I told my mom she should try acupuncture and hypnotherapy for pain relief.

[Tobin S.]

She said she would stick to her medicinal bourbon.

She really does suffer from chronic pain. She has what she calls a degenerative back disease which does as the name sounds. She's had three surgeries on her neck for broken vertebrae and she has had a couple of herniated discs in other spots in her spine.

As far as booze goes, I've gone through times in my life when I've drank heavily. It runs in the family on both sides. Where there's four members of the Tobin clan you'll find a fifth.

But in the past several years I've been drinking less and less. I recently went through a period of two years where I didn't have a drink. Over the past summer and fall I got into it a little again, but just a six pack on Sunday afternoons for the most part. I'm finding over the past month or so that I don't even want that anymore. It's becoming more of a hindrance than I've ever noticed before now. As I've gotten older I've been becoming more of a fan of mental clarity. It's gotten to the point now that an alcohol buzz has become unpleasant for me.

[Ron Obvious]

1. Not to be a pain, but acupuncture has never shown anything beyond placebo effect

It seems to be supported only by anecdotes, the way any placebo treatment does.

I'm not sure about hypnotherapy to be fair.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. The Mayo Clinic thinks it's a legitimate treatment method

and that the outcomes are not merely anecdotal or the result of the placebo effect: "Though the concept of holistic healing methods is difficult for some to explain or comprehend, a growing body of evidence is documenting empirical results from the medical practice. Research has shown acupuncture’s effectiveness in treating sports injuries, pain management, insomnia, anxiety, depression, migraines, arthritis and infertility." https://mayoclinichealthsystem.org/hometown-health/speaking-of-health/reasons-people-dont-get-acupuncture

I tried it for an injured knee after the effects of cortisone shots didn't last. I was extremely skeptical and doubted it would do anything but I got talked into it by a friend. Much to my amazement it did work; after a half-dozen or so treatments the pain was gone. Yes, that's an anecdote but from someone who didn't believe it would do any good. The Mayo Clinic recommends it as a non-invasive treatment with no side effects that can help a number of conditions. There's no harm in giving it a try, at least.

[Ron Obvious]

7. As far as I know, double-blind tests haven't shown any effect beyond placebo effect.

Nor does it appear to matter where exactly you insert the needles, so the underlying model of energy lines or points(Chi) is completely discredited.

Maybe inserting needles into the body releases endorphins, I really don't know. I did give it a try myself a few years ago after I had reached my medical deductible, simply to be able to say I had given it a try. The naturopath I saw promised to lower my blood pressure with it, guaranteed it in fact, but it had absolutely zero effect.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. I dunno, but I'm going with the Mayo Clinic. They aren't amateurs;

they are one of the top medical centers in the U.S. and they wouldn't recommend a treatment if they didn't have a reasonable scientific basis for it.

[Ron Obvious]

12. I agree about the Mayo Clinic

But that article was rather thin soup and not, IMO, up to their usual standards.

"In fact, recent studies in Germany and Australia have discovered that acupuncture, when used in conjunction with in vitro fertilization, can boost a woman’s odds of successfully conceiving and carrying a baby up by 50 percent than those who didn't use acupuncture."

Oh really? And how do they think that's supposed to work exactly? There's a lot of sloppy science out there, and if that number were anywhere near accurate and reproducible, it would revolutionise fertility treatments and probably lead to a Nobel prize in Medicine.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. Even if the placebo effect is what causes the pain to go away,

you have still achieved the goal of pain relief, which is what you wanted in the first place. Some researchers think the placebo effect is a real thing. https://www.health.harvard.edu/mental-health/the-power-of-the-placebo-effect

[Ron Obvious]

14. I have no doubt the placebo effect is a real thing

Which is why drugs and treatments have to be tested to show superior results to it to be considered worthwhile.

[fierywoman]

17. Exactly. Interesting book:You-Are-Placebo-Making-Matter by Dr. Joe Dispenza

[kimbutgar]

8. I had this side pain for several months

Went to doctor who gave me pain pills. Went to an accuputurist and I was better after two sessions. Plus she did cupping.

[shanny]

10. Tell that to my dog.

He's a real believer in woo.

[procon]

11. After one acupuncture I had quite remarkable relief

For post shingles nerve pain. At the end of 3 sessions I was pain free, something that multiple Rd pain meds over 6 months had been unable to achieve.

I was a diehard skeptic, went on a dare, and had no anticipation that acupuncture would do anything for me. It worked for me, so 2 years out I'm still pain free and a humbled convert.

[barbtries]

16. i'll offer an anecdote.

i have degenerative disc disease and have avoided the neurosurgeon and gotten off chronic pain meds for about 20 years now. when i have an episode i go see my acupuncturist first. can't speak to hypnotherapy, but i love acupuncture.

https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/features/acupuncture-pain-killer#1

quote: "...study after study indicates that, yes, acupuncture can work."

[DENVERPOPS]

21. Info for Ron and others

I am not an accupuncturist, but know a great deal about the "Acupuncturists" in the U.S.
A Qualified acupuncturist has typically done four years of study in one of the better accredited acupuncturist schools in the U.S. They must pass all the course curriculum, plus a segment called TCM which is Traditional Chinese Medicine, which includes the drugs and herbs used in this art. Once they have finished, they have to pass a National Test to become licensed to practice. It is not an easy test, with many good graduates commonly failing one or more of the parts.

OK, that having been said, there is much more for people to understand. As I have observed over the past 6-8 years, As the licensing evolved, there were many people who "declared" they were acupuncturists.
Massage therapists, holistic health people, etc etc etc.

