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The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 11:35 PM Apr 2020

Some Quite Shiny Aeroplanes....

These are from kits, and a later period than my usual. They are all (save one) machines that were not painted, but left with the metal bare. They are all in 1/72 scale (six feet to the inch) and to replicate their bare metal finish, are covered in aluminum foil, affixed by a glue similar to that used for setting gold leaf.







This is a Curtiss AT-9 advanced trainer at Williams Field, Arizona, in the summer of 1942. The machine was used to train aspiring pilots to fly 'hot' twin-engined aircraft, particularly, at Williams, the P-38 Lightning. This AT-9 crashed owing to engine failure on May 27, 1943. It's pilot, one John M. Proos, took successfully to his parachute and survived.








This a Seversky P-35, with the 94th Pursuit Squadron at Selfridge Field outside Detroit in 1938. This was the first modern all-metal single seat pursuit purchased by the Army Air Corps.






This is a Curtiss YP-37 of the 8th Pursuit Group Headquarters Flight at Langley Field in Virginia, early in 1940. The machine was more a test-bed for fitting a General Electric turbo-supercharger to an Allison motor than a serious attempt at producing a fighting machine. The combination proved unworkable in the early form attempted.






This is a Dewoitine D.501 of the 1st Eskadrile of the Lithuanian Military Aviation, early in 1939. A dozen of these French machines, acquired in 1937, comprised half the fighter strength of Lithuania's military when Hitler annexed Memel, and Stalin invaded the country.






This is a Navy Fighter Type S A8V1 of the 12th Kokutai, Imperial Japanese Navy, at Nanking in 1939. It is a two-seat export version of the Seversky P-35, twenty of which were sold clandestinely to Japan, and served as fast reconnaissance machines over China. This was the sole example of U.S. equipment ever purchased by Japan and used on combat operations.








This is a B-17D of the 50th Reconnaissance Squadron at Hickam Field, Hawaii, early in the summer of 1941. As was most of the Army Air Corps at Pearl Harbor, aircraft of this unit were caught on the ground and demolished on December 7, 1941.


This last features some paint over the foil surface, but bare metal is still a good portion of its appearance.







This is a Type 1 Army Fighter, or Ki-43, dubbed 'Peregrine Falcon' in Japan, and known to U.S. Forces as 'Oscar'. It was flown by Sgt. Maj. Kyushiro Ohtake of the 25th Sentai, who was the sole member of his unit to survive WWII, though he died in 1951 of the lingering effects of wounds received over Seoul two days before Japan surrender. The Japanese Army Air Force camouflaged machines in the field by daubing green paint in various patterns on the unpainted machines sent out to front-line units.

Hope you have enjoyed the display!

