours in the Senate convincing the Dems that a "sellout" was the best thing.

I am, truly, in awe.

[the Weird Liberal]

12. Joe Biden works for President Obama

I imagine that the Vice President did as his boss told him.
Are you kiddin' me?
Even Lindsey Graham admitted the President held a winning hand on the tax thing.

[Buzz Clik]

17. This thread is bullshit. Trash time.

[the Weird Liberal]

18. So, because you aren't winning an argument against me, you're going to insult and "trash" my thread?

Weak, man.

[billh58]

31. Winning this argument is like

taking candy from a Republican...

You lost 90% of DU with your whiny-assed post, and the rest with your amateurish fucking video.

As the man said -- piss off.

[NYC_SKP]

47. Why do you pretend to live in Maui when you actually have never been here?

You live in Delaware, you don't live on Maui.

Wow.

[NYC_SKP]

49. Wow, you are really on a DU friend making roll. (nt)

[sharp_stick]

21. Yes I do

I support what it does, I support the fact that the pukes are shitting their pants at the fact that they are so badly played that they know that it's only going to get worse.

I especially like the fact that it really pisses off people that I like to see pissed off.

[the Weird Liberal]

23. Well, then you're not a liberal.

This bill hurts the middle class and poor for the benefit of the rich.
If you support it, I know which side you prefer.
There is a class war in this nation, and thanks to collaborators we are losing the war.

[longship]

34. This bill is going down, and Obama and his team knew it would.

Politics isn't some mindless ying-yang dichotomy. It's more like a Texas Hold-Em game. You are complaining that Obama lost a hand when the game still is in play -- plus he has plenty of chips on the table. If he goes all-in, no Repub has enough chips.

Your concern is noted.

[Carnage251]

35. Taxes on the rich are going to rise and you are whining as if they are going to zero

Who the fuck are you to judge whether somebody is a liberal or not?

[Honeycombe8]

38. Jimmy, are you up and bothering those people on the internet again? Get back to bed!

Or I'll tell your father, when he gets home! And he'll take your computer away again.

[obama2terms]

44. Really

Are you really saying the republicans in the house would have voted for that when they wouldn't even agree to do it on incomes of 1 Million and above, I was shocked they agreed to the 450K. The 250K wasn't going to happen it's sad but true, maybe in the next congress but not this one...

[Divine Discontent]

28. "fuck off"? DU what has thou become. you don't agree with him, fine, but to say that here and be

supported in it by several folks is why this site has lost so many wonderful members who get attacked for speaking their opinions on policy.

This young guy is a clear left progressive, anyone who has watched one of his vids knows this. I think a lot of people who are interested in politics are just so sick of the fiscal cliff talk, they're happy with it being over, because, this is only a short term solution and we'll be hearing about all of this in a couple of months. There's no real reason to give a lot away, but I admit, it's not the worst deal either, as compromise had to be done, and none of the big social programs were touched. Overall, it's an acceptable, but not fair, outcome. Hopefully, public sentiment against the GOP is so strong, that they lose the House big time in less than 2 years, and we can get bills passed easily again! It's been horrible these past 2 years with these bastards there. But, yeah, don't take it out on a lib. Challenge him, sure, but to tell a young Dem to "fuck off", that's just messed up!

[otohara]

36. Messed Up and Rude

Ugh...

[Honeycombe8]

39. Ummmm....guess you're not familiar with the OP guy?

Look at it again....really closely. And then read the "f___k off" responses again carefully. I don't approve of f___k off posts, but I understand this one.

[sharp_stick]

42. The post deserved it

along with every other clone post like it that goes up.

[billh58]

33. +100

And then some...

[LW1977]

45. This ^^^^

[mike_c]

6. agree with the OP 100 percent....

It's a terrible deal, an utter sell out that sets up the next manufactured crisis right on schedule.

[the Weird Liberal]

8. Agreed

I don't understand the hostility on here, of all places, towards the truth on this matter.
I know it's DEMOCRATIC Underground, but not everything that comes out of the White House is the best possible solution for America, especially this deal.

If a President Romney started/supported this deal I would hope everyone on here would oppose it passionately.

[Buzz Clik]

9. 100%, eh? You think you can get conservatives to defeat this to put more tax burden on the wealthy?

Good luck!

The conservatives will do everything they can to defeat the deal, but you won't like the results.

I get the impression that the big opponents to this deal simply want full justification in screaming, "Fuck you, Repukes!", and any sort of compromise takes away from that anger and hate.

