About the aliens visiting the earth....Yes, they have been here, but..........

[Stuart G]

Yes, I think that they have been here..Why? Of the millions and millions of stars that there are, and tens of thousands have planets, I suppose. And, if a few of those planets have evolved farther than we have...say five hundred years ahead of us, perhaps they are able to exceed the speed of light and go galloping around the galaxy..(perhaps)

...Now if those faster than speed of lighters, have taken a look at us, just suppose they did, now what would they say?
... They might say...1. "Too primitive to deal with."
........2.. "Too war like to deal with."
........3. " Stay away from these beings, they look dangerous."
........4. "What good is it communicating with them?"


What do you think the reasons that they have not communicated with us? Got any ideas? Share them please..

Maybe you think they haven't been here? I think they have, but if you think they haven't please express that too.

[Mike Nelson]

1. Definitely...

#1. If they can get here, they are much more advanced. Unless they want to eat us or take other resources, they would not disturb the natural evolution - an advanced space-exploring group would think of us as something to be observed and studied. Any manipulation would be intentionally undetectable.

[Stuart G]

4. Yes, I agree with you completely...And I have heard that often about space exploring people.

.........I even heard that on "Star Trek" and especially on "Star Trek the Next Generation" more than once. On the "Next Generation" I think that there were several entire shows on that theme. (could be wrong on that, haven't watched the show in many years, but I got all the shows on "tape" (never look at them however)

[Newest Reality]

12. Yes,

The Prime Directive is not just a cool, sci-fi show idea, it is an intelligent choice based on real world history.

You can see the impact that an "advanced" culture has when it impinges on others, especially haphazardly. Consider what has happened to the indigenous American Indian tribes in the wake of the Western invasion as only one example.

The tendency is for even basic exposure to have a tremendous impact that can rapidly change or even decimate aboriginal culture, religion, etc., and not for the better either.

In that case, the Prime Directive is a reasonable speculation as to a more advanced, alien species keeping a distance and observing us or waiting until we reach a critical threshold that they deem acceptable for contact. It also could indicate some sort of concern, empathy or compassion for developing species in the Universe.

One wonders that, other than in our fiction, if we would be doing something similar at this point in our evolution.

[genxlib]

16. I hate to be the cynic

But I don't see what you see.

Your thoughts on the prime directive are accurate regarding the effect an advanced culture has on a primitive one.

I just don't see any evidence that such a concern would drive a society. Every lesson in our own human history boils down to either exploiting or supplanting cultures when they are found.

I don't see any reason to believe that an intelligence greater than our own would be so magnanimous. I think it is more likely that they have not found us or simply don't care enough about us to want what we have.

[Newest Reality]

20. That's a good point.

I am glad you brought that up.

Of course you don't see any reason for that. We are bound by our biases, cultures, conditioning and even the scope and context of the language we use. I think it is very difficult, in that case, to imagine what any kind of "advanced" level of thought, thinking, being or communication might actually be. I don't think a dog or porpoise would get Rush Limbaugh at all.

We have a system that is rather circular and self-replicating. There are junctures where a certain kind of emergence occurs and they seem to be universally and implicitly evolutionary in some way. Generally, new innovations or ways of thinking are rather slow and sporadic, but there are periods of leaps and bounds and we have and are experiencing one, IMHO.

My speculation is that there is something essential about reality that we are currently missing in our materialistic, capitalistic, nihilistic hedonism at this stage. That is that things are far more interdependent than we generally are aware of and we do not pay due heed to it. There have been ancient views that gave more respect and credence to a more expansive and all-inclusive framework for existence. When a culture recognizes the intrinsic, essential and vital fact that everything is mutually interdependent, (which is really rather inconvenient considering our lifestyles, consumerism, and a list of other reasons) that can shift the paradigm significantly and then the "hard problem" of consciousness itself becomes more relevant as well.

Those things considered, while we collectively experience the results of the ignorance of the above, (pollution, climate change, extinction) we can also see how our current ignorance could cause us to project a rather negative light on advanced species and cast them as ambivalent, apathetic or even malevolent when they could very well be far more compassionate, attuned, connected and aware than we can even imagine from our rather limited and tightly focused point-of-view.

To me the Universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine.

[genxlib]

21. I don't disagree with anything you said

I actually see the Universe much like you do.