78 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Some Quite Shiny Aeroplanes.... (Original Post) The Magistrate Apr 2020 OP
Love the D-Model B-17. Historic NY Apr 2020 #1
I Am Fond Of The Early Versions As Well, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #4
I saw The Swoose when it was still at the Smithsonian restoration facility. SeattleVet Apr 2020 #59
Quite A Bit Of History Behind That Machine, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #67
The Curtiss YP 37 is a beautiful plane. AJT Apr 2020 #2
It Is A Striking Thing, Ma'am The Magistrate Apr 2020 #6
Form over function. AJT Apr 2020 #28
An Interesting Way To Put It, Ma'am The Magistrate Apr 2020 #29
What branch of the service are you, or we're you in? AJT Apr 2020 #32
None, Ma'am The Magistrate Apr 2020 #33
You've done a service of your own with these stunning models. AJT Apr 2020 #40
Those Were Damn Dangerous, Ma'am The Magistrate Apr 2020 #42
What line of work are you in? AJT Apr 2020 #43
Long Retired, Ma'am The Magistrate Apr 2020 #44
You're breadth of knowledge and your ability to use logical thinking are amazing. AJT Apr 2020 #50
Exquisite! ZZenith Apr 2020 #3
Glad You Enjoyed Them, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #8
Nothing like a poor kit to help you appreciate the good ones! ZZenith Apr 2020 #9
That Sounds Like A Fascinating Trip, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #13
Reynolds Wrap to the Rescue! ZZenith Apr 2020 #16
The Cheaper And Thinner The Foil The Better, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #20
The Esoteric Escadrille! ZZenith Apr 2020 #27
Sgt. Vaurin, Sir, Was Awarded The 'Medal Militaire' For 'Many Hazardous Flights' The Magistrate Apr 2020 #41
Just beautiful! DonaldsRump Apr 2020 #5
Thank You, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #10
You, Sir, are the master DonaldsRump Apr 2020 #14
Could Be, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #17
Very impressive, Sir! 2naSalit Apr 2020 #21
Thank You, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #26
It looks very well assembled and carefully fitted. 2naSalit Apr 2020 #39
The First Mention Of Foiling I Can Recall, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #48
Hey there - good job! Backseat Driver Apr 2020 #7
Thank You, Ma'am The Magistrate Apr 2020 #12
I've seen the AT-9 at the USAF museum Major Nikon Apr 2020 #11
I Came Across A Lot Of Pictures Of That One Researching This, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #15
Accident rates are always high for training aircraft Major Nikon Apr 2020 #36
These are absolutely awesome. Very, very well done. PatrickforO Apr 2020 #18
Glad You Enjoyed Them, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #22
Yes, a lot of them are Airfix, but some are the newer PatrickforO Apr 2020 #38
I Know Exactly What You Mean, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #45
Well, it does make the paint stay on better, but PatrickforO Apr 2020 #46
Beautiful work! calimary Apr 2020 #19
Glad You Like Them, Ma'am The Magistrate Apr 2020 #23
I haven't modeled since I got a computer. JohnnyRingo Apr 2020 #24
I Have Enjoyed Doing Precise Little Things With My Hands, Sir, Most Of My Life The Magistrate Apr 2020 #25
Not familiar with the MF JohnnyRingo Apr 2020 #34
It Was Quite The Thing In Its Day, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #37
After the Luftwaffe lost control of the skies later in WWII, German soldiers used to tell Aristus Apr 2020 #30
Not Bad For Gallows Humor, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #49
Don't forget, a lot of the Japanese warplanes were powered by engines made in the US ... marble falls Apr 2020 #31
Before The War, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #52
Like... WOW! Amazing work. nt El Mimbreno Apr 2020 #35
Thank You, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #51
Beautiful! Thanks for sharing! CaptainTruth Apr 2020 #47
Glad You Enjoyed Them, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #54
Splendid work! ironflange Apr 2020 #53
Thank You, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #58
I love them all but the B-17D is my favorite. ❤ nt littlemissmartypants Apr 2020 #55
Glad You Like It Ma'am The Magistrate Apr 2020 #60
Very cool! Thanks so much for sharing. ❤ nt littlemissmartypants Apr 2020 #63
Thanks! OriginalGeek Apr 2020 #56
Glad It Sparked A Good Memory, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #61
Here's a really cool full-sized model. It even flies DFW Apr 2020 #57
Those Things Seem To Fly Straight Into The Ground, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #69
Granted, I did not elaborate on which direction they tended to fly DFW Apr 2020 #70
Those are beautiful! csziggy Apr 2020 #62
Thank You, Ma'am The Magistrate Apr 2020 #65
Very impressive! The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2020 #64
Thank You, Ma'am The Magistrate Apr 2020 #66
So nice to see your work again! bluedigger Apr 2020 #68
Glad You Like Them, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #71
You are far past my mediocre skills. bluedigger Apr 2020 #73
They Are Wonderful, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #74
Very much, thanks. Harker Apr 2020 #72
Good Observations, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #75
Thanks for the kind words Harker Apr 2020 #76
The 'Gentleman's Scale' Has Its Advantages, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2020 #77
I may be a few unputtied gaps away Harker Apr 2020 #78

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
4. I Am Fond Of The Early Versions As Well, Sir
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 11:58 PM
Apr 2020

There is something quite Art Deco about them, particularly the earliest, where there a protruding 'blisters' over the tear-drop shaped opening in the fuselage sides. These were later deemed unnecessary for the purpose, but no change was made in the shape of the opening for the gun positions.

SeattleVet

(5,477 posts)
59. I saw The Swoose when it was still at the Smithsonian restoration facility.
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 06:42 PM
Apr 2020

I have photos of it around here, somewhere.

Captain Frank Kurz named his daughter after his plane...the actress Swoosie Kurz.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
67. Quite A Bit Of History Behind That Machine, Sir
Thu Apr 16, 2020, 02:38 AM
Apr 2020

The airframe incorporated parts of three, and possibly four different aircraft when it was retired....

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
6. It Is A Striking Thing, Ma'am
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 12:03 AM
Apr 2020

Though useless as a service machine (among other problems poor visibility forward and down led to many being quickly wrecked in landing or taxi-ing accidents), its appearance did capture the imagination of the popular aviation press of the day. It inspired depiction of some flying equipment in the popular comic Blackhawk, and I believed has served as prototype for some early incarnations of the Bat Man's Bat Plane.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
29. An Interesting Way To Put It, Ma'am
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 09:16 AM
Apr 2020

I doubt the designers sought striking visual impact, though they certainly did achieve it. All they wanted was the most streamlining they could achieve, and so they decided to bury the radiator in the fuselage behind the motor, conducting air to it through scoops and ducts, rather than have bluntly exposed under the nose as was the usual practice. That put the radiator where the pilot usually sat, so the cockpit had to be moved back closer to the tail.

