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Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsI had five patients today refuse the flu vaccine. I convinced them all to get it anyway.
Five for five, baby!
Keepin' it healthy!...
hlthe2b
(102,236 posts)Doreen
(11,686 posts)sprinkleeninow
(20,245 posts)Thekaspervote
(32,762 posts)People, but not for everyone
Stonepounder
(4,033 posts)Got to start getting them again though. Flu and IPF just don't go together.
Aristus
(66,328 posts)The vast majority of the time, the patient gets the vaccine, comes down with a completely unrelated condition a little while later, and thinks that whatever he has is the flu, or that the vaccine gave it to him.
I can't count how many patients get a little sniffle after the vaccine, and call it 'the flu'.
When I question other patients who claim this, and ask for their principle symptoms, they'll say "nausea and vomiting'; some people call this the 'stomach flu'. This is a misnomer; influenza is respiratory in nature, and doesn't include digestive symptoms.
On rare occasions, someone will be exposed to a genuine influenza virus in the roughly two-week period after receiving the vaccine before the antibodies have reached full potency, and then they'll get sick. But again, it wasn't the vaccine that gave them the flu.
Ultimately, the best reason for getting the vaccine is not that you won't get the flu yourself, but that you won't pass it on after being exposed to it. Protecting other people by herd immunity may seem like a quixotic goal in our relentlessly 'me-me-me-me' society, but let's try to achieve it anyway, huh?
Stonepounder
(4,033 posts)what I get is aches, low grade fever, and sweating that last for 2-3 days. This occurs every time I get a flu shot.
However, I guess I'll just have to take it as it comes, since getting the flu in someone with IPF is not something I want ro experience.
Aristus
(66,328 posts)I won't describe it; you'll know it if you've got it.
The others are fairly non-specific symptoms. And since the trade-off is not dying from influenza, or causing someone else to die of influenza, these are what we call tolerable side effects.
Stonepounder
(4,033 posts)I think I know a little bit about respiratory issues.
jayfish
(10,039 posts)I got sick within a couple hours. ...with actual flu symptoms. ...and I don't get sick. I chalked it up the vaccine triggering an immune response in my body. The symptoms dissipated within 24 hours.
Aristus
(66,328 posts)"It's me! I'm the exception! I'm the special one!"
I still politely but firmly advise these patients to get their immunization.
If everyone has a story like that then there must be something to it. ..right? Math says having that reaction the one and only time I received the vaccination is unlikely. Making it... ...not so special. I'll take math over biology our immunology every day. Just be honest about it. Say "you might have a reaction to this that mimics your bodies immune response to influenza. It's usually harmless and it will pass."
ON EDIT: I know you probably can't say that. It was more of a "royal you" type recommendation.
Aristus
(66,328 posts)that singles them out. "It's for everyone else; not for me."
Nah, it's for everyone except those allergic to the vaccine itself.
I wish I knew when preventing disease became such a hot-button issue...
TomSlick
(11,098 posts)for years the Army gave me a flu shot - no chance to opt out. For years, every time I came down with the flu. Not a bad case but the flu nevertheless.
A few years ago, I started getting a flu shot voluntarily. There have been no ill effects all those years and have not had the flu through flu-season. My conclusion is the vaccine has gotten better.
Go for it. My bet is that you will be glad you did.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)I was sharing a big building with many bunk beds during a convoy mission so I probably caught something from somebody. Every time I got the flu shot as a civilian I never got sick.
Usually when I receive a check up I'm asked if I want a flu shot yes or no. Nothing more than that.
Aussie105
(5,383 posts)If your flu vaccine doesn't 'work', for you at least get it, so that you don't become a walking virus dissemination device for those who can't be immunised (very young children) and people with compromised immune systems (the elderly for instance).
Some time ago, a co-worker decided to 'soldier on' during the swine flu epidemic. The advice at the time was to see a doctor if you thought you had the flu and get tested, but she didn't.
Gave it to me, who has a compromised immune system. I was as sick as a dog (pig?) for weeks. Thanks, bitch!
highmindedhavi
(355 posts)CaliforniaPeggy
(149,607 posts)Why were they refusing the flu vaccine? In general, of course. I wouldn't want to violate HIPPA.
And, Good for you!
Aristus
(66,328 posts)The last one was a tough nut to crack. It took a couple of minutes to convince her.