The problem I see is that it only works if that mindset is pervasive throughout a culture to the point that it excludes any significant bad behavior. We could have 7 billion people singing kum-by-yah and it would still only take a few dozen people with torches and earth moving equipment to wipe out the last of the rain forest indigenous cultures.

I think there is always hope that the future of evolution is towards more enlightenment. But evolution is built on competition. It is hard for me to see the evolutionary nudge that trends towards that future. If anything, an enlightened culture is often vulnerable to one that is more driven by hate, greed, expansion, etc.

Yeah, I am cynical so don't take me too seriously.

[Newest Reality]

25. Hey...

Reasonable, (which you are obviously) cynicism is useful. It motivates you to present the counterpoints that your observations reveal.

You make a good argument about the barriers we have to advancement as a species and that's a pivotal point for us, though time seems to also be running out and the perfect storms are gathering to and fro.

Yes, competition has been a major force in selection by evolutionary standards. I would point out that there has been a popular misinterpretation of Darwin's conjectures about the process though. We often hear the phrase, "survival of the fittest" which then lends itself to a rather brutal and base interpretation that is referred to as social Darwinism. However, I think the more correct and precise meaning of his work was survival of the most adaptable and that, therefore, the flexibility of a species in relation to its given environment is the most prominent factor for contextual survival and continuity. In that case, cooperation can be seen to yield valid, evolutionary results in contrast to competition and it is possible that reason, logic and knowledge can help us to shift the imbalance of the two and even transform the nature of competition itself, rather than deprecating it or eliminating it.

I know that is far too optimist and idealistic than necessary here, but there are some indicators that contradict the "if it bleeds it leads" perspective that we derive from mass media, movies, etc., which both reflect and effect each other in a circular fashion. I would cite, as some evidence of a more positive view of our recent phases in the evolution of our behavior, a rather detailed and well-referenced book entitled, The Better Angels of Our Nature, which makes the case as to just how much improvement we have realized in regards to your concerns. In other words, we are, generally and by comparison, more peaceful, kind, generous, cooperative, etc., etc. than we realize when we are seeing through the a cursory lens of popular information and views. Read it or peruse it if you get a chance. It is an eyeopener and it will certainly provide a challenge to conventional thought about our progress, (which may be the actual barrier to our progress in itself). A lot pivots on PERCEPTIONS with humans.

The negative sells. It is compelling. It can be exaggerated and drawn out. The sensational and frightening bypasses the rational, logical thinking and stimulates the limbic brain, (the lizard) into reactions rather than responses and that all, to me, plays into the problem of capitalism and consumerism rather than representing an accurate and honest view of where we are in the evolutionary sense as a species. I would not trust sources with a vested interest in distraction, titillation, reactions and manipulation for the sake of profit. They are bound to have a negative bias.

Woah. That's Excessive Writing Syndrome, I guess

I like this one: The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist waits for it to change. The realist adjusts the sails.

[Eyeball_Kid]

2. Please read two books authored by Dr. John E. Mack.

Mack is a deceased psychotherapist and doctor who interviewed dozens of "experiencers" who have, and likely still are, being abducted by alien beings. These folks talk extensively about their contacts with alien beings, and it's all reported in Mack's clinical, professional format of writing. There's no hyperbole, no "speculation." His first book (Abductions) is strictly about the abductions: the frightening, the moving, and the re-assuring. His second book (Passport to the Cosmos) explores further the abduction experiences, but moves into a more global and, dare I say, more spiritual discussion of the nature of the contacts and how they have life-changing effects on the abductees.

[RKP5637]

6. K&R!!! n/t

[RKP5637]

3. What do you think the reasons that they have not communicated with us?

They detected tRump is here!

[Stuart G]

7. Well..............that is as good a reason as any..........

[TreasonousBastard]

5. They are still here, studying their handwork...

Eons ago they instilled a "competition" gene into our earliest life forms. It meant everything alive would be pressured to eat or be eaten. There could be no growth without destruction.

Now that we appear be their highest creation so far, they periodically insert new ideas and genetic components into our makeup to see how we handle it.

The question is-- will they end the experiment or let it play out?

[DBoon]

8. ... 5. Taste terrible. Not good to eat.

