The DU Lounge
Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsWhy do Avengers get a movie when Dauntlesses sank more ships?
The Avenger was a fine plane, but the Dauntless was bad-ass.
Underpowered and slow, it nevertheless managed to shriek from the clouds, coming down in a near-vertical dive before it dropped its payload at the last second, before leveling off and getting away.
Avengers didn't do shit at Midway. Dauntlesses sank four Japanese carriers, which turned the tide of the whole damn war.
Hollywood.
You won't be getting my hard-earned cash this summer.
El Supremo
(20,365 posts)taterguy
(29,582 posts)El Supremo
(20,365 posts)They've never made a good movie about Midway. The plane that really won the Battle of Midway was the Devastator. The torpedo squadrons drew all the AA and CAP away from the dive bombers.
taterguy
(29,582 posts)None of the aircraft carriers from that battle are still around so they'd have to recreate them, probably with CGI which just doesn't look right.
Same goes for the airframes.
There wouldn't be enough potential ticket-buyers to make it worth the trouble.
Nevertheless, John Ford's documentary about it is decent and worth watching.
http://archive.org/details/the_battle_of_midway
And another thing: Midway wasn't the only battle where Dauntlesses fought. During the first two years of the war when a Japanese ship was sunk by an American plane, it was almost always a Dauntless.
Kaleva
(36,291 posts)The guy who played the Germans would place his AT guns, Panthers and Tigers in the woods undercover where I couldn't see them unless one of my own units was right next to them or they fired at one of my units.
Not wanting to get my best and brightest shot up before they had a chance to fight, I created the "Kamikaze Truck Corps". These were empty deuce and a half transportation trucks that's I'd send screaming across open ground hoping to draw enemy fire. The guy playing the Germans was too smart to open fire on mere trucks which would give away his positions so I had to move the trucks right next next to where I thought he might be hidden. The enemy would be found and my brave members of the "Kamikaze Truck Corps", armed with their .45 caliber pistols would shoot it out with the enemy. Those truck drivers died bravely but fast (it was an unequal battle). The important thing was that I learned the hiding places of the enemy. Especially of those freaking Tiger tanks which could blow the shit out of my Shermans if they got the first shot.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)You move a truck into one of the enemy gun positions and leave it there at the end of its move in Bypass Mode (in other words, just passin' through.) If there's an enemy unit in a hex you can't fire, so your piddly little deuce-and-a-half effectively shuts down an entire enemy position.
Ah, rules lawyers.
Kaleva
(36,291 posts)In another Avalon Hill game I played the Germans and the other guy was the Russians. My objective was to break thru his defenses and take a town at the other end of the board in so many moves. As he was the defender, he set up his units first. I looked and looked at his positions and wondered how I was to be able to pull this off. Then I noticed that he had left a single row of hexes uncovered that went right thru his lines of defense. I loaded up my infantry on trucks and placed my tanks accordingly. My friend asked me what the heck I was doing and I told him to watch and see.
I had the first turn and I drove pedal to the metal down that single row of hexes. I couldn't get all the way thru by the end of my turn but my friend could see that he had no way of stopping me so he started pulling his units back in a race to try and defend the town. By the end of my second turn, all my units were thru and I was on my way to the town to attack it. My friend managed to get a few units back there but they were easily dealt with and I won the game.
caraher
(6,278 posts)There's a great book called "Death Traps" by Belton Cooper, who was involved in recovering and repairing knocked out American tanks in France and Germany. The shocking part to me was that the Army pretty much lied to crews about the relative capabilities of the Sherman. I don't think there was anything unsound about the doctrine of using lighter vehicles for deep penetration and avoiding slugfests with German heavy armor, but as I recall Cooper painted a picture of tank crews in the states being told the Sherman could stand up to anything the Germans had in the field.
I used to play an old computer game where you command a Sherman, and the only routine that worked at all for me when I'd encounter German tanks was to call for artillery or air support and try not to be a target.