AJT

(5,240 posts)
40. You've done a service of your own with these stunning models.
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 11:34 AM
Apr 2020

My father was a navy pilot. He is 90 this year. He flew the first jets used on aircraft carriers.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
44. Long Retired, Ma'am
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 12:06 PM
Apr 2020

Anything from a jeweler to a warehouseman to a 'gentleman adventurer' in my youth. I always read a great deal, and it has stood me in good stead.

ZZenith

(4,119 posts)
3. Exquisite!
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 11:52 PM
Apr 2020

This represents so many hours of patience and dogged determination!

Thanks for letting us see them.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
8. Glad You Enjoyed Them, Sir
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 12:11 AM
Apr 2020

Speaking of 'dogged determination', the one which required the most of that was the YP-37. It is built from a kit in which the basic pieces were pot-cast resin, not injection moulded plastic, and while some such kits are (I am told by other modelers) quite nice, this thing was the most appalling mess I have ever tackled. Poor fit, wrong shape, the list could go on and on, but would swiftly require far too much information and explanation. Suffice it to say what you see here is not what someone would get who simply assembled what the kit provided....

ZZenith

(4,119 posts)
9. Nothing like a poor kit to help you appreciate the good ones!
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 12:25 AM
Apr 2020

I completely understand why you went the foil route. No paint could ever result in this luminescence.

As a child I once got to tour the boneyard at Davis-Monthan and I got to see “real live” examples of the B-17 model I was working on at the time, most of them half-cannibalized with their guts spilling out into the desert. Frightening and fascinating in equal measure.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
13. That Sounds Like A Fascinating Trip, Sir
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 12:53 AM
Apr 2020

I am of the school which maintains nothing looks quite so much like metal as metal. I have seen some excellent work done with the 'metallizer' sprays, but they are not for me. People complain of how thoroughly the surface must be prepared for foil, but my experience with sprayed silver paint makes me feel the surface preparation required for success with the metalizers is of a much higher standard than is needed for foil. And there are tricks, like sanding the foil surface smooth in parts and putting a second piece over that, which let you get away with some things the paint could never allow. I use ordinary kitchen foil, boiled with eggshells to take down the shine and give things a bit of age for the eye. I will happily remove pieces if I have to and smooth things out for another try, it's cheap and cheerful and plentiful, unlike the commercial foils sold for modelers.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
20. The Cheaper And Thinner The Foil The Better, Sir
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 01:56 AM
Apr 2020

The lowest grade 'dollar store' stuff is best for the purpose, especially when there are curves and fairings to be foiled over.

While it is a striking beast, a Lightning is not a likely project for me. I have a Twin Mustang on the shelf, and may one day get to that.

My principle interest is older machines....





This is a Breguet U1 'afinne' of Escadrille BR17 in Alsace in September 1914, flown by Sgt. France Vaurin. Breguet's 'single spar' biplanes were about the oddest things that flew even in the pioneer days. This is scratch-built, no one would ever dream of trying to market a kit of this thing....

ZZenith

(4,119 posts)
27. The Esoteric Escadrille!
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 03:32 AM
Apr 2020

You would never see me set foot inside a single-spar biplane! “Sturdy” is not the first word that comes to mind - one had to be a brave loon to entrust their life to such a contraption.

A twin Mustang would be even cooler than a Lightning! But I can see that the earlier era would hold more fascination for a detail man like yourself - before all the sleek aerodynamics and flush rivets took over.

So are those radiators on either side of the front fuselage in the BR17 or are those the box lunches for the in-flight meal?

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
41. Sgt. Vaurin, Sir, Was Awarded The 'Medal Militaire' For 'Many Hazardous Flights'
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 11:39 AM
Apr 2020

I share your view just going up in one of these was a hazardous flight. I do not recall the figure off-hand, but it took an ungodly portion of the machine's flying time to climb high enough a good rifleman would probably miss, and the wings did flex visibly in flight, to a mild sort of crescent curve. It needed something close a golf course green to land safely as well. They were dropped from service before long. The type had placed well enough in a pre-war competitive trail to get a contract, but only because a high-power racing motor was used on the prototype, which was not employed on the production examples. Those are radiators for a Canton-Unne water-cooled radial, whose cylinder heads just poke out behind the propeller.

DonaldsRump

(7,715 posts)
5. Just beautiful!
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 11:59 PM
Apr 2020

Last edited Wed Apr 15, 2020, 12:47 AM - Edit history (1)

I used to do these when I was a kid. None of them looked as wonderful as your models do. The closest I came was a B-52 Revell (I think) model that wasn't TOO bad, but not great either.

I wasn't very good with the plastic cement, and made all sorts of splotches.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
10. Thank You, Sir
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 12:32 AM
Apr 2020

I wasn't particularly good as a kid either, and put many tube-glue fingerprint on my efforts. I was just prolific at it, and developed a taste for knowing something beyond the potted histories heading the instruction sheets.

I took it up again some years ago as an adult, and after have been a jeweler as a younger man. Habits of craft and handling tools transfer from one thing to another, and like riding a bicycle, do not really go away.

