The DU Lounge
Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsJust Need to Vent.
Most people who see me don't know that I'm black. However, on the Internet, I tend to announce it. I have just had an experience with someone who, knowing that I am black, took it upon herself to announce that I am ignorant AND difficult, but she is giving me choice morsels of information that I should be paying her for.
And why? Because her company advertised themselves as open to African-American literature. So I contacted them about my book. The woman who contacted me bragged about her 150,000 person readership. SO! I asked what percentage of those people read African-American literature. I thought it was a reasonable question. Especially since her company was going to charge me hundreds of dollars to promote my book. I think I did a bit of math and pointed out that if 1 in 1000 people bought my book, I would need 250,000 readers to break even.
My GOD, she got nasty. She wrote to me specifically to tell me that her director had given her permission to reject me as a client because the book was "niche" and I was being difficult.
Well, I wrote back and explained that I had someone who was doing generic advertising, but I was looking for black reviewers, and since her company had advertised themselves that way, I had mistakenly thought she could do what I needed. I then thanked her for her time, and apologized for my error.
SHE WROTE BACK. More ugliness, more condescension, more "why are you bothering me, look it up yourself, use Google".
*I* wrote back. I am very sorry to take up your time.
SHE WROTE BACK - you should be paying me for my time.
SHE WROTE BACK AGAIN - you are ignorant if you don't know how this works.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It hurt. Five times, this woman called me ignorant in every possible way. Even after I apologized for taking up her time. Even after I apologized for making the mistake of contacting her.
Maybe she was just having a bad day. But I really didn't need that.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)You don't need her!
CurtEastPoint
(18,641 posts)ananda
(28,858 posts)She's just not worth it.
spooky3
(34,444 posts)You were kinder than I would have been.
PJMcK
(22,035 posts)She was rude and insulting.
You dont need her negativity in your life.
Good luck with your book. When its published, let us know. Ill buy a copy.
Nittersing
(6,360 posts)Just bought it, looks good 🙂
highplainsdem
(48,974 posts)Walleye
(31,017 posts)Its about all you can do
qwlauren35
(6,148 posts)I told her to go away and leave me alone.
I just couldn't take it any more.
rurallib
(62,411 posts)marked50
(1,366 posts)what barriers that others face that we may not be remotely aware of..
jmbar2
(4,874 posts)I am so sorry that you were disrespected. That woman should be fired for that.
Stories like yours make me realize the enormous burden borne by African Americans over the centuries.
I keep a picture of John Lewis getting beaten down as a reminder of how much we owe to African Americans. And how much responsibility I have to stay committed to change. I pray that you can find someplace else that will give you the chance that you deserve.
Peace be with you today.
blm
(113,052 posts)She sounded rude, condescending, and inappropriate.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)Just because she labeled you as ignorant doesn't mean that you are ignorant. You don't exist with her labels, which are created in her mind -- a mind that was angry and rather rude. Don't let her angry words disturb your peace of mind. You're better than that.
TygrBright
(20,759 posts)"Book Designer"
"Book Promoter"
"Niche Publisher"
"Book Printer(!)"
Basically, it's a dozen or so ways to get money from writers who want their work published and consumed, but who haven't been able (or haven't tried, or have given up...) to work through the conventional agent/publisher system.
A few, a VERY few out of the total zoo, are honest providers of a specific service such as publication prep: You send them a manuscript in any form of text file, and they will do the necessary work to format it for publication according to whatever publication standard you specify. This can be a lot of work and is often worth paying someone else for. Or promotion, once your book is in print - an honest promoter will work with you to reach your audience, by creating marketing materials and supplying them to likely outlets, getting radio or podcast interviews lined up, etc. Again, this can be exhausting and mind-numbing tasks for a writer, and with publishers' promotion budgets hovering around $0 for anything but popular/known quantity writers, it may be a worthwhile investment.
But many if not most of these pond scum have an array of online tools that basically cookie-cut a few things, for which they charge you a vast sum, without any accountability in terms of actual outcomes. ("We sent your blurb and materials to over 5,000 bookstores!" Well, yeah, as a spam email, which the bookstores very properly ignored.)
In the old days, if you wrote a book, you bought (or went to the library and photocopied the relevant pages from) "Publisher's Marketplace (YEAR)" and started sending agents and/or publishers their stated requirements (chapter outline, summary, etc.). And kept files of all your rejection letters until you got lucky. Or maybe you never got lucky, and that manuscript was found in a bottom drawer years later.
And that was pretty much it. Your investment in getting yourself published might amount to a few hundred bucks in photocopying, mailing, etc. And you either struck it lucky, or not. Either way, you knew what you were getting into, and it rarely amounted to more than you could afford.