Kaleva
(36,291 posts)However, the tank destroyers were not always available so local commanders would send in the Shermans to take on the German heavyweight and alot of tankers died doing this.
taterguy
(29,582 posts)BTW, the torp squadrons played no role in the Dauntlesses finding the Japanese fleet.
The credit for that goes to an American submarine that a Japanese destroyer was chasing. The dive bombers saw the destroyer and followed it to the carriers.
Kaleva
(36,291 posts)Swede
(33,230 posts)JVS
(61,935 posts)Totally!
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)looks great in a tight black leather suit?
taterguy
(29,582 posts)But completely irrelevant to the subject of this discussion.
Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)The Dauntless was a pre-war design, the avenger just coming into its own during Midway. The SBD really did make a good account of itself though.
Other remark about the TBD Devestator at Midway was true. They took the shellacking the SBD's would have got if they got there first.
I liked the movie 'Midway' but one detail was so lame: The use of hand microphones by the USN pilots.
taterguy
(29,582 posts)American Military Aircraft, copyright 2003 by Amber Books Ltd.
It clearly states:
"SBDs sank more Japanese shipping than any other US aircraft in the Pacific."
Yes, there was lots of PTO action after Midway (Whatever the hell that is).
But the fact remains that Dauntlesses still sank more ships than any other US airplane.
ps: You only noticed one lame detail in the movie Midway? Not even the jet crashing into the flight deck. Pay more attention next time.
caraher
(6,278 posts)Pretty much a non-upgrade upgrade relative to the Dauntless.
Avengers had their uses but yeah, it was the SBD that did the heavy lifting sinking Japanese ships.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)I haven't read THAT very book, but have been an avid reader of WW2, especially in regards to hardware. I'm the sort that remembers technical details of aircraft/vehicles like a sports fanatic memorizes batting averages.
taterguy
(29,582 posts)One of the things you'll notice if you hang around here long enough is that I never need a reason to be nasty.
Ptah
(33,023 posts)taterguy
(29,582 posts)BrownianNotion
(21 posts)And Hulk Smash
mucifer
(23,521 posts)Although no one should make the kinda money these people are making for a silly movie.
Ptah
(33,023 posts)It's about some cartoon characters.
taterguy
(29,582 posts)Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)'````````,,,,,,,,,
'```````|,)-;: (,|
'```___,|..____..|,___
``````(|`e`)`e`|)``
```````\``/_```/ Am I right?
````````\__-__/
'`'''"``.,-"/_\v/_\"-,
`'```/``|``{}``|``\
`'``/``/|''`/^\`''|\`_\
'"``\`\`|`'/`|`\`|/`/
`'```\/\|`/`|``|/\/
`````|/,/__|___,\|
'`````//`^"'"^`|`\
`````/ ``|```|``\
```` /` `|```|``\
'````|``|` `|``|
'````|``\` ``|`\
'```` |``/` `|`\
'`````|``/ | `\
'````_ |_/ |__|
'``(___| |___ )
NoPasaran
(17,291 posts)Wandering around the terminal I discovered they have an SBD on display. What really impressed me about it was that the Dauntless was such a small aircraft. I've also seen an Avenger or two and they are muy grande.
Response to NoPasaran (Reply #25)
caraher This message was self-deleted by its author.
taterguy
(29,582 posts)Now I'm bummed I missed the Dauntless.
Must have been in a different part of the airport.
I'm thinking about roadtripping to Charleston so I can tour the Essex-class Yorktown.
Hayabusa
(2,135 posts)while not Dauntless', will certainly sink a Battleship that's coming after them...
taterguy
(29,582 posts)I'm waiting.
El Supremo
(20,365 posts)19 torpedo hits. Plus 17 bombs from SB2Cs. The torpedoes are what sunk her.
http://padresteve.com/2011/10/25/the-battle-of-leyte-gulf-sinking-the-musashi/
Hayabusa
(2,135 posts)that the Battleship movie has absolutely no chance at all this summer compared to the Avengers. Thus, the Avengers will sink the battleship.
taterguy
(29,582 posts)bluedigger
(17,086 posts)You're welcome.