A B-52 is far too modern for my taste now, but I expect I built the same Revell kit you mention as a lad. Even then, though, the ones I liked best were the Aurora 'quarter-scale' WWI biplane kits. But I would build damn near anything, except automobiles.

DonaldsRump

(7,715 posts)
14. You, Sir, are the master
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 01:00 AM
Apr 2020

Even today, I couldn't come close to what you've done.

Indeed, rather than Rydell, it's Revell as you point out. That being said, after Googling a bit, I think it was actually a Monogram B-52 (circa 1979) that I put together as a kid.



As mentioned, I was horrible with the plastic cement, and painting was even worse. The best I ever did was a REVELL P-52 Mustang that I painted black before putting on the decals. Didn't look half-bad, but probably not to US military standards either!

I also did a Boeing 747 in green, probably to emulate Calder's Flying Colors for Braniff!

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
17. Could Be, Sir
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 01:13 AM
Apr 2020

Revell and Monogram merged, but I am not sure when, and kits of both were put under one another's labels when they did. All that survives nowadays, to the best of my knowledge, is a German branch of Revell.

A black Mustang would be striking. I have never built one, but have seen some in Nationalist Chinese markings which intrigue me. As a law-abiding modeler, I have done a sharkmouth P-40, though....



This is a P-40N of the 73 Fighter Squadron at Kwailin in China, in 1944. The Type 1 Army Fighter above was built as a sort of companion to this, as the units often encountered one another.

2naSalit

(86,502 posts)
21. Very impressive, Sir!
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 01:56 AM
Apr 2020

Back in my much younger days I assembled the Revell version of that plane. My brother was very interested in building model airplanes back then, encouraged by my dad who was a fly guy in the Navy.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
26. Thank You, Sir
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 03:05 AM
Apr 2020

This is a kit from Academy, a Korean company. It goes together very well, and if you ever want to take a grown-up run at one, would be a good choice for a starter. I am fond of this one because it was the first one I feel I got the panel lines right on --- not too stark, but there to be seen.

2naSalit

(86,502 posts)
39. It looks very well assembled and carefully fitted.
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 11:32 AM
Apr 2020

I must say that I am very impressed with the foil coating on the the other models above too. Something we never thought of as kids. We both moved on to other hobby interests after a few years and a few relocations... when in a military family, downsizing for mobility becomes a frequent ritual and complex hobbies fall by the wayside, sadly.

I have taken up numerous other hobbies over the years and retain the "works" for them in convenient storage containers for easy access. Don't know that I would take up model making again but I do admire the artistry of it and those who embrace it.

Your work is admirable, do carry on, Sir.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
48. The First Mention Of Foiling I Can Recall, Sir
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 12:35 PM
Apr 2020

Was back in the late sixties, in a magazine, Scale Modeller I believe was the name. It was carried at the hobby shop I worked in after school. In those days what people used to affix it was wood varnish, what had to be caught at just the right moment of stickiness, when it was almost but not quite dry. Well beyond anything I thought myself capable of then.

The only problem one might encounter with the Academy kit is that the decals are thick and resist lying tight to the surface. Diluted white glue can fix this, as can a sort of floor polish, sold nowadays under the name 'Pledge with Future shine' (Future being the original name). The stuff sucks things down tight as it dries, as it is self-levelling.

Backseat Driver

(4,385 posts)
7. Hey there - good job!
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 12:04 AM
Apr 2020

DH does model cars and, and in the past, military miniatures which are all packed away with a collection of Britains.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
12. Thank You, Ma'am
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 12:45 AM
Apr 2020

Model autos never appealed to me, but I have seen some very work done with them, and when well finished they can be spectacular.

That collection of Britains is quite a thing to have. Those were the pre-eminent 'toy soldiers', and done to a very high standard.

I had my first after school job at a large hobby shop, which carried a large stock of lead figurines in 54mm, including the Stadden line. For a while those quite eclipsed aircraft for me. I still do one or two on occasion.



This is an English subaltern of the Second Afghan War, a 54mm figure sold by Art Girona as being one of the 66th Foot at Maiwand, where the regiment was cut to pieces in one of the classic defeats England took at times on the Northwest Frontier. It was the closest I could come nowadays to matching an old figure I remembered having done when young, that on a whim I went hunting one night through the inter-tubes to see if I could track one down.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
11. I've seen the AT-9 at the USAF museum
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 12:34 AM
Apr 2020

I may even have a picture of it somewhere. It would have been a fun aircraft to fly back in the day.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
15. I Came Across A Lot Of Pictures Of That One Researching This, Sir
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 01:03 AM
Apr 2020

I decided on this particular airframe largely for convenience, because I found an in-flight photograph of it, which showed no glare panels, and no color on the cowling fronts. Much easier, and no need to try and guess colors from grey-tones in old black and white shots. Further inquiry led to quite a tale concerning the facility in Arizona, and the pilot flying it when it crashed.

