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Miles Archer

(23,272 posts)
Thu Feb 8, 2018, 04:55 PM Feb 2018

Quncy Jones calls Beatles "worst musicians in the world," Microsoft's Paul Allen "just like Hendrix"

As a composer, arranger and producer on scores of hit records, Quincy Jones is known for possessing some of the best ears in the music business. So it might surprise you to learn he's not a fan of the Beatles.

In a new interview, he gave a particularly unfavorable description of how he felt when he first heard the band. Speaking to Vulture, Jones recalled that "they were the worst musicians in the world. They were no-playing motherfuckers. Paul [McCartney] was the worst bass player I ever heard. And Ringo [Starr]? Don’t even talk about it."

Jones also talked about his role arranging "Love Is a Many-Splendored Thing" for Starr's 1970 solo album Sentimental Journey. "I remember once we were in the studio with George Martin," he said, "and Ringo had taken three hours for a four-bar thing he was trying to fix on a song. He couldn’t get it. We said, 'Mate, why don’t you get some lager and lime, some shepherd’s pie and take an hour and a half and relax a little bit?' So he did, and we called Ronnie Verrell, a jazz drummer. Ronnie came in for 15 minutes and tore it up. Ringo comes back and says, 'George, can you play it back for me one more time?' So George did, and Ringo says, 'That didn’t sound so bad.' And I said, 'Yeah, motherfucker, because it ain’t you.' Great guy, though."

Still, Jones admitted that he's a fan of Cream ("They could play&quot and noted that Microsoft founder Paul Allen "sings and plays just like Jimi Hendrix. ... I went on a trip on his yacht, and he had David Crosby, Joe Walsh, Sean Lennon — all those crazy motherfuckers. Then on the last two days, Stevie Wonder came on with his band and made Paul come up and play with him — he’s good, man."