Because they had previously advertised they were acupuncturists, I heard that they were automatically "grandfathered" in when the licensing took effect. This was a big group of people, who, when they heard about the upcoming licensing suddenly printed business cards showing acupuncture and got grand fathered in and received their licensing.No courses, no National exam.

Then, the chiropractors wanted in, so they convinced the State Licensing boards that they knew most of the skills from their chiropractic studies, and the State Legislature told them they needed a 30-60 hour course and then they would be certified in Acupuncture. So, a number of weekends, and NO National exam, they got into the business of acupuncture.
Then, all the Physical Therapists did the same thing. They already did something called "Dry Needling" as part of their work, but not at all as comprehensive as an accredited acupuncturist's four years. AND, again, no National Certification Test. All they had to do was 30 hours, so several weekends and they all became Licensed acupuncturists.

So now, as a large percentage of the people practicing "acupuncture" there are a considerable amount of people working in the field, who don't have the Four years of study, and much less the National Board Certification Tests.

Now, if you try a legitimate study of the ability of acupuncture to help, and a number of these "acupuncturists" are involved, it proves mistakenly that acupuncture doesn't work.

If you go to an acupuncturist that is comprehensively trained in the practice of acupuncture, typically four years at an accredited Acupuncture school, and having passed the National Test, you will have FAR greater success rate.

[FirstLight]

2. What about

Last edited Mon Jan 28, 2019, 08:30 PM - Edit history (1)

Medicinal marijuana? You can still get a buzz, and CBD really does work on pain and inflammation...they even make topical lotions for pain...

[LuckyCharms]

3. Give your mom a hug for me...

I have it also, and it's brutal.

I don't drink, and I can't take NSAIDS. My only relief is one and only one Hydrocodone/Acetaminophen tablet per day, as well as one muscle relaxant. I am supposed to take the Hydrocodone every 6 hours, but I worry about addiction, so I just take one per day. It doesn't really help too much at that low of a dose, but it does take the edge off a bit.

Also, trying to stretch the spine out as much and as often as possible offers temprary relief. I wish I had better advice, but I'm not a professional. It's a rough road.

[2naSalit]

5. I make toicals for pain

they're easy to make. Get some coconut oil and some hemp or marijuana, warm up the oil to just hotter than you can stick your finger in, ad the herb (about 1/5 the amount of oil in fluid measure) and stir for about half an hour maintaining the heat. Remove from heat and strain out the solid parts through cheesecloth or a coffee filter and let cool. Use as needed. There is no known overdose amount for topical use so use as it works for you. I find it is helpful for skin issues like healing burns and cuts as well as pain relief for my back and shoulder ailments that sound like your mother's. I use it on my feet at night for fibroid tumors in my arches, it seems to be dissolving them.

You don't get a buzz from the topicals that I have ever heard of.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. Tell your mom that the Mayo Clinic thinks it's a legit treatment that can help chronic pain.

"Though the concept of holistic healing methods is difficult for some to explain or comprehend, a growing body of evidence is documenting empirical results from the medical practice. Research has shown acupuncture’s effectiveness." https://mayoclinichealthsystem.org/hometown-health/speaking-of-health/reasons-people-dont-get-acupuncture

It's non-invasive, doesn't hurt, might help, and is a whole lot more healthful than drinking.

[in2herbs]

18. Booze diminishes the effect of marijuana. If she decides to stop the booze I would recommend

acupuncture, CBD oil, and a 1:1 oil (half CBD and half THC.) No THC high with this 1:1 combination. Directly email some of these marijuana producers and ask them about dosage. They have loads of info and are anxious to share it. Also Apothecana.com has a lotion with MJ, Arnica, Juniper Berry, and other and herbs which works like magic on people that I know with similar issues. About $60/bottle.

[earthshine]

19. I am a certified reflexologist. I have an opinion.

Reflexology is the "little brother" of acupuncture. It is a form of acupressure, which uses some of the same charts as acupuncture. It's acupuncture without puncturing needles.

It is my opinion that the effectiveness of the treatment depends on the nature of the illness. If it is caused by a bodily imbalance, such as some common types of headaches and digestive problems, holistic medicine can help. If it is caused by a hard problem, such as a broken bones or bad chemicals, holistic medicine is wholly useless.

I get very riled up when I hear of people who have cancer trying to treat it with holistic methods like herbs and massage. Go to the Doctor! The real Doctor. It's your life were talking about.

As for your Mom, she has a mix of hard and soft problems. There's broken bone and wasted disks. That's hard. But, what it makes it worse is all the muscle tension around the spine. That's soft.

There's no doubt in my mind that treating the stress and tension will help her overall, reduce her pain, and increase her mobility. Acupuncture, massage, reflexology, physical therapy, exercise, and some good herbal tea can help there. Strengthening the other muscles around the spine will help a lot.

Alcohol is a poison. It may provide some deadening of the pain, but will retard overall healing. If one must self-medicate, I'd recommend medical MJ. (MJ can instantly relax muscles depending on the person.)

Also, as far the effectiveness of acupuncture, it very much depends on the talent of the practitioner. I suggest only going to someone who actually knows "Chinese medicine" and seems intuitive. Many people who practice these things are ditz brains who do not really "feel it."

If you say it hurts here (e.g., the elbow), and the practitioner only sticks a needle in that area, go elsewhere! Acupuncture is generally "action at a distance." A skilled practitioner will put those needles in the shoulder or neck, more toward the root of the nerve.

That having been said, for my own back problems, I have had acupuncture twice, and it didn't do a thing for me. But, I have had a number of spine-related problems greatly relieved by back-cracking Chiropractors. If the Chiropractor wants to sell you herbs, go elsewhere.

Good luck!

[mysteryowl]

20. Medical Marijuana and CBD

People are having good results with pain relief.