A being traveling from another planet would look at us like livestock, not as a fellow intelligent being

[Midnight Writer]

9. I like the South Park premise that they see us as an entertaining reality TV show.

But I doubt the entity experiences are extra terrestrial. I suspect there is something else at play here. Something we have yet to figure out. And as long as we laugh at the phenomena rather than study it, we won't ever figure it out.

[Floyd R. Turbo]

10. I became interested in the subject after reading Interrupted Journey in the mid sixties.

I believe they have been here, are here, and will stay here until we totally screw up or get out act together enough for the to make their presence known.

[Stuart G]

11. ...Sometimes, I have that opinion. They are here watching...maybe ??

[Floyd R. Turbo]

14. For years I had night terrors during which I sensed the presence of other beings in my room. They

always occurred at 2:22 am. and lasted for several minutes. Following a horrific auto accident in the seventies the terrors stopped completely.

The entities I perceived were like those frequently described by individuals who have claimed to have been the victims of alien abductions.

[Atticus]

13. I don't know about the rest of the globe, but the reason they have no interest in

speaking to Americans is that they have witnessed the last election and the past three years. Given our apparent determination to commit cultural suicide, they have opted to watch the primitive organisms who style themselves "Americans" perish by their own hands.

[getagrip_already]

15. Well, do you talk to the vegetables on your plate?

Plants are for growing. Not talking to.

[BuffaloJackalope]

17. Earth is the Andaman Island of the galaxy

[First Speaker]

18. The only answer is: who knows?

...if the UFO phenomenon is "real"--which I consider likely--and the answer is literal aliens--which I consider unlikely--then they are *alien*. We don't know what they think, how they think, how they would react. There is zero empirical evidence, and I suspect this state of affairs is going to continue for some time. There is some basic part of the equation about the whole subject of "alien life" that we don't comprehend yet...

[genxlib]

19. What you are describing is the Fermi Paradox

This is an absolute fascinating and simple read that addresses exactly your question

https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html

Seriously, you must take a look. Your example of 500 years is not expansive enough. They consider a scenario where a species could be billions of years ahead of us.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

22. Several points.

I have a son getting his PhD in astronomy, and he's doing exo-planet research. It's not merely a small percentage which have planets, it seems to be the vast majority. Essentially every single star we look at has planets.

We have not yet found a true Earth-like planet, although I'm sure that's a matter of time. Right now we can't quite get a look at the atmospheres, but in time we will.

Anything more than about two and half times the size of the earth is an ice giant or gas giant. That has to do with the physics of planetary formation.

The Universe is around 13 billion years old, give or take. Our own planet is about four and a half billion years old, and it took about a billion years for the first life to appear. Multi-cellular life is less than a billion years old. I'll skip most of the rest, but will go straight to the fact that homo sapiens evolved around 200,000 years ago, fully modern humans from 40 to 60 thousand years ago, and civilization as we know it is about 6,000 years old.

Who knows how long we will last? The pessimists out there think that most technological civilizations will probably destroy themselves before they make it outside of their own solar systems. I simply don't think we have enough evidence to come to any conclusions.

Species have a finite life span. And before you start pointing out that jelly fish have been around a hundred million years, or name some other species that's been around a very long time, those are true anomalies. Species evolve, change, die out. A million years is a good run for most of them.

Which means, the possibility of two intelligent, space-faring species to be around at the same time and to find each other, is vanishingly small.

And, for what it's worth, the Universe is actually young enough that current thinking is that we may well be the first or one of the very first species in our galaxy to evolve intelligence and technology.

Interstellar distances are vaster than most people realize. Here's the example I like to give: our galaxy, Milky Way, which has perhaps 300 billion stars, and Andromeda, which has about a trillion stars, are on a collision course. I know, brace yourself. It'll happen in about 4 or 5 billion years. A while back I asked My Son the Astronomer, when the two galaxies collide, how many stars will actually crash into each other? He replied, "Well, we're not completely sure, but right now the best guess is no more than ten." Think about it. Ten stars out of a combined 1.3 trillion. Of course, he hastened to add, a lot more stars will be gravitationally impacted, but that's not the same.