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/quincy-jones-beatles/
56 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Quncy Jones calls Beatles "worst musicians in the world," Microsoft's Paul Allen "just like Hendrix" (Original Post) Miles Archer Feb 2018 OP
At one point in my chaotic life, I worked in a record store Sophia4 Feb 2018 #1
they clearly "borrowed" a lot. but then, so do all musicians. unblock Feb 2018 #7
Ask You Shall Receive Miles Archer Feb 2018 #12
Not sure, but I believe that record thucythucy Feb 2018 #23
Yes. After all, Western music is composed from 12 tones. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #20
Im still tripping on Brando and Pryor getting it on, LOL. bettyellen Feb 2018 #2
I was just thinking about that this morning. skypilot Feb 2018 #47
i'm a huge beatles fan, but i don't really have a problem with this critique unblock Feb 2018 #3
They were a lot of fun and played their role. I have quite a collection of their records. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #21
You made me laugh pretty hard! PJMcK Feb 2018 #52
Agree, as a huge Beatles fan Freddie Feb 2018 #29
Yeah, I have a professional jazz drummer friend who thinks that Ringo is incredibly underrated. cemaphonic Feb 2018 #48
I actually heard Paul Allen play a number of years ago. nolabear Feb 2018 #4
Kinda classless zipplewrath Feb 2018 #5
I do think I have heard that they wanted George Harrison because they needed a real guitar player lunasun Feb 2018 #6
yes, paul tried to be lead guitarist of the quarrymen unblock Feb 2018 #8
and to their credit, they knew their limitations and worked within them. unblock Feb 2018 #9
The Prince Story Miles Archer Feb 2018 #13
I've said this many times, but geardaddy Feb 2018 #19
I saw him more than once. An early career concert he had it easier to go off set list and just play lunasun Feb 2018 #34
WOW! What a performance! democratisphere Feb 2018 #27
I've watched that many times, and it just blows me away every time. It was a real tribute. Arkansas Granny Feb 2018 #46
Right. They were a lot of fun. That was the point. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #22
60 year anniversary of George joining "The Quarrymen" was 3 days ago... Miles Archer Feb 2018 #25
qunicy's biggest 60's hit? It's My Party featuring Leslie Gore nt msongs Feb 2018 #10
John, Paul, and George could write better songs in a coma. John Fante Feb 2018 #53
Ass! chuckstevens Feb 2018 #11
Message to Q: "Turn on, tune in, drop out". Uptight mofo! oasis Feb 2018 #14
Well! We all know what opinions are like, dont we? Floyd R. Turbo Feb 2018 #15
a couple of interviews were out yesterday.... dhill926 Feb 2018 #16
Worse than Winger? lame54 Feb 2018 #17
Quincy's out of money? Iggo Feb 2018 #18
GO QUINCY GO! MiltonBrown Feb 2018 #24
Jerry Lee Lewis???? ProfessorGAC Feb 2018 #26
The Killer speaks for me MiltonBrown Feb 2018 #30
We Are Diametrically Opposed With Regard To That ProfessorGAC Feb 2018 #32
Has my writing been unclear? I am a huge JLL fan. Since you have a piano avatar as you mentioned MiltonBrown Feb 2018 #33
No I'm Not ProfessorGAC Feb 2018 #36
Thanks for clearing that up. MiltonBrown Feb 2018 #37
Visited his restaurant in Memphis last year . Great history and a good band made for a great lunasun Feb 2018 #40
This message was self-deleted by its author Botany Feb 2018 #38
Never. MiltonBrown Feb 2018 #39
Sooo now someone is a Russian troll because they like QJones ?? Or don't like the Beatles?? lunasun Feb 2018 #41
I very well might be wrong but I doubt it Botany Feb 2018 #42
Yes, it's downright unAmerican to support American Quincy Jones' opinion that foreigners MiltonBrown Feb 2018 #43
Also, do you have a shred of evidence that I am a troll? MiltonBrown Feb 2018 #44
Okay, that's enough. Iggo Feb 2018 #50
Sad Cartoonist Feb 2018 #28
Pointless grumpy old man stuff BeyondGeography Feb 2018 #31
Old man who is losing it .... end of story. Botany Feb 2018 #35
I hope the Brando estate sues the piss out of this attention whore. sarcasmo Feb 2018 #45
A shame that a man with such an accomplished career feels a need to rag on fellow performers cemaphonic Feb 2018 #49
Who Cares What You Think Quincy Me. Feb 2018 #51
"Microsoft founder Paul Allen "sings and plays just like Jimi Hendrix." John Fante Feb 2018 #54
I don't like when musicians and actors criticize their peers n/t TexasBushwhacker Feb 2018 #55
Clickbait from Quincy, huh? Disappointing. Denzil_DC Feb 2018 #56
 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
1. At one point in my chaotic life, I worked in a record store
Thu Feb 8, 2018, 05:00 PM
Feb 2018

and found a copy of a record that was the original recording of one of the Beatles songs by a completely different group and different words -- not the exact same song, but the same melody. Finding it taught me a lot.

unblock

(56,198 posts)
7. they clearly "borrowed" a lot. but then, so do all musicians.
Thu Feb 8, 2018, 05:12 PM
Feb 2018

i once heard a jazz piano tune that was the inspiration for the piano part of "lady madonna".

paul changed just enough to escape copyright problems, but hear them back-to-back and there's zero doubt that paul heard it and then said, "i'm gonna use that."

wish i could remember the name of that tune....

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
20. Yes. After all, Western music is composed from 12 tones.
Thu Feb 8, 2018, 07:18 PM
Feb 2018

That, in and of itself, is extreme. But this was not just borrowing. It was much, much more. And I think it was legal. I was under the impression that they did not swipe the tune, but worked with its actual composer.

I don't want to say more because then I might spoil the music for some Beatles fans.

I have absolutely no problem with the Beatles and other groups that made the crossover for white Americans to enjoy the music of African-Americans much easier.