[the Weird Liberal]

11. "Anger and hate"?

The Republicans are doing the best they can to do the worst possible for America.
Is that worthy of neither emotion on our part?

[Buzz Clik]

13. Jesus Christ, man! There are roughly as many registered Republicans as Dems!

Do you really want to invest in hating all of them? Do you believe this country can survive with that sort of divisive thinking?

[the Weird Liberal]

15. You think I don't have Republican friends, family, etc?

The Republican Party in Congress is destroying this nation and her people economically, politically, socially, etc.
Of course the nation can survive a few liberals being angry at a few Republicans.
And who cares if there are about the same number of Democrats and Republicans? One party is semi-competent sometimes, the other party is destructive. We have to purify the Democratic Party and defeat the Republicans.
America has always been divided. The only question is which part of the nation gets its way... I hope the Left is victorious.

[Carnage251]

16. Republican purification has really helped them take control of the senate the past two elections

[the Weird Liberal]

20. They don't need to take the Senate

with "Democrats" like Joe Manchin, Max Baucus, and Mark Pryor, amongst other ConservaDem senators.
We have the White House (barely won it in 2012) and the Senate (which we're gonna lose in two years). They have the House, the Supreme Court, the State Legislatures, and the Governor's offices. Off of one election.

The Tea Party is still perfecting the purification process, but they basically control the Government (including apparently President Obama), so, their strategy seems to have worked at least somewhat well for them.

[Carnage251]

32. We were supposed to lose the senate last year

But repubs put up unelectable right wingers in Indiana, Missouri, Montana, North Dakota, and Virginia; add to that their losers from 2010 in Colorado, Delaware, and Nevada and tell me that the "purification" process is working, that is whats going to do their party in. Do you know who would replace those "ConservaDems"? asshats like rand paul and other far right wingers who don't believe in compromising for what is best for the country but only in pandering to their base.
Also you need to get out of your fantasy world if you think the tea party controls the president.

[mike_c]

14. you might not have noticed...

...because the crisis has been so manufactured that the Bush tax cuts expired last night quietly, without any of the predicted disaster, but WE ALREADY HAVE HIGHER TAXES on the wealthiest Americans. No need to pass anything. It already happened. I don't give a rat's buttocks what conservatives think about it. It's done.

Or maybe not. Instead of just letting those tax cuts expire, OUR SIDE has proposed making them permanent for people making between $250K and $450K annually, completely unnecessarily. AND we've helped the republicans set up the next manufactured crisis in a couple of months, so we can bargain some more of our gains away.

What we would need to do is not to "get conservatives to defeat this to put more tax burden on the wealthy"-- increasing that tax burden is already done. What we would need to get conservatives to agree to in the new Congress is TAX CUTS for the middle class and working poor, who make up much of their voting base.

[Drunken Irishman]

19. That's hilarious...

We've spent an entire month debating whether the tax cuts should be for those making $250,000 less, $400,000 less, $1 million less or for everyone. Republicans have suggested, from the start, they would oppose most any increase - even for the wealthy. But I'm to believe that they'll just roll over and take Obama's tax plan and allow cuts solely for those making $250,000 and less? You really believe that?

What makes you think the Republicans are going to roll over and support that plan? Don't you think they're going to play just as much hardball next week and next month as they are now? They're going to demand the cuts be higher than $250,000 and Obama can either say no and no deal gets done or he is forced down the road to compromise.

But any new tax legislation that is drafted will have to be drafted with the support of Republicans, since it'll originate in the House, and if they're not giving in to Obama now, what makes you think they will later?

More importantly, what makes you think they'll extend unemployment benefits?

[mike_c]

22. they didn't have to roll over....

But I'm to believe that they'll just roll over and take Obama's tax plan and allow cuts solely for those making $250,000 and less? You really believe that?

The tax cuts expired at midnight last night. No rollover required. As of RIGHT NOW, pending a House vote on a wholly unnecessary senate "deal," the Bush tax cuts for Americans making more than $250K annually have already expired, i.e. taxes on the wealthiest Americans have already been raised.

Yes, I believe that. If you don't, I don't know how to respond, because it's a simple truth. It happened. Last night at midnight.

Now we're in the process of 1) giving it away, and 2) setting up the next opportunity to give some more away.