(And yes, there were some 'vanity publishers' around back then but they rarely worked with aspiring fiction writers, and aspiring fiction writers rarely had the vanity publisher route on their radar.)
Then came modern publishing tools and the Internet and suddenly everyone was an author and everyone was a publisher and all of a sudden there were enough hopeful aspiring writers who could be cheaply and easily marketed to, to make them a genuine target, and... we're off!
If you can afford to be a self-published, self-promoting writer, and it's your idea of a good time, enjoy! That is now easier and (comparatively) less expensive than ever, if you go about it intelligently.
I have a friend who has self-published over a dozen works of fiction in their retirement, and promotes them every summer in one of those super-campers with a trailer attached for the boxes of books. They are aimed at a very specific niche that can be marketed to by going to niche-focused festivals and gatherings, and my friends (writer and spouse) spent several of their early retirement years firing up the camper in late April/early May and making the rounds of these festivals and gatherings all over America throughout the summer, winding down in October. Then home to write more books over the winter.
Of course, that couple both retired on very good pensions and had also saved for their retirement, owned their home, etc. They were in a position to pursue this expensive hobby. The book sales basically supported the travel costs and gave them various tax write-offs but they never even broke even on the printing and bindery costs.
And, they had thoroughly researched what services were worth paying for and what they could do better themselves, and as retirees, they had the time and energy to do all those things.
But soon the energy faded, their health deteriorated as it does when you get old, and they couldn't all that traveling and festival/event attending.
My friend still writes. And shares .pdf files with friends. But no longer pays for jacket design, printing, etc., and when consulted about self-publishing by other aspiring writers (some of the early books have actually sold in the hundreds of copies on Amazon.com, which makes it an exceptionally successful self-publishing adventure), shares the sage advice "Do it if you love doing it and can afford it, BECAUSE you love doing it. Don't expect anyone but friends and family to read it, and regard it as a nice surprise if anyone else ever does."
Another friend was less fortunate. Absolutely certain that the book they had been writing and holding in their heart for many years would succeed if they could only get it into print (and this was a good, well-written novel - not of a type/genre that I like but literate, well-plotted, with good character development and an interesting theme) ended up spending nearly $20,000 that they COULD NOT AFFORD for the experience. They still have boxes of the book stacked at the back of the garage, but since they're having to sell the house, they'll need to find something to do with them.
So I am not surprised, qwlauren, that you have met up with one of the nastier remoras of the writer exploitation industry. You were clearly too savvy, too well-organized and precise in what you were looking for and were willing to pay for. They saw you coming. They knew they couldn't jack you for anything worth their precious time.
Now let them go, and good luck with your book! It's incredibly impressive that you have actually written an actual book, do you know that? Do you know how many people noodle for years writing stuff and dreaming and believing they COULD write a book and they never actually do it?
And you did it! So take that triumph with you and know that Ms Nasty-email will never in her entire miserable life accomplish anything like that.
admiringly,
Bright
yonder
(9,664 posts)It sounds like you've been in or around that process yourself.
TygrBright
(20,759 posts)We get lots of enquiries from various friends and acquaintances about how to get books published.
There are no "easy" routes.
Painfully difficult as it is, actually writing the book IS the easy part.
diffidently,
Bright
qwlauren35
(6,148 posts)I plan to write EVERYTHING off next year. I'm keeping track of it, adding it up. I have dedicated a single credit card to it, so that I can track it properly.
I didn't expect it to be quite so expensive. And so, I have decided to stop. Stop promoting it, stop dealing with it altogether. Let it be out there on Amazon, and on the author website that my publisher will monitor and call it a day.
The publisher that I am working with takes a nice big cut of every book that sells, so it's profitable for them to push the book on my author website, on Instagram, on Facebook, on Twitter. That's fine with me. But I *know* that their strategy will not get me to the market I want. Individuals, maybe. But not my community. So, I'm doing some of my own marketing. And in the process, I see how little bang you get for the buck. I have sold 20+ books. I have no idea how many were bought by friends. I figure whatever I sell NEXT week will be from genuine advertising. My friends all have their copies now.
EVERYBODY who has read the book likes it. The reviews that have been posted are positive. Some people have said "Wow! Better than I expected!" My initial desire was just to share the stories with the world. That really is still my desire. I know that I will NEVER make back what I put in. NEVER. So, this is a hobby. An experiment. A labor of love. But not a business.
I have a full-time job. A very lucrative full-time job. There was a lull, and it made this book possible. That lull is over. And I have no more time for this "hobby".