I am white, but I grew up on gospel music so my background was different from most Americans.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
2. Im still tripping on Brando and Pryor getting it on, LOL.
Thu Feb 8, 2018, 05:02 PM
Feb 2018

I totally get James Baldwin, but Pryor and him is odd to contemplate. HA

unblock

(56,198 posts)
3. i'm a huge beatles fan, but i don't really have a problem with this critique
Thu Feb 8, 2018, 05:09 PM
Feb 2018

they weren't about being the best technical musicians by any stretch.
they were always merely good enough.

they shined in other areas - composition, harmony, creativity, and just plain being prolific.

they didn't go for really complex, super-fast runs like eddie van halen; they didn't go for wild, syncopated rhythms with nearly ever bar different like stewart copeland; they didn't super-flourish every note like mariah carey.

but the simpler melodies and bass lines they came up with were brilliant nevertheless.


it's kinda like saying tchaikovsky wasn't a no-talent hack just because his music wasn't as complex and multi-layered as wagner's.
it's a fair point that his music wasn't as complex, but that doesn't mean tchaikovsky wasn't brilliant nevertheless.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
21. They were a lot of fun and played their role. I have quite a collection of their records.
Thu Feb 8, 2018, 07:19 PM
Feb 2018

PJMcK

(25,048 posts)
52. You made me laugh pretty hard!
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 03:21 PM
Feb 2018

I had to re-read your post three times to realize you meant The Beatles!

I thought you were making a joke about Wagner and Tchaikovsky!

For the laugh, you get a heart, Sophia4!

Freddie

(10,104 posts)
29. Agree, as a huge Beatles fan
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 09:05 AM
Feb 2018

They weren't trying to be technically brilliant, they were trying to make music - the complete package, and they succeeded more than any pop artists, before or after. Anyone who says Ringo wasn't a great drummer, please listen. He wasn't flashy drum solos, but everything he played fit precisely to bring the song to the next level.

cemaphonic

(4,138 posts)
48. Yeah, I have a professional jazz drummer friend who thinks that Ringo is incredibly underrated.
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 12:59 PM
Feb 2018

Ringo wasn't flashy, and he certainly had some technical limitations compared to many of the true virtuosos, but he was creative, always played tastefully, and without his metronomic precision in timekeeping, the Beatles could never have pulled off the complex arrangements they did with such primitive multitracking technology.

nolabear

(43,850 posts)
4. I actually heard Paul Allen play a number of years ago.
Thu Feb 8, 2018, 05:09 PM
Feb 2018

Little Feat (more recent incarnation--this was probably ten plus years ago) played the Sky Church at EMP here in Seattle and darned if Allen didn't come out and play a couple of songs with them. I wouldn't call it Hendrix...he had one of the guitarists whispering the chord changes to him til he caught on. He was fine, but it did strike me as a guy with a lot of money who got to do it because it was his house.

That interview was awesome for all the lack of fucks, though, and hey, if I was on a guy's yacht I might think he played pretty well too.

zipplewrath

(16,698 posts)
5. Kinda classless
Thu Feb 8, 2018, 05:10 PM
Feb 2018

Ragging on a band where half of them are dead. They were what they were. They made alot of people happy. Quincy doesn't have to tear other people down.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
6. I do think I have heard that they wanted George Harrison because they needed a real guitar player
Thu Feb 8, 2018, 05:11 PM
Feb 2018

great song writers Lennon McCartney
that you have to say Quincy

unblock

(56,198 posts)
8. yes, paul tried to be lead guitarist of the quarrymen
Thu Feb 8, 2018, 05:15 PM
Feb 2018

that did not pan out well. they struggled with the idea of including george because he was only 14 at the time.
they let him join when he was 15.

unblock

(56,198 posts)
9. and to their credit, they knew their limitations and worked within them.
Thu Feb 8, 2018, 05:17 PM
Feb 2018

they didn't try to do things they weren't capable of. they wrote for their own capabilities.

and when george knew he couldn't do justice to "while my guitar gently weeps", he brought in eric clapton.
brilliant move, that.