Most reputable astronomers and physicists are quite certain that FTL travel will never be possible. I know people will airily dismiss that and say we can't begin to know what kind of advances a species even thousands of years ahead of us will achieve. And while in the abstract that's true, I'll repeat myself: reputable astronomers and physicists are quite certain FTL travel will never be possible. There is the possibility that wormholes will turn out to be a reliable way to travel vast differences, but I wouldn't count on it.

Not to mention, long term space travel even within our own solar system may turn out to be more dangerous than we currently understand, given the exposure to radiation involved in very long journeys. Although that may well be solvable. Some kind of relatively thin and lightweight material that effectively blocks radiation probably has a good chance of being invented.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to be able to travel to distant stars and planets myself. I'm a science fiction fan and love reading such novels. Heck, read the works of Jack McDevitt. He has two different and wonderful series both of which depend on FTL ships for things to happen. But I do get frustrated when people just assume that there really are species out there who've mastered the unmasterable.

[progressoid]

26. +1

You saved me a lot of typing!

[jberryhill]

27. yup

The large numbers that people throw around to suggest it is likely, are precisely what mitigate against it being likely.

[Stuart G]

29. I assume FTL...means beyond the speed of light, but what does FTL stand for?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

32. It means Faster Than Light. And I'm sorry, I should know better

than to post an abbreviation without explaining it the first time.

In science fiction, there are often references to FTL drives, meaning engines (or drives) that allow a ship to travel faster than the speed of light.

In one of the Jack McDevitt series (I'm sorry, I forget which one) originally the FTL drive, while better than travelling at even 99% c (and here c means the speed of light, as in E = mc2, Einstein's famous equation) still the trips often take a month or more to get from one place to another. Then McDevitt invented a better FTL drive, and so ships weren't stuck in hyperspace (I think that's what he calls it) for more than a few days at a time. What's nice about science fiction is that you can happily make up pretty much whatever you want to.

As for E = mc2, that rather famously says energy and matter are two different versions of the same thing. The Wikipedia article on special relativity may be helpful here.

As you might guess from the several references to My Son the Astronomer, I rely on that son for lots and lots of stuff. I joke that I could just give out his phone number, you could text him, claiming to be a friend of his mother's and query, "Is Ask the Astronomer on Duty?" I often send him such a text, and if the astronomer is available, he'll call me back. In reality, I wouldn't abuse his good nature by randomly giving out his phone number, but I learn new things from him all the time.

[colsohlibgal]

23. They Are Here

One of our Astronauts was caught clearly saying “We Still Have The Alien Spacecraft Under Observation”. I have heard that, it’s clear as day.

As to why they haven’t announced themselves who knows?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

24. Maybe they are unmanned, or whatever

the correct alien equivalent would be.

[Enoki33]

28. Think aliens have been here and might well have left behind

memorials in stone and worldwide folklore. Scientifically, morally and spiritually they are likely millions of years ahead of us, not five hundred. I also believe that the development of the human DNA could not have happened in a mere six hundred million years, and that the eventual truth will be found when our so called junk DNA is decoded. Maybe we will get confirmation that we are truly of the stars. Hope so anyway.

[eclecticdyslexic]

30. Such advanced beings would be so amazed by Earth's amazing biodiversity that they'd

...no doubt be willing to break any prime directive regarding contact and remove the singular threat to that biodiversity: Us.

[Bayard]

31. Despite the charm of, "Men in Black",

I think any beings that had the intelligence to come up with space travel would see us as pond scum. Just not worth the trouble to get involved with a dying planet.

[Vogon_Glory]

35. This planet's ecology is sick, but like the Earth after the end of the Permian Period

And after the Cretaceous Period, it will heal.

That being said, I still don’t like rats, jellyfish, grackles, and cockroaches.

[Kaleva]

33. As stated by PoindexterOglethorpe in post #22, we may be the first in the galaxy.

It's possible that no other life form anywhere else in the galaxy has advanced as far as we humans. Crocodiles and turtles have been around for millions of years but they haven't evolved much during all this time.

[Vogon_Glory]

34. I suspect that if space aliens were here

We humans would have had hell to pay for how we treated cetaceans and the great apes, even if the aliens were flesh-eaters.

[hunter]

36. Why would they talk to us? Their cell phones are smarter than humans.

An accurate model of human society is a child's science fair project, a really boring one.

[panader0]

37. Are lizard people aliens? Asking for a friend.