Everybody else, they crumbled pretty quickly once I said "You really should get your vaccine." Whatever idiocy they heard, they weren't very committed to it, thank goodness.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,683 posts)so I should go get one. One case of the flu was enough - I was young (in college) when I got it during the Hong Kong flu epidemic of 1968-69; if I ever get that sick again now that I'm old I probably won't live through it. The flu shot naysayers obviously have never experienced the "real" flu. It's nothing to mess with.
Freddie
(9,265 posts)Winter of 17-18 I didnt get around to it and got the nasty flu that was going around that year. Was sick for 3 weeks. Never again. Getting my shot ASAP.
yellowdogintexas
(22,252 posts)I was miserable
Worried senior
(1,328 posts)flu too. I also had two little kids and a baby, thought I'd never make it thru the misery.
LeftInTX
(25,288 posts)I woke up fine and spotted some chocolate covered cherries under the tree. I started eating one. My mom said, "You're gonna get sick if you eat that on an empty stomach". Five minutes later, I was sick. But so was my sister and she hadn't stolen any candy.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,683 posts)Influenza isn't gastrointestinal, it's respiratory, and it causes severe headache, fever, muscle aches, sore throat and coughing. It's miserable but the one thing it doesn't do is make you puke.
Cirque du So-What
(25,932 posts)Am I wrong in waiting? Usually, I wait until mid-October so that I still have protection later in the season.
Aristus
(66,328 posts)It takes about two weeks for the influenza antibodies to reach full strength, so the sooner, the better.
Cirque du So-What
(25,932 posts)Vdizzle
(383 posts)Intent on implanting illness or tracking devices in ordinary law abiding citizens. Why else would you try to convince someone refusing a potentially life saving vaccine to get it anyway. You should be ashamed. I am appalled that you would do the gubbmints bidding. Appalled sir! Or Miss! Appalled! You know how bad vaccines are to your health??!!
Oh... youre a doctor and you really are looking out for peoples well being? Oh dear. Well dont I just feel like a monkeys uncle.
Carry on.
Aristus
(66,328 posts)But yes to everything else...
sprinkleeninow
(20,245 posts)😉
BigmanPigman
(51,590 posts)"Back to School" speech each year since I would be sick 90% of the time I taught. Chicken pox, mono, pneumonia and bronchitis, etc. The parents knew I meant business too.
Aussie105
(5,383 posts)seeing healthy kids carry viruses. They might feel a bit off, but . . . .parents go: ya gotta go to school, kid.
Meanwhile the adults who work in schools pick up everything.
Full hazmat suit and danger money should come with the job.
yellowdogintexas
(22,252 posts)and was far sicker than she was.
On the other hand, I seldom did.
BigmanPigman
(51,590 posts)I have permanent health problems from teaching. Some parents can't afford baby sitters so they send their kids to school knowing they are sick. They get better after a few days but it would take me a couple of weeks and working while sick really sucks.
3catwoman3
(23,975 posts)...there are any symptoms, so people are passing on illnesses that they dont even know they have. Unless you never go anywhere, or never see anyone, youre going to catch stuff.
demigoddess
(6,640 posts)I have gotten the shot. My doctor thought I was an anti-vaxxer but I did not think I should take a shot when others needed it and I didn't. My parents never seemed to have the flu, my siblings never did, and my kids never did either. Even now, they have not told me of having the flu. But I get the shot.Who knows, I will either never get it or it might just kill me if I do.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,683 posts)I got the Hong Kong flu in the '68 epidemic and I thought I'd have to get better in order to die. I started getting flu shots when they first became available because I never want to feel that bad again, and at my age now it would probably do me in. The older you get the weaker your immune system becomes. It's good that you're getting the shot now.
demigoddess
(6,640 posts)However, I still have not had any relatives who have died of the flu and never heard they had it. MS, old age, and cancer but no flu deaths in my family.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,683 posts)I don't want to be the first one in 100 years.
yardwork
(61,599 posts)I was just a little kid at the time. I get my annual flu shot.
cilla4progress
(24,728 posts)A!
Doin' what you were made for!
Karadeniz
(22,513 posts)PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,853 posts)but because I had flu any number of times in my youth, including the Asian flu which was a type A, the most virulent and deadly. While I probably wouldn't discourage others from getting a flu shot, I understand that natural immunity, from having gotten the disease, is better than vaccine immunity.