Miles Archer

(23,272 posts)
13. The Prince Story
Thu Feb 8, 2018, 05:33 PM
Feb 2018

I've posted it here a few times, but it's worth a repeat.

The long version is here: https://www.guitarplayer.com/players/tom-petty-and-others-tell-the-story-behind-princes-while-my-guitar-gently-weeps-solo

Basically, during rehearsals, Jeff Lynne's guitarist Marc Mann plays the first Clapton solo note for note, and when it comes time for Prince's big solo, he plays the same thing, note for note.

He tells the producer not to worry, everything will be fine at showtime. So he just whips it out, unrehearsed with the band, and the rest is musical history.



geardaddy

(25,392 posts)
19. I've said this many times, but
Thu Feb 8, 2018, 07:01 PM
Feb 2018

Prince in one of the most under-regarded guitar geniuses ever.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
34. I saw him more than once. An early career concert he had it easier to go off set list and just play
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 09:55 AM
Feb 2018

guitar .....wow what a night and long ....he just kept going
All his concerts are a fabulous show but the one where he played guitar just experimenting and spontaneous was another insight into his musical talent

democratisphere

(17,235 posts)
27. WOW! What a performance!
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 08:57 AM
Feb 2018

Stage full of the best of the best! Thanks for this Miles Archer! Amazing!

Miles Archer

(23,272 posts)
25. 60 year anniversary of George joining "The Quarrymen" was 3 days ago...
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 08:39 AM
Feb 2018
http://ultimateclassicrock.com/55-years-ago-harrison-joins-quarry-men/



The third part of the equation that would become the Beatles fell into place on Feb. 6, 1958. George Harrison joined the Quarry Men, the John Lennon-led group that Paul McCartney had joined as a second guitarist and singer the previous summer.

Harrison, who was a few weeks shy of his 15th birthday, had known McCartney for about a year. The two were students at the Liverpool Institute and frequently took the same bus to and from school. A friendship blossomed, and the two began jamming together, even after McCartney had moved from Speke to Allerton.

When the Quarry Men -- named after the Quarry Bank High School where the band was formed three years earlier -- were looking to bring in a third guitarist (they had the idea long before Lynyrd Skynyrd), McCartney suggested his friend. The audition took place, strangely enough, on the top of a double-decker bus. At McCartney's prompt, Harrison took out his guitar and played Bill Justis' R&B instrumental "Raunchy," a No. 2 hit on Sun Records in 1957.

Lennon was impressed with the note-perfect rendition. But the 17-year old Lennon, who was already at Liverpool Art College, had reservations about being in a group with such a youngster. As McCartney put it in Anthology, "It seemed an awful lot at the time. If we wanted to do anything grown-up we worried about George looking young. We thought, 'He doesn't shave. ... Can't we get him to look like a grown-up?'"

dhill926

(16,953 posts)
16. a couple of interviews were out yesterday....
Thu Feb 8, 2018, 06:33 PM
Feb 2018

damn entertaining reads. Dated Ivanka...."She a fine motherfucker." Poor Jared haha....and yep, Q is a musical giant. He can say whatever the fuck he wants....and I'm a huge Beatles man. But there's a big difference between pop music and those with real chops...

MiltonBrown

(322 posts)
24. GO QUINCY GO!
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 02:59 AM
Feb 2018

Compared with original American music, the Beatles were a pale imitation. Quincy Jones, Jerry Lee Lewis and I know it's blasphemy to say that and we don't care.






ProfessorGAC

(76,703 posts)
26. Jerry Lee Lewis????
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 08:54 AM
Feb 2018

Are you kidding? You can see by my avatar that i might have a different view of his skills.

