The DU Lounge
Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsWhen I was studying to be a Physician Assistant, I never dreamed I would have to spend so much time
explaining the principle of cause-and-effect.
I can't count how many patients I have had complaining of coughing and shortness of breath. I ask them if they smoke, and when they say 'yes', I ask them how they could possibly be surprised at the resulting symptoms, or so confused about how to make them go away.
I tell you, the Big 7 have to be the greatest salespeople in history: "Hey! We would like you to pay us to poison you to death. But before you die, you, your breath, your car, your home, and your clothes will smell bad, your lips and fingers will turn yellow, and most people won't want to be around you. How does that sound?"
Jilly_in_VA
(9,966 posts)I spent approximately the same amount of time doing the same thing as a nurse, especially in home health. It's endemic to the profession.
Aristus
(66,328 posts)I could never do what you do
Jilly_in_VA
(9,966 posts)A guy I worked with in one ICU was accepted to PA school and we all were in awe. But his school was in ND and there wasn't anyplace close. It was the same issue I'd had with midwifery training earlier. So I stayed in critical care, where I'd bounced back to after home health (loooooong story).
Mme. Defarge
(8,028 posts)as a result of her longtime exposure to second hand smoke. Several years before that her husband - a chain smoker - died from smoking related causes.
zaj
(3,433 posts)They can be stupid and still succeed.
Tadpole Raisin
(972 posts)they were on and that all the doctors did was pump pills. In a conversation lasting about 10 minutes I made a few suggestions for changes in their lifestyle or diet that might help them get off those drugs.
Very gently I said they could just slowly change one thing at a time, work with the doctor, and over months they would start seeing the benefits and that it would help them feel like they were getting back control of their life and reduce some specific symptoms they were concerned about.
The response? Well my doctor gives me something to take for that.
People complain about taking pills but drugs are just too easy. Its the quick fix they know is not a fix but denial and blame are also quick and easy.
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,463 posts)So in my later years I got it too.
Did a crash course on how to manage diabeties
Lost a ton of weight,watch what I eat and my blood sugar is around 91 to 112.
hay rick
(7,608 posts)I'm thinking that must be why I smoked for fifteen+ years before I gave it up when the idea of self-destructive addiction triggered a critical mass of revulsion.
MLAA
(17,288 posts)demigoddess
(6,640 posts)Most parents should be told they are making their kids hooked on tobacco and they will probably start smoking in their teens.
I got addicted to tabacco by having daily coffee with a neighbor. Anti smoking me actually bought a pack of cigarettes and started to smoke them. Then realized what I was doing and stopped it.
summer_in_TX
(2,738 posts)Too many smokers have no idea about the connection between smoking and becoming impotent.
IronLionZion
(45,434 posts)and some developing countries still promote that myth.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)Response to Aristus (Original post)
jfz9580m This message was self-deleted by its author.
appleannie1
(5,067 posts)I can assure you it is not easy to quit. I tried everything, cold turkey, cut back so many each day, chewing gum, nicotine gum, patches, hypnotism, and finally 10 days on Chantix and I have not smoked since. It has been over 10 years now and I still get an urge every once in a while.
Native
(5,942 posts)I too tried everything. I finally quit with the help of patches back in the day when they were prescribed. I only smoked for about 10 years, and I was a light smoker, but I was 100% addicted. And I never enjoyed smoking. It always made me feel like crap, and I desperately wanted to quit, but man did I become a nasty human being whenever I tried to go cold turkey. Fortunately the patches worked like a charm for me.
appleannie1
(5,067 posts)My doctor told me he had a patient that quit cocaine but could not stop smoking. He too said nicotine was more addictive. I am super glad I was able to quit. I have no idea how I could afford to smoke at today's cost. I know people that can't afford to eat more than one cheap meal a day but buy a pack of butts every day. They can't afford anything else but manage to get that pack of cigarettes.
ancianita
(36,053 posts)or we won't be able to help build a better future for our descendants.
This cause-effect problem hits the 30% who, even though well educated, don't
realize that 7 out of 10 people they meet didn't get past high school, nor do the 30% grasp how that education difference plays out in society over time. It hits them and society's wallet hardest.
Two reasons:
First, at least two generations of Americans have had it drilled into them, to the level of a cultural norm, that we don't need no college, because what America needs is innovation -- see Bill Gates, Zuckerberg, Jobs, Madden, etc, etc. -- and that cultural norm keeps 30 exceptions front and center, to get over 300 million to believe they can be like that, too. So corporations have campaigned for a culture of ignorant consumers. Having is being/Money is freedom -- a good size of 70% of Americans. College grads and 'some college' make up the other 30%. That's a lot of people walking around with a high school understanding of how things work.