Don't get me wrong. While I appreciate that someone who got smallpox and survived is forever immune, I'm not about to suggest not getting a smallpox vaccine. Okay, that's not the best example as smallpox no longer exists except in stocks in labs (and why the fuck are they still being preserved?) but as someone who lived through several flu epidemics before the vaccine was commonly available, I will say a polite no, thanks.
Meanwhile, my kids got all their then extant vaccines. They were a bit too old for the chicken pox vaccine, but they got the MMR and of course polio and I don't even know what else.
I'm now 71, and I will not rule out getting a flu shot in the future, but for now, I'll pass.
But my real question is, how exactly did you convince them?
Aussie105
(5,383 posts)but past exposure to the flu does not give you immunity to future exposure.
There is no such thing as 'natural immunity' to this virus from previous exposures.
Why?
The damn thing mutates!
And even subtle changes in the exterior protein coat of the virus will make any pre-existing antibodies not recognise it. You are wide open to attack by any new strain.
At 71, your immune system won't be at it's best. Get the vaccine, make sure it is the latest, and hope you don't catch the real thing in the next two weeks.
I'm your age and get the flu shot every year. The latest shot was a mix against 6 different flu strains. Some old, some newly mutated.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,853 posts)But among the reason people over age 50 mostly didn't get the flu in the dreadful 1918 epidemic, was that they'd all been through a flu epidemic 50 years earlier. Another type A flu.
Yes, getting the flu does give immunity to future exposures.
At 71 I'm the healthiest person I know my age. I no longer get colds. Okay, so I do get seasonal allergies which are highly annoying but they're not as bad here in New Mexico where I currently live as they were in other places. But I know people half my age who aren't nearly so healthy. Which of course, raises the question, why is that?
The problem with the flu vaccine, which while a wonderful thing, is that it offers a very narrow protection, because it's targeted at whatever version of the flu the vaccine makers think will be around the upcoming flu season. Yes, it's a lot better than nothing, but given that the last time I got a flu was about 1973, I think I'm on to something with my explanation of natural immunity.
Again, I will NOT try to convince someone else they shouldn't get the shot. Heck, last year I made sure my younger brother got a shot, since he'd been putting it off and since he's blind, getting to a pharmacy to get the vaccine was a bit tricky. He was very happy I helped him. Which reminds me, I'll be seeing him in November, so I'll make sure he gets his flu shot when I'm visiting.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)Besides all our decades of seasonal flues, you and I lived through three flu pandemics; 1957, 1968, and of course, 2009.
You mentioned 1918 pandemic and how people over 50 weren't the ones getting sick and dying. They had lived through an earlier pandemic. Same thing happened in 2009 for older adults. Why? I read it was because they were exposed to the same strain (how many mutations?) in the 1957 Pandemic. I was still working in public school in 2009. All the kids were sick, as well as younger staff members. Over 50's weren't. We started joking that it looked more like a Senior Center than an Elementary school.
That 1968 Flu had me in bed for a week. I was living alone and my Mom came to stay with me to take of me. Mom did catch the flu from me. She was in her 50's then.
I was a very sickly child and young adult. For whatever reason, I haven't caught the flu since I was in my 40's. Not so much as a sniffle despite being around a lot of sick kids and adults in all those decades. Never had a flu shot in my life.
As far as allergies, I never had pollen allergy until I moved to SW Florida. It was very bad living there. Probably because I was never exposed to the same type of pollen there (tropical plants?) as up North? When I moved back up North, no more pollen allergy. Again, exposure. exposure.
I would never tell anyone not to get a flu shot. Your choice to if you desire. Just leave elderly me alone.
To the OP, I do not have or go to doctors. You will be trying to convince thin air.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,853 posts)I remember missing lots of school my kindergarten year, then only one day in first grade. The rest of elementary school I got the usual illnesses, and several colds a year through my twenties.
Since then, essentially nothing.
I likewise was around for the pandemics in 1957, 1968, 2009, and whatever other ones have occurred since I was born.
People don't trust their immune system as much as they should. I'm not advocating we give up vaccines, but in recent decades it's been noticed that keeping kids too clean and not having cats or dogs in the house means, their immune systems don't develop as designed. We're supposed to be exposed to lots of things in our early years, build a strong immune system, and then have a healthy adulthood.
Again, I'm not saying we should go back to a world where a lot of kids died early because of diseases we can now prevent or cure. But I'm not remotely convinced that I personally need a flu shot.
