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Aristus

(72,187 posts)
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 02:11 PM Sep 2022

One of the reasons for my rotten day in clinic yesterday: An antivaxxer.

Now, all antivaxxers are full of crap. But I think this one was going for a crap-capacity world record.

New patient, primary care provider hunting. She said she had a hard time keeping a PCP, and now I know why. I didn't even bring up the subject of immunization; she did that on her own, coming out swinging, saying what she will and won't do for health maintenance. Parentheses are what I thought; italics are what I actually said.

"I don't do vaccines or immunizations or anything like that."

("Then why are you here, wasting your time and mine?" )

"I know there is a lot of misinformation about vaccines out there. I'll be happy to address your concerns."

"I saw this YouTube video with this guy from the CIA. At least, he said he was from the CIA. He says there are molecules in the COVID-19 vaccine. Do you know what molecules are?"

("Yes, because I stayed awake in fourth-grade science class!" )

"Yes, I know what molecules are."

"Well he said that the molecules in the COVID vaccine give you HIV."

("This is the stupidest shit I've ever heard in my life!" )

"Did he have any training in virology or immunology?"

"Umm..."

("That's what I thought." )

"The Journal of the AMA, the British Medical Journal, the New England Journal of Medicine, and the Journal of the AAPA all say the vaccines are safe, and - "

"I'M NOT GOING TO BE PRESSURED INTO THIS! What was your name again? I'm going to report you!"

I gave her my card, because all she is going to get from Admin about a provider with my experience is: 'We're sorry this happened. We'll look into it." She'll never hear from them again, and she can go back to looking for a quack who will agree with her bullshit.

These situations are so disheartening.