TygrBright: You are absolutely right. There is an entire industry built around "helping" (Scamming) authors publish. I have avoided as much as I could, while still taking in information that seemed valuable. However, it keeps coming up on my Facebook feed. I am learning to ignore it.
- Valuable: get a launch team, get reviewers. I have 20.
- NOT Valuable: set up keywords so that your book will jump to #1 Bestseller on Amazon. It's just a long shot.
- NOT Valuable: build up an e-mail list so that people are hungry for your NEXT book. Well, there's not going to be another book. Took me 15 years to write this one.
- POSSIBLY Valuable: Give away a chapter. That's done for you on Amazon "look inside".
- Valuable: Design an awesome cover that is eye-catching. Mine REALLY stands out.
- Valuable: Develop an amazing description that entices. I did a LOT of homework on this, read a lot of others in my genre, learned about "enticing words that set a tone", passed it by friends, fixed anything that was offensive, added LOTS of adjectives (some kind of rule), and sent it to the publishers. They added 5 words. It was good enough.
Your story about your friends makes a lot of sense to me. I have always known that bookselling is a labor of love, and it takes a lot for it to be profitable. You have inspired me to plan a sequel... when I retire. 10 years from now. But more importantly, you are encouraging me to let go. I think today was a lesson in that. Let go. I have done enough. (Well, there are a few more things I plan to do, but not much.) On Sunday, June 19th, I will have my "launch party". Thirty of my friends who have suffered through listening to me go through this process will come together for good food. I will sign copies. I will read excerpts. There are a few people in my life who are very dear to me but live far away, and I am going to send them signed copies. And then, I'm DONE. DONE. DONE.
TygrBright
(20,759 posts)Also, from the "look inside" on Amazon, you have a fine writer's voice, and you can do short fiction. Now that you have a work in circulation (however small the circulation may be, having a completed work like that is impressive, shows you can accomplish it, not just talk about it!) you may have some success with future short pieces in compilations and periodicals.
You have a "credit" that matters, with a book in publication.
So, if and only if it's a labor of love and enjoyment to write more, and you feel relaxed and hopeful about it, you may find more success that route. I don't know the periodicals/compilations market well enough to give specific advice, but do a search on "who publishes short fiction" and see what's out there.
You can do that on your own schedule, and who knows where it might go?
The main thing is, it's cheap and you stay in control. Sure, you don't get 'book sales' and getting a story placed isn't the same rush as holding a book that's all yours in your hands - but by the time you retire you might have a few credits that will help you interest an agent and/or a publisher for more.
Thanks for letting me know my maunderings were useful!
appreciatively,
Bright
MLAA
(17,288 posts)Just bought your book on Amazon and looks good! Best of luck!
Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)Karadeniz
(22,513 posts)off your list of worthwhile people.
mgardener
(1,816 posts)You should not have had to put up with her nastiness.
We all deal with nasty people.
Hope you can get that book published!
KS Toronado
(17,216 posts)FakeNoose
(32,634 posts)You should ignore any further provocation from her, and that includes letters, emails and phone calls.
This woman is rude AND loony, and you should not allow yourself to be provoked into engagement.
My advice to you is don't respond, and don't initiate! You've done all you can, and she's hopeless.
MacKasey
(986 posts)I thought your question was very reasonable.
So sorry that person was rude to you
It is so much easier to be kind and it makes you feel better
This person has a rage of hate inside, it's crazy that she keeps emailing you
tblue37
(65,340 posts)to magazines. I think they are good enough to be published that way, too.
qwlauren35
(6,148 posts)I'm so glad that you're enjoying it.
Tadpole Raisin
(972 posts)She is ignorant and also seems narcissistic. She tried to get a rise out of you and it didnt work which pissed her off more.
Really, my hat is off to you! Glad you vented here.
PurgedVoter
(2,217 posts)I really doubt she would have been an advocate for you book. That attitude of theirs makes me fear they might not be quite honest. I expect an editor to hurt your feelings, we are all sensitive about our work. This was someone in marketing and not behaving like they know what marketing means or like they would do anything extra to help you.
I would try the magazine route for sure and don't be shy of the big ones, a lot of editors are looking for breadth and want to serve communities that have been less served in the past.
Sadly, while they all say write, write, write, the same places say pay, pay, pay to play, and trust me on this, the second a method to actually push a book to success shows up, it will be overused that same day by the folk that have been trying to sell their hack method to you.
As a possible sideline, since the miner 49er averaged way less than the folk washing their clothing, and the writer to writer service is following that model, there are white boy writers who need sensitivity readers desperately. Not sure they will give you the respect you deserve or they can pay what you are worth, but that is a type of editing that is desperately needed out there.