Opinions of how fun it was to fly varied. People swore by it or swore at it, but no one was neutral. It was designed deliberately to be tricky to fly, to mimic the handling characteristics of faster and larger aircraft. It struck some as a sort of flying hot rod, but it had problems, among which were an inability to remain aloft on one engine, and great difficulty opening the doors against the slipstream a need. Accident rates were high.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
36. Accident rates are always high for training aircraft
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 11:15 AM
Apr 2020

Learning to fly is not without peril. As a training twin aircraft they would be intentionally feathering one engine and taking the aircraft to the brink of uncontrollably. If done correctly with a competent instructor this is no big deal, but many of the WWII instructors had very little time in the aircraft themselves.

On a hot day and especially if at higher altitudes and heavily loaded, most light twins lack the power required to keep them aloft. Even modern ones have this problem. That's why pilots say the 2nd engine gets you all the way to the scene of the crash.

The AT9 was intentionally designed for instability just as aircraft like the P-38 were. This makes them more responsive and more fun to fly, but less so on a cross country flight with no autopilot or flying an instrument approach.

PatrickforO

(14,566 posts)
18. These are absolutely awesome. Very, very well done.
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 01:24 AM
Apr 2020

What a blast from the past - when young I built plastic models of tanks, half tracks, airplanes (WWI and WWII) and tall ships.

And, I still have a huge collection of 1/72 scale military miniatures from all eras - from ancient Celts to modern US Army. Huge WWII eastern front collection. I don't work on them any more. They will pass to my grandson eventually...

Do you still build them, Magistrate, or are these from your own past?

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
22. Glad You Enjoyed Them, Sir
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 02:00 AM
Apr 2020

It has been a couple of years since I have done one, but I took up the hobby again as an adult, almost twenty years ago. So past, but not distant past. I expect I will take it up again, if only to take a break from the computer, and from reading.

Are your figures the old Airfix sort, or one of the newer offerings. I could never get paint to stick on those as a kid.

PatrickforO

(14,566 posts)
38. Yes, a lot of them are Airfix, but some are the newer
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 11:29 AM
Apr 2020

Italeri.

I usually washed them really well in warm, soapy water, rinsed and then air dried for a couple days while still on the spree.

Then, I'd spray them with a decent white primer, and after that apply the paints.

The paint does have difficulty sticking, particularly on thin areas like wrists and gun barrels. I probably should not have embarked on building the collection, but I did, and I worked on them from around age 30 to 35. Then, one day, I just stopped. Didn't need it anymore for some reason.

Funny how that works.

A few years ago, I tried a tall ship but just did not have the patience anymore. Hard to explain, but there was once a place, a zone, inside my mind that was very much comforted during the building of the model or the painting of the figurine. But now, that same zone responds to reading and writing now. And math - I'm an economist and love working with the numbers.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
45. I Know Exactly What You Mean, Sir
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 12:10 PM
Apr 2020

Both about the 'zen' of the thing, and how it may suddenly ebb away. It has been a couple of years since I completed one of these, though it is starting to tease up, the desire to apply myself to it again.

Wish I had known your tricks for the little soft plastic figures back when I was young. Neither washing nor priming would have occurred to me then.

calimary

(81,179 posts)
19. Beautiful work!
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 01:29 AM
Apr 2020

A guy I dated in college was a model airplane buff. He'd finish one and hang it from the ceiling in his bedroom, and then he'd start on another one that, in turn, would wind up hanging from his ceiling. There were at least a couple of dozen of them up there. He had several different Mustangs, and one "Pregnant Guppy"!

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
23. Glad You Like Them, Ma'am
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 02:05 AM
Apr 2020

I had to look the 'pregnant guppy' up. That is quite an aeroplane.

Not much for hanging from the ceiling, you can't see much but the undersurface.

I have the tops of a couple of cabinets in the living room, and some glassed in cabinets by a faux fireplace.

JohnnyRingo

(18,622 posts)
24. I haven't modeled since I got a computer.
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 02:32 AM
Apr 2020

But I created kits and scratch models of airplanes all my life. I have to appreciate what you did here.

I like how you focus on obscurity. Even the Fortress is in a seldom seen early model without the chin turret.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
25. I Have Enjoyed Doing Precise Little Things With My Hands, Sir, Most Of My Life
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 02:50 AM
Apr 2020

There are sites on the net where modelers gather. There is vastly more information available now, and it is more easily acquired. Usually of you have a question, someone will know the answer, and be happy to share.

Is your collection still intact, Sir? I do hope so. Mine are pretty fragile and I doubt many would survive if we were to move.

Once they put that big vertical tail on the B-17, it ceased to be pleasant to look at. Doubtless it was a better flying machine, and a better fighting aircraft as well. Military aircraft don't have to look good, they just have to function well.

I do find the obscure and out of the way more intrigues my mind. Here are a couple of pictures of a scratch-built model of a machine now quite obscure, but which in its day it was a mainstay of the French Aviation Militaire...