65 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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One of the reasons for my rotten day in clinic yesterday: An antivaxxer. (Original Post) Aristus Sep 2022 OP
They aren't worth the time and frustration dealing with them. Their minds/opinions are cast in cement RKP5637 Sep 2022 #1
My thing is: if they are opposed to medical care, why walk into the clinic in the first place? Aristus Sep 2022 #3
Yeah, it never ceases to amaze ... n/t RKP5637 Sep 2022 #7
This message was self-deleted by its author catbyte Sep 2022 #16
I hear you. I spend time on YouTube and several months ago, a channel popped on my homepage. catbyte Sep 2022 #17
I've wondered this my whole career. evolves Sep 2022 #20
I've said this a hundred times, i swear! bluestarone Sep 2022 #53
She's just the sort to keep quacks employed. Turbineguy Sep 2022 #2
You have my deepest sympathy. That kind of idiocy must be painful to deal with Ocelot II Sep 2022 #4
It has its compensations. Aristus Sep 2022 #6
Even worse....he has to.... Trueblue Texan Sep 2022 #31
Omg! Molecules!!!!!! uppityperson Sep 2022 #5
I had molecules once Conjuay Sep 2022 #10
Ya gotta watch out evolves Sep 2022 #21
Those molecules are EVERYWHERE though ... The Deep State has planted them! Sky Jewels Sep 2022 #22
Just tell her it's too late, the molecules have been released Habitation Sep 2022 #60
Yeah, the windmills are spreading CCCCC molecules far and wide! Sky Jewels Sep 2022 #62
We really need an LOL button!nt Trueblue Texan Sep 2022 #32
"Do you know what molecules are?" elleng Sep 2022 #8
i skipped fpurth grade soldierant Sep 2022 #42
And sadly, from some of the stories I've heard, I then hear about patients catching something, SWBTATTReg Sep 2022 #9
Nurse who gave me my booster said she loved giving vaccines; the people are so pleasant. Midnight Writer Sep 2022 #11
Be nice if you could install one of these in your office... IrishAfricanAmerican Sep 2022 #12
Anti-vaxxers are ignorant, selfish murderers Timeflyer Sep 2022 #13
The good news is that because of being anti-vaxx they're dying off faster than us OMGWTF Sep 2022 #24
It's early in your career - but keep this in mind: MyOwnPeace Sep 2022 #14
I like that advice. Aristus Sep 2022 #48
Did you just got bit by a wild fox? multigraincracker Sep 2022 #15
Polio cyclonefence Sep 2022 #18
I think, to a certain extent, vaccines are a victim of their own efficacy. Chellee Sep 2022 #37
The return of smallpox is my recurring nightmare nt cyclonefence Sep 2022 #59
Why find a doctor when Mr.Bill Sep 2022 #19
500 Americans a day are still dying from Covid molecules. Sky Jewels Sep 2022 #23
LOL, I loved your 'thought answers!' Tadpole Raisin Sep 2022 #25
She should go see Dr. Oz FakeNoose Sep 2022 #26
I think he's selling, not buying. nt Chellee Sep 2022 #36
What did she want from you? Demobrat Sep 2022 #27
She's undergoing treatment for mental health disorders. Aristus Sep 2022 #49
Ivermectin can stop molecules in one day! CCExile Sep 2022 #28
And if the colloidal silver doesn't work... Trueblue Texan Sep 2022 #34
Yeah...they are disheartening.... Trueblue Texan Sep 2022 #29
A friend of my daughter SCantiGOP Sep 2022 #30
My daughter is a doctor of physical therapy. colorado_ufo Sep 2022 #38
She is at a private facility SCantiGOP Sep 2022 #41
My daughter had a patient..... McKim Sep 2022 #33
It really is sad... Trueblue Texan Sep 2022 #35
Never trust those sneaky little molecules IronLionZion Sep 2022 #39
I think crap-pacity should be a word. colorado_ufo Sep 2022 #40
They are the same idiots NewEnglandAutumn Sep 2022 #43
Revealing characterization krkaufman Sep 2022 #44
I'll think of you when I get my next booster Marthe48 Sep 2022 #45
Not because of the pain, I hope. Aristus Sep 2022 #50
The good health advice Marthe48 Sep 2022 #54
Cool. Aristus Sep 2022 #57
My EX-wife had an account on FB so... jerseyjim Sep 2022 #46
welcome to du (i know it's been over a month, but still... welcome) orleans Sep 2022 #47
treat it like a mental health issue Skittles Sep 2022 #51
Did she wear a mask in the clinic? Emile Sep 2022 #52
We required her to. Aristus Sep 2022 #63
I can't imagine the conversations she had going on in her head Marthe48 Sep 2022 #55
So many times over my 45 years in pediatrics did I do exactly... 3catwoman3 Sep 2022 #56
The Actual COVID/HIV link is FALSE Positive HIV reading and those trials are discontinued. TigressDem Sep 2022 #58
I don't know how you put up with it. DFW Sep 2022 #61
There are molecules in it! LeftishBrit Sep 2022 #64
No, but Aristus Sep 2022 #65

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
1. They aren't worth the time and frustration dealing with them. Their minds/opinions are cast in cement
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 02:14 PM
Sep 2022

Aristus

(72,187 posts)
3. My thing is: if they are opposed to medical care, why walk into the clinic in the first place?
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 02:18 PM
Sep 2022

If you're sick, just find some whacko who will roll some chicken bones, recite an incantation, and maybe give you a plaster of horse dung, or something like that. If one is opposed to science, maybe don't go to a medical clinic, and definitely don't walk in to mine!

Response to Aristus (Reply #3)

catbyte

(39,153 posts)
17. I hear you. I spend time on YouTube and several months ago, a channel popped on my homepage.
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 02:56 PM
Sep 2022

So I clicked on it. Big mistake, lol. It was a 700-pound plus something woman who was supposed to be documenting her "weight loss journey", but all she managed to do was gain weight and became essentially bed-bound. Her "boyfriend," a serious alcoholic sponging off of her, went on a lengthy rant eschewing "Western Medicine" as a scam and vaccines are evil blah blah blah. The woman sat in her wheelchair, nodding in agreement. Several months later, her channel popped