I do need to get the new shingles vaccine, however.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,683 posts)the fact that they'd had no previous exposure to the virus. It was because of a phenomenon known as a cytokine storm, in which the virus turns the host's immune systems against them. Since younger people have stronger immune systems the cytokine storm was more likely to kill them. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140227142250.htm#targetText=A%20cytokine%20storm%20is%20an,immune%20cells%20into%20the%20lungs.
Aristus
(66,328 posts)The people who survived the Spanish Flu in 1918 did so, not because they'd survived an influenza epidemic fifty years before, but because they had a natural immunity from a weaker strain of the very same virus that circulated earlier that year, not fifty years before.
And I have to wonder how many of the fifty million people who died from the flu in 1918-1919 thought to themselves before they were carried off: "Yay! Now I'll have a natural immunity!" I can guarantee you, if a vaccine had been available, not one of them would have said: "Nah, I'll wait to hear from Jenny McCarthy on the subject."
Skittles
(153,156 posts)and this is on a PROGRESSIVE board - *YIKES*
getting mine when I'm finished with antibiotics prescribed after a dental procedure - that just seems prudent to me (HA, I hope that's not thinking incorrectly
Aristus
(66,328 posts)101-degrees Fahrenheit or 38-degree Celsius.
Skittles
(153,156 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Along the lines of me saying, "I'm not a liar, but Paul Bunyan and I used to skateboard down Mt Olympus after toga parties..."
Skittles
(153,156 posts)yup, that's about it.....I work with a gal who is very overweight, diabetic, who is helping to raise her niece and is financially helping her mother and brother, who won't get a flu shot because of the bullshit excuses found right here in this thread.....it is ridiculous
Disaffected
(4,554 posts)I was told by someone BTW (with a university degree in one of the bio-sciences) that she would not get a flu vac because "the vaccine has puss in it". She would also not eat anything heated in a microwave oven (because radiation).
WTF??
yellowdogintexas
(22,252 posts)How is it different from normal?
I have a sore arm, slept a lot yesterday and am achy this morning. Pretty much normal for me. I have fibromyalgia and any sort of virus seems to go to war with the fibro.
The last actual virus infection laid me low and I ached so much my hair hurt
TomSlick
(11,098 posts)The flu is especially dangerous for us old folks. We can't afford to lose you.
Aussie105
(5,383 posts)you need a 95% vaccination rate to stop the flu, and other diseases, from spreading to the vulnerable members of society.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)after getting them.
But that was foolish.
Now, this time of year every time I visit the VA they push the vaccine and I get one. Was suggested last week to wait a few more weeks since there is no outbreak and the protection would last further into the season.
brewens
(13,582 posts)was for a blood center, mostly at mobile blood drives. My territory also had two universities. I was in high schools, college dorms and frats, and hospitals almost every day when school started. I usually tried to get one as soon as the pharmacy had them available. I figured I was about as high risk as you could get.
LuckyCharms
(17,425 posts)I have to get off my ass and go get mine. I think my pharmacy still does them.
get the red out
(13,462 posts)I need to get my backside in gear too!
Paladin
(28,254 posts)Left shoulder is a little tender this morning, but that's a small price to pay.
malthaussen
(17,193 posts)Making a difference again.
-- Mal
nolabear
(41,960 posts)Guess Id better go get one myself!
LiberalLoner
(9,761 posts)Are anti-vax are misguided.
benld74
(9,904 posts)customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)Ohiogal
(31,989 posts)Who refuse to get one. Hes 71 and he claims he got sick from the Swine Flu vaccination and wont ever have another flu shot, ever, despite both me and our doctor telling him he needs to get one.
He is very stubborn. I get one every year myself.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)My office provides them free of charge to employees. This year, it's scheduled for the 20th.
iscooterliberally
(2,860 posts)I get achy and very tired. My skin feels like it's crawling too. Kind of like when you take niacin, but a glass of cold water doesn't make it go away. My work around is to get the flu shot late in the day, or on a day off when I don't have to work. I would rather go through that than get the flu, or pass it on to anyone else.
3catwoman3
(23,975 posts)Its part of your immune system gearing up to do battle by making antibodies.
iscooterliberally
(2,860 posts)At least that was what I was told. The man was about the same age as me. I didn't realize how bad the flu really is. I know it kicked my ass a few times when I was a kid, but I got through. I don't have that resilience anymore though. I just picture my antibodies getting ready to defend Helm's Deep now.
wryter2000
(46,039 posts)I was at Kaiser, and there were people in the hallways giving the shots. Love Kaiser.