It is a Maurice Farman MF. 11, of Escadrille MF67 at the Battle of Artois in September, 1915. This was the standard French observation machine from October 1914, till the start of 1916, and was built in quite large numbers for the time. The device on the nacelle is a 120cm focal length camera, which served as the unit's 'magnifying glass', to provide detailed pictures of points which smaller cameras had indicated might need a closer look.

JohnnyRingo

(18,622 posts)
34. Not familiar with the MF
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 11:06 AM
Apr 2020

I'm sure I have reference to it in my hard cover library, but it looks to be license a built version of the BE2. Nice job of rigging.

I still have my old Great Planes Piper Cub hanging from the kitchen ceiling and an old Comet model of a Taylorcraft BC12 hanging in the patio. The Cub was pranged and needs shored up, and the TC is most of the way through a recovering. Both were built in the days before RTF prebuilts. I scratched a Fokker DVII during my 1st marriage, but she shashed it to pices in the ultimate get even move. I had fun building it anyway and she just pre-empted what I was probably going to do to it the first time I flew it.

Now that I have no one to say no to me, I still have many of my 1/72 kits spread around the house on every flat surface. A lot of Gee Bees of various versions. I still have some boxes of unbuilt kits, but time is running out. Flight sims take up a lot of that time now, but your pics give me inspiration, so maybe...

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
37. It Was Quite The Thing In Its Day, Sir
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 11:27 AM
Apr 2020

The Farman Brothers firm had the largest factory for manufacturing aeroplanes in the world in 1914. Maurice and Henry designed separately, Richard handled the money. Henry's designs were sold under the rubric Henri --- they were sons of an Englishman married to a Frenchwoman resident in Paris. Their designs were all of propulsion (or pusher) configuration, which as it developed the French military preferred for reconnaissance, as it gave the observer a better view of the ground. France was far and away the leading light of aviation in those days, with Germany second and England a distant third.

England's B.E. 2 was a tractor, with the airscrew in front (the B.E. stood for 'Bleriot Experimental, with Bleriot signifying a tractor configuration), and its most widely used variant, the B.E. 2c, was designed with stability in mind, not just for safety but to free the pilot's attention. In Germany and France, the observer was an officer and commanded the aeroplane, while the pilot was in most instances an enlisted man, whose training was provided by the service. In England early on, aspiring pilots were expected to learn to fly on their own, at a private school, before applying to the Flying Corps. Cost would be reimbursed on acceptance, but the result was that pilots were generally officers, and their passengers (when taken aloft at all) were generally enlisted mechanics, along to put things right in event of a forced landing. Well into the Great War, pilots in the RFC carried out most duties usually thought of as being those of an observers, including working the camera (though the passenger might change the plates), and working the radio when spotting the fall of shells for a battery.

Aristus

(66,307 posts)
30. After the Luftwaffe lost control of the skies later in WWII, German soldiers used to tell
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 09:47 AM
Apr 2020

this bitter joke:

When there are planes over the battlefield, if they're brown, they're British, if they're silver, they're American, and if you can't see them at all, they're German.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
49. Not Bad For Gallows Humor, Sir
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 12:39 PM
Apr 2020

Stripping the paint made the aircraft lighter, and manufacturing them without paint saved production time. Waxing a polishing as well cut down drag, and slightly increased speed. In the thirties, the Army required a gloss finish be maintained on aircraft, with paint sanded and wax applied, just as someone might do with a beloved automobile.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
52. Before The War, Sir
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 02:34 PM
Apr 2020

The Japanese brought by singleton or pair a great many warplanes from Europe and the United States, and certainly examined them carefully, and incorporated elements of their engineering into their own designs. This one of the reasons many in the West believed the Japanese mere imitators, whose equipment was sure to be second or third rate stuff. In the air, at least, this was a foolish belief.

CaptainTruth

(6,582 posts)
47. Beautiful! Thanks for sharing!
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 12:15 PM
Apr 2020

When I was in my teens I built every model of a WWII plane I could find. I went for detail, painting pilots faces, goggles, etc.

I really wish I still had them, I gave them away when I moved cross country many years ago.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
58. Thank You, Sir
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 05:56 PM
Apr 2020

My own interest centers more on Great War types, and on the interwar period. This latter does bleed over into the early days of the Second World War.

Here is one which straddled the line neatly, and is shiny to boot, though the shine is a replication of well-maintained aluminum dope, not bare metal....





This is a Gloster Gladiator of No. 33 Sqdn, operating from Ramallah in Mandatory Palestine, early in 1939.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
60. Glad You Like It Ma'am
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 08:38 PM
Apr 2020

That one I view as my foiling masterpiece, in old Guild terms. It is pretty large in person, almost half a yard wingtip to wingtip.