[Drunken Irishman]

25. Uh...

All tax cuts have expired. That means a new deal will have to be drafted. In that deal, Republicans will have a say, whether we like it or not, because of controlling the House. For just a middle class tax cut, you know, for everyone making $250,000 or below, Democrats will need Republican support to even get it off the ground. I'm not dumb enough to buy that the Republicans will then roll over and support that tax cut without advocating for a cut for wealthy Americans.

It's just not going to happen. And if you believe the Republicans will get behind new tax legislation that cuts taxes only for middle class Americans, well then I just point you to a similar bill that didn't even make it last year because THE REPUBLICANS WON'T BEND ON THIS ISSUE. They will fight it and fight it and fight it and fight it. It doesn't matter if the tax cuts have expired all around - any new legislation WILL STILL HAVE TO BE VOTED ON BY REPUBLICANS. Expecting them to roll over on that, and support only tax cuts for the middle class, is absolute lunacy.

[plethoro]

24. I think you understand that when a presidents wins

the presidency as great as he did, he does not have to settle for approximately half of his original dollar amount, thereby leaving the door open to a Republican Party with even greater leverage in two months knowing the $400,000 in income for the rich is now cast in stone. Jesus, I wonder what the deal would have been if we had lost the election?

[Drunken Irishman]

26. I don't think you understand the stakes.

That's fine. I see that a lot on DU. But nothing changes if Obama skips out on this deal and we go over the cliff. In a week or a month, we're gonna have to debate tax cuts again and anyone who believes Republicans will just openly support any Democratic plan, even if it's a tax cut for 98% of the country, is fooling themselves.

So, what you guys are advocating is to go over the cliff, kick the can down the road in hopes that the Republicans will see their way and embrace that $250,000 tax level, which doesn't exist if you go over the cliff, so, you'll need to pass legislation implementing a tax cut for those individuals - but there is no guarantee the Republicans will come to the table and say, "sure, we'll support that ... we're fine with denying tax cuts for the wealthy". In fact, I'd wager they won't because they haven't already. That doesn't change next week, or next month.

Worse, you put the government in the position where we're now looking at tax cuts being held hostage by yet another major debate. The ideal scenario, obviously, would be that the Republicans would cave and support only a tax cut for 98% of Americans - but expecting that or believing that is completely idiotic. I think we all have seen the Republican games enough the last two years to realize they're not going to be on board with much of anything Democrats do.

So, we go down that path, we jump off the cliff, we get nothing right now, the taxes go up on all Americans, we come back, we debate, Boehner, maybe even Cantor as the new Speaker of the House, demands that we move the cuts from $250,000 to $500,000 and that's the only way the Republicans can support the bill in the House. Do you think the President then turns around and says, "no." and we're left with no tax cuts for anyone?

What you're advocating is for a fierce game of chicken that relies on a lot of confidence in Republicans seeing the light. I don't believe they will. What I think would happen is that we'd be back to square one debating how much of America should get a tax break - no compromises and no promises. Then the economy slides into a recession, jobs are lost, unemployment skyrockets, the stock market tanks - the world economy, which counts on the U.S. economy, fractures and slides deeper into recession. We see another global crisis ... more Americans are unemployed, but now they don't get their unemployment benefits because the Congress failed to extend 'em. And for what? A measly difference of what - $200,000?

Count me out.

[plethoro]

30. Baloney. If the Republicans do not agree to the plan, they go out of business as a Political Party.

Enough of them see the handwriting on the wall and join the Democrats, who then have greater numbers--and power--and vote a new deal even more stringent than before. You are moving nervously with fear. Someone has to start moving with purpose, and can the fear. Having said that, your argument was at least well thought out rather than someone simply saying, "you never loved Obama".

[Skittles]

41. I GAVE HIM KUDOS FOR THAT TOO!!!

yes INDEED

[plethoro]

43. Yes, Skittles,

DI is a thoughtful poster. However, I think we are at war with the Republicans and their puppet masters. It is a war we cannot shy away from even for a heartbeat else those who follow us will be subjected to that of which we can only imagine. Have a good year, Skittles.

[center][/center]

[budkin]

27. I agree. It's nuts to give this much.

Obama won the election. Plus we'll have to do this again in 2 months and give away more I just don't get it.

[Divine Discontent]

29. ugh, I know. can't wait!!! sheesh...

[Carnage251]

37. Why did you recommend your own thread?

Last edited Wed Jan 2, 2013, 09:21 AM - Edit history (2)

[AtheistCrusader]

40. Same reason he always does.