MiltonBrown

(322 posts)
30. The Killer speaks for me
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 09:33 AM
Feb 2018

'I never did like the Beatles. I guess some of their early tunes were okay, but the rest of it, no, not for me.' JLL

Not sure what you mean by having a different view of his skills. IMO the Killers is the most talented American musician of them all and John Lennon was right to literally kiss his boots.

ProfessorGAC

(76,703 posts)
32. We Are Diametrically Opposed With Regard To That
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 09:44 AM
Feb 2018

I'm done. Don't want to hijack the thread.

MiltonBrown

(322 posts)
33. Has my writing been unclear? I am a huge JLL fan. Since you have a piano avatar as you mentioned
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 09:47 AM
Feb 2018

it seemed like a fair bet that you appreciate the Killer's music.

Are you a fan of Jerry Lee Lewis' music? I don't understand what you are trying to say.

MiltonBrown

(322 posts)
37. Thanks for clearing that up.
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 10:29 AM
Feb 2018

Indeed we are diametrically opposed regarding JLL and the Beatles. That doesn't mean that we can't be political allies and friends.

If everybody all liked the same things, this world would be a boring place. I love piano playing from ragtime and stride right on down the line. I'm sure there are a lot of players we both appreciate, even if we disagree on JLL. Cheers Prof.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
40. Visited his restaurant in Memphis last year . Great history and a good band made for a great
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 10:55 AM
Feb 2018

evening. Between the band sets they play some clips of jll (on a screen) from various points in his career . It was great for the youngins who came away with a new interest in jll.

Response to MiltonBrown (Reply #30)

MiltonBrown

(322 posts)
39. Never.
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 10:39 AM
Feb 2018

This thread is about Quincy Jones' opinion of the Beatles. There are tons of positive threads about the Beatles and I don't bother posting in those.

And right back attcha whatever that foreign writing says.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
41. Sooo now someone is a Russian troll because they like QJones ?? Or don't like the Beatles??
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 10:59 AM
Feb 2018

MiltonBrown

(322 posts)
43. Yes, it's downright unAmerican to support American Quincy Jones' opinion that foreigners
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 11:13 AM
Feb 2018

imitating American music isn't as good as the American originals. I'll wear that badge.

MiltonBrown

(322 posts)
44. Also, do you have a shred of evidence that I am a troll?
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 11:16 AM
Feb 2018

If not then kindly GFY. I'd expect the same if I made the accusation.

Cartoonist

(7,579 posts)
28. Sad
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 08:58 AM
Feb 2018

Old age? Envy?
The Beatles were more than musicians, they were a phenomenon. They changed the culture and the world.
Wagner didn't, and neither did Hendrix. Certainly Quincy didn't.

cemaphonic

(4,138 posts)
49. A shame that a man with such an accomplished career feels a need to rag on fellow performers
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 01:11 PM
Feb 2018

And if we're going to be catty about it, technical chops aren't the only measure of of musicianship. The Beatles might be "no-playing motherfuckers," but they wrote "Yesterday" and Quincy Jones wrote "We Are the World."

John Fante

(3,479 posts)
54. "Microsoft founder Paul Allen "sings and plays just like Jimi Hendrix."
Fri Feb 9, 2018, 03:53 PM
Feb 2018

Receipts, or I'm going to assume Quincy is angling for a loan.

Denzil_DC

(9,100 posts)
56. Clickbait from Quincy, huh? Disappointing.
Sat Feb 10, 2018, 11:13 AM
Feb 2018

Anybody who makes claims like The Beatles "were the worst musicians in the world" can't ever have tried to actually play the parts they came up with, and does a grave disservice not just to their abilities, but to how influential what they did was to contemporary and later musicians (vastly more influential than Jones, I'll wager, but I'll try to steer away from getting caught up in pointless backbiting).