OriginalGeek

(12,132 posts)
56. Thanks!
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 05:15 PM
Apr 2020

My Grandpa would have loved this thread and while he is no longer around to enjoy it I always appreciate reasons to think about my Grandpa.

He was born and raised in Alliance Ohio and probably loved planes because of the nearby Taylorcraft factory. He joined the Army Air Corp about during WWII and retired from the Airforce in the early 60s and never lost his love of planes.

He taught me why to vote Democrat and I miss him every day.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
61. Glad It Sparked A Good Memory, Sir
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 08:43 PM
Apr 2020

Aviation was sort of 'computer career' of its day, back before the war.

I have not gone into any detail on it, but the markings on the YP-37 are unusual, applicable only in a small window of time, and I owe being able to have employed them coming upon pictures someone's grandfather took, when he was a mechanic at Langley, that had been put up on a memorabilia site by someone wanting to know what the old photographs depicted. That is the only photograph showing a YP-37 in this style of identification numbers I have ever seen.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
69. Those Things Seem To Fly Straight Into The Ground, Sir
Thu Apr 16, 2020, 09:59 AM
Apr 2020

An appalling cock-up....

Some people do excellent models of civil machines, but certainly the modern jetliners hold little charm for me.

The old Vimy 'Commercial' intrigues me, it was the first item resembling a modern airliner just after the Great War.

And there is something teases at me in this photograph...



It would need to be a scratch-build, but there is information out there on the Swallow mailplane.

DFW

(54,328 posts)
70. Granted, I did not elaborate on which direction they tended to fly
Thu Apr 16, 2020, 10:11 AM
Apr 2020

As one who flies a LOT, I tend to think of it as just one more mode of public transportation. If I have to run down to Spain for the day, I can't very well do it taking 20 hours to get there and 20 hours to get back, and still be home in time for dinner on the same day.

Charming it is not. But then, one doesn't take the métro or a streetcar for their charm (Moscow's Метро excepted), but for their convenience.

csziggy

(34,133 posts)
62. Those are beautiful!
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 10:20 PM
Apr 2020

Some time ago I posted pictures from my grandfather's photo album. From the sequence, this would have been in the late 1930s and my Dad was likely among the boys towards the tail of the plane:



The pictures immediately following the airplane pics are of the Chicago World's Fair in 1933 (also known as the Century of Progress) so I don't know if thee airfield photos were close to their home in Central Florida or possibly somewhere near Chicago. Grandfather had to report to the management of the company he worked for in Chicago once a year and the family often combined their vacation with that trip.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
65. Thank You, Ma'am
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 11:56 PM
Apr 2020

That is a very nice picture. Looking at it, I would expect it was taken in Florida. The markings on the tail indicate this was an aircraft of the 9th Bomber Group (B for bomber, I for 9th), and possibly the aircraft flown by the squadron leader of the 1st Bombardment Squadron (each group had an HQ Flight, allotted numbers 1 through 10, each of the group's three squadrons got a block of 30, running 11 to 40, 41 to 70, 71 to 100). Squadron leaders usually took the first or last number in their unit's block, and I suspect a 1st Squadron leader would have a hard time resisting the first number as his choice. The 9th Bomb Group operated on the east coast, so a Florida location seems most likely for the picture, and the time would be between 1936 and 1938.

The aircraft is a Martin B-10, probably a production B-10B. It is a significant aeroplane, as being the first modern bomber employed in the Army Air Corps, and faster than most Army fighters when it first came into service. It is a favorite of mine, and I did a model of the early trials version, which was first employed during an interesting passage when Air Mail contracts were taken over (in 1934) by the Army. It handled the trans-continental routes, from Oakland to Newark and vice versa.





The fuselage and nacelles of the airplane in your grandfather's picture would have been a deep, slightly grey-toned blue, rather then the olive drab on my model. The paint scheme employed by the Army was altered in the middle of 1934. The wings and tail would have been the same orange-tinged yellow.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
66. Thank You, Ma'am
Wed Apr 15, 2020, 11:58 PM
Apr 2020

Patience is certainly required. So is having a lot of quiet time on one's hands....

I am glad you like them.

bluedigger

(17,086 posts)
68. So nice to see your work again!
Thu Apr 16, 2020, 08:01 AM
Apr 2020

I returned to modeling after a 40 year layoff myself a couple of years ago. Mostly cars and military ground vehicles so far. Aircraft are intimidating, with their seams needing filling and all the masking for the paint. I got sucked back in by a nice hobby shop owner down in AZ who posts YouTube videos. Andy's Hobby Headquarters, if you are interested. He also started a FB group, The Mediocre Modelers Group, where folks would love to have you share your work. Stop on by, sometime, it's a friendly crowd!

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
71. Glad You Like Them, Sir
Thu Apr 16, 2020, 11:53 AM
Apr 2020

I have a lot of respect for armor modelers, the suggestions of wear and tear that their models often feature can give a striking impression of a real object shrunk down in size. Most people who try and weather aircraft do way too much of it. Often armor modeling blends over into doing figures, which is a high art indeed.