TomSlick
(11,098 posts)You pull your car into line. At the first stop they give you the forms to fill out (consent, insurance, etc.). At the next stop, you stick your arm out of the car window for the shot. The shots are usually administered by nursing students from the local college - an eager workforce that costs the health department nothing.
If they are really busy, it takes about ten minutes.
Alpeduez21
(1,751 posts)TomSlick
(11,098 posts)It's quite a deal.
If you have insurance, they bill the insurer. If you don't have insurance, the Health Dept covers it.
Laffy Kat
(16,377 posts)Our patients can request one if they're already seeing a provider for another issue, but no walk-ins yet. I wish I had a quarter for everyone asking for one during the last two weeks. Plus, there is a good chance we'll be on strike starting October 14th, who knows for how long.
Dem2theMax
(9,651 posts)Because this happened to me.
Subacromial/subdeltoid bursitis following influenza vaccine administration into the left deltoid muscle. This shoulder injury related to vaccine administration (SIRVA) could have been prevented by the use of a safe, evidence based protocol for the intramuscular injection of the deltoid muscle.
First came the bursitis. Extreme swelling of my arm. Excruciating pain. Could not move my arm, which led to frozen shoulder. While trying to relax the frozen shoulder, my rotator cuff was torn, as well as my bicep.
I would be sound asleep at night, and roll over in the bed, and wake up screaming because the pain was so intense. It would take 20 to 30 minutes to go away.
It took multiple shots to my shoulder, pain medication and physical therapy to be able to regain the use of my arm. It took one year to be able to raise my arm up again.
Nope. I will never chance that happening again.
And for anyone who says that this could not possibly happen, multiple doctors including a surgeon confirmed that the flu shot is what caused all of the above.
Aristus
(66,328 posts)stories, but that's graduate level...
one time while donating platelets, the newbie accidentally dumped saline straight into my arm......it was so painful someone thumped on my back to make me breathe while they squeezed my arm on both ends to disperse the saline
Did I ever donate again? Yes, I have donated 55 gallons of platelets.
Dem2theMax
(9,651 posts)to graduate level!
I'm not kidding, I was in the most excruciating pain I have ever experienced in my life. Sometimes I would forget about my left arm, and I would do something physical, thinking it would be okay. But my left arm would take a jolt, and the pain was so bad it would drop me to my knees, where I would scream and cry for about 30 minutes until the pain subsided.
I drove one handed for about eight months. I could not lift my left arm to the point where I could touch the bottom of the steering wheel. My hand had to rest on my lap at all times. It would not go any higher. All for a flu shot.
demigoddess
(6,640 posts)how painful that is. I will be careful where I let them stick me!!
yellowdogintexas
(22,252 posts)Or are those only for children?
Dem2theMax
(9,651 posts)You would think they would make some exceptions. I would be one of them!
mokawanis
(4,440 posts)If they cost a lot I won't get one. My insurance, through ACA, has a high deductible before it covers anything. It's great insurance, as long as I don't actually use it.
Aristus
(66,328 posts)Many pharmacies, as well.
mokawanis
(4,440 posts)I'll look into it and try to get one this year.
LeftInTX
(25,288 posts)They were slow and the tech asked me if I wanted a flu shot. I asked her how much and she said it was free. So I got a flu shot!
imavoter
(646 posts)I get it for my husband...
who has no business getting the flu...
and won't get a shot.
If he gets it, it won't be from me.
Gothmog
(145,168 posts)Fyrefox
(300 posts)I've gotten annual flu shots for decades, with a sore arm the most experienced side effect. It's curious, but getting the vaccination at a pharmacy has always been cheaper than getting one at a doctor's office, where charges were $40+ for the vaccine, plus an additional $20 or so for a moment of professional time...
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)LeftInTX
(25,288 posts)And some anti-vaxers showed up....
Aristus
(66,328 posts)I hope someone shouted at them: "Get a job!"
rurallib
(62,411 posts)"We're out" she tells me.
Aristus
(66,328 posts)People are ignoring the dipshit anti-vaxxers and going in to get their immunizations. The clinics are running out.
But the pharmacies and departments of health should have plenty. Try one of them.
ailsagirl
(22,896 posts)That is, consecutively?
Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)See if, because of my MS, I need to worry about issues with the vaccine and if I have other issues to watch out for if I do get the flu.
I really do hate my brand new world.
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,463 posts)Took the papers required home to fill them out. Didn't want to fill them out at the crowded pharmacy.