The Beatles were never slow to acknowledge their own influences - unlike some other bands, they were very respectful of black musicianship, having been steeped in it by exposure to early records imported via Liverpool docks, and also took a strong stand against racial segregation among audiences during their American tours - from classical music, jazz, showtunes or other bands and artists that were developing as the same time as them.

All of the components - the guitar parts, basslines, drum parts, vocal harmonies, and also the production techniques - were always in service of the song, not technical virtuosity or gimmickry for the sake of it, not least because they were generally working within industry- and self-imposed limits on song length (it didn't hurt that they generally started out with strong song ideas to dress up in various ways).

However, there was abundant technical virtuosity, nevertheless.

Harrison started out playing short rockabilly-like solos in the early years, drawing on influences like Chet Atkins. Later, he progressed to lyrical solos like those on "Something" and "Let It Be", which are works of art in themselves, and continued to expand on this when he went solo.

Contrary to what was written by somebody above, it wasn't that Harrison couldn't have played a decent solo on "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" (he was an excellent slide guitar player, with a unique tone he developed by detuning harmony strings), Clapton was a close pal whose chops he loved and respected, and the two influenced and sparked off each other. Harrison was typically unegotistical enough to hand Clapton the chance to shine spectacularly (I know a lot of people love Prince's live version of the solo, but to me it's extended cliched technical noodling to no great purpose, whereas the original solo was soaked in emotion and very concise).

Ravi Shankar certainly didn't seem to have any complaints about Harrison's musical abilities when he began his education in Indian music and sitar. Other bands (like the Stones) used the sitar as more or less an exotic sound effect, just playing standard Western musical lines, whereas Harrison took the trouble to learn about the hinterland of the instrument (and went on to groundbreakingly meld Eastern and Western musical ideas and theory in songs like "Within You, Without You").

Neither McCartney nor Lennon were slouches either (I'll focus on their guitar playing, but they also developed into competent self-taught keyboard players, and McCartney was a good enough all-rounder to play most of the instruments, including drums, on the album Band On The Run).

Lennon was, unusually for him, quite humble about his guitar abilities, but as a rhythm/lead player, he was up there with Pete Townshend (listen to the brief, searing solos on "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band", for just a few examples). He also developed, after tuition by Donovan, a decent clawhammer folk fingerpicking style, in evidence on songs like "Dear Prudence".

Here's Donovan recounting this:



Here's a take on Lennon's (and, under his influence, McCartney's) developments in fingerpicking style: https://www.guitarplayer.com/technique/john-lennon-style-fingerpicking

And here's one technical look at some of The Beatles' guitar techniques:



McCartney and Starr are too well respected by renowned players of bass and drums over the years to need any serious defending, so I won't bother here, or this will be a very long post indeed.

None of them were classically trained, just self-taught, but this bred a humility that meant they were receptive to a wide range of influences and willing to learn from others, and they were blessed with excellent natural ears and sensibilities. They'd also happily bring in session payers when they'd add to a song (it's a great shame Billy Preston only joined them at the very tail end of their career).

Nevertheless, classically trained composer Howard Goodall has broadcast numerous times dissecting in awe The Beatles' composition techniques. If you can spare the time, any of his analyses online are well worth watching. Here's one:



Largely at McCartney's prodding, The Beatles embraced not just classical influences, but avante-garde ones, which came to spectacular fruition on "A Day In The Life", which I consider their masterpiece and listen to with fresh joy each time to this day. This then developed into still-startling songs like "I Am The Walrus", "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "Tomorrow Never Knows".

When you consider the musical and technical advances (and let's not forget George Martin's invaluable contribution to both those aspects) packed into a band recording career that didn't even span a decade, it's just ignorant to dismiss the important contribution of these musicians to all our cultures. And on past form, they were never slow to acknowledge that they were just one bunch of guys among many others who were stretching boundaries during that period.

It's a shame Quincy Jones apparently doesn't rate them. It's entirely his loss.
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