I may contact the gentleman you reference. I am quite low on EZ-Line, an elastic material I employ for rigging. It has been a while since had to acquire any, and if I do start up again, it will probably be on this stalled project, which would require quite bit of the stuff...




This is what I had begun a few years back to attempt replicating: 'El Sonora', a Martin Flyer employed during 1913 and 1914 by Gen. Obregon in the Mexican revolution:



bluedigger

(17,086 posts)
73. You are far past my mediocre skills.
Thu Apr 16, 2020, 12:30 PM
Apr 2020

Are you familiar with the Wingnut Wings model brand? They specialize in WW I planes, and have a high reputation for accuracy, as well as overall quality. They are owned by Peter Jackson, of Lord of the Rings and Hobbit movie fame, and are a New Zealand company. Rigging, of ships, or aircraft, is not anything I'll be having a go at anytime soon, but I do like a bit of dirt and rust on my models. Andy does have an online business he just started last year https://andyshhq.com and here is one I use https://www.scalehobbyist.com/index.php

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
74. They Are Wonderful, Sir
Thu Apr 16, 2020, 12:38 PM
Apr 2020

They are in 1/32, and I work only in the 'gentleman's scale', 1/72. I am tempted sorely by their Dh-2 and F.E. 2 models, though.

By providing their instructions and references for downloading, Mr. Jackson has made a tremendous contribution, not just to modeling but to history, consolidating and preserving just about all that is known of the types he has made kits of. I have used the Wingnuts site as a reference in several projects.

I will check the sites you reference, Sir.

Happy modelling!

Be well and stay safe!

P.s. Nerve counts more than skill: if you have the nerve to start a seemingly difficult project, the skill will come....

Harker

(14,007 posts)
72. Very much, thanks.
Thu Apr 16, 2020, 12:12 PM
Apr 2020

I see quite a bit of the P-47 in the P-35, and the P-37 is an interesting forerunner of the P-40.

The Oscar is also a stunner. Were you especially careful to illustrate the fabric covered control surfaces, or is that a byproduct of surface texture?

Your post makes me sorry to have ever stopped modeling.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
75. Good Observations, Sir
Thu Apr 16, 2020, 02:01 PM
Apr 2020

The P-35 is the direct ancestor of the P-47, which shows particularly in the 'razorback' early models. The transitional service form was the P-43 Lancer, which had a brief career stateside before the war, and was employed as a reconnaissance machine by the Australians, and was sent to Nationalist China on lend-lease. Maj. Seversky had been ejected from his company by then, in large part because of the clandestine sale to Japan of the 'convoy fighter' two seat model above. It then became Republic, with the same designers still in the shop.

The control surfaces are different. These were doped with a light grey paint (its exact tone an object of some debate among dedicated modelers of Japanese subjects), and as paint adhered better to this than it did to un-primed aluminum, I made the green mottle a little denser on them.

Sharp eyes you have.

People come and go out of the hobby. It may strike you to take it up again sometime.

Be well, and stay safe!

Harker

(14,007 posts)
76. Thanks for the kind words
Thu Apr 16, 2020, 11:58 PM
Apr 2020

and for the historical connections. Very much appreciated.

I hope to retire next year, so a return to scale modeling is very possible. You've inspired me to come back with a focus on 1/72 scale. I worked mostly in 1/48 and 1/32 aircraft of the world wars, and vehicles and armor of WWII in 1/35.

All those after school detailing sessions to the background noise of Gilligan's Island and Hogan's Heroes reruns, and nothing to show for it, yet I have only fun memories of the hobby.

I admire your work.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
77. The 'Gentleman's Scale' Has Its Advantages, Sir
Fri Apr 17, 2020, 04:57 PM
Apr 2020

Less costly, and takes up less space on a shelf. Easier for the detail-minded to let a few things go, too. If I worked in 1/32, I am afraid I could not be satisfied unless the instrument dials could be read....

Here is one more fairly shiny subject....





It is a Mitsubishi Type 96 Carrier Fighter, of the 14th Kokutai at Nanking in March, 1938, flown by one P/O Tetsuzo Iwamoto. It is not bare metal, but foil painted over with silver lacquer --- the Japanese Navy applied aluminum lacquer to its otherwise unpainted machines, to protect the metal against corrosion from sea salt and spray. Tetsuzo Iwamoto is a reputed 'ace' pilot with a long career, but is somewhat controversial --- a man who claims five victories in his first air combat draws a jaundiced eye from some, myself included.

Harker

(14,007 posts)
78. I may be a few unputtied gaps away
Sat Apr 18, 2020, 12:21 AM
Apr 2020

from being a gentleman, but when the time comes, I'll resume with 1/72.

A Fokker D.VII would do for starters, I think.

I'm inspired. Thanks for sharing your gleamers.

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