Second, public schools must put more consistent planning, teaching and testing emphasis on thinking skills, and start that emphasis no later than 7th grade, so that kids understand cause-effect thinking and other logic strengths, as well as fallacies.
Also understand that the pupil-teacher ratio of 30:1 makes teaching logic and argument actually the hardest things to teach. My experience as a high school teacher of research and debate has been that it's not enough to have students point out when logic is faulty. That's typical of what they get, mostly, because flaws are easiest for teachers to point out and explain. The most constructive units teach what topics are arguable, what their experience with arguers and arguments has been, who benefits in arguments, when and why argument its supports are solid. ALL with plenty of example from both teacher and students.
It takes a few years to grasp examples of cause-effect across various areas of life, and so it should be systematically taught. What happens to people who read v those who don't read is one example. Or the simple example of a person slipping on a banana peel -- either of these get streams of issues opened up (induction/deduction, audience capacity, facts v opinion, time management, etc).
A commitment to openness and the whole truth are mandatory components of any units that teach argument.
I have to say that I learned this from students: they say previous teachers didn't teach something, just because they didn't learn it, and I could prove to them for a fact that I knew and saw those teachers' classes and lessons.
I've learned that poor learners with poor attitudes need logic repeated, and again later, and usually the hard way.
Which bring us around to why Republicans are generally stupid -- because they exemplify those who don't get cause-effect until it actually happens to them; e.g., covid and their behavior, school v no school...
And because they weren't taught, professionals like you have to make up for that during your entire career.
Ignorance, denial and addiction are expensive; capitalism prefers it that way.
Sorry for going on and on, but this sticks in my craw, too.
Mr.Bill
(24,284 posts)who coughs every 30 seconds 24 hours a day calls it her "allergies".
After I heard that enough times I told her the only thing she is allergic to is Marlboro cigarettes.
deurbano
(2,895 posts)to see what it was like... and just a few puffs)... but sometimes I feel a craving for a cigarette! (Not enough to actually buy any... but still.) I think the intense advertising I experienced growing up.. plus the ubiquitous product placement in movies and on TV have definitely played a role... and maybe the second hand smoke from parents who smoked?
I really find it a triumph of the human spirit when people manage to quit smoking, especially given these cravings I experience, despite never having started!
wendyb-NC
(3,325 posts)Some people have brains that are unable to make the simplest connections, regarding their health, etc.
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,463 posts)Grew up in a household with 4 smokers. I decided early on I was never going to smoke. So I never have. I remember walking into my livingroom as a kid and the smoke in the air formed layers of different densities.
Since I had no chair or place to sit on the couch I sat on the floor when we all gathered round to watch stuff like all in the family. I got home from school sat on the floor while watching cartoons too. It was less smoky and stinky on the floor.I think I may have gotten lung damage if I was up to the levels where the family was smoking like fiends and smoke was in thick layers in the air.
I think cigarettes are incredibly disgusting.
On a positive note both my sisters and my mom quit eventually.
happybird
(4,606 posts)I now feel no shame in admitting I was an IV drug user. It was intense and eventually utterly miserable, and Im lucky to have survived the whole mess.
I havent been able to quit smoking cigarettes.
Im watching my Mom die of COPD. My grandparents died from COPD. Her sister was recently diagnosed with it. Ive tried and tried but have been unable to quit. I know what it is doing to me, I know I will likely also die from COPD. And they never smoked pot or crack for a couple decades, just cigarettes. Im so fucked. Nicotine and caffeine seem to be the two things I cannot conquer.
Emile
(22,715 posts)kick the habit. 30 years smoking and 10 years of smokeless tobacco.
Irish_Dem
(47,028 posts)I think most of us in health care spend a lot of time explaining things.
zanana1
(6,112 posts)She knows that I'm overweight and she knows that I know that. She also knows that a diet won't be successful if it's pushed on me..
Aristus
(66,328 posts)Its natural to enjoy eating and to want to eat a lot if the food is good, or if were assuaging an emotional need.
Smoking is an unnatural, life-taking habit that we have to be coerced into adopting; (It will make you a man - People will think youre glamorous and sophisticated) It absolutely shatters me that people are still doing it, and that it could kill my patients whom I love and care about.
zanana1
(6,112 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,648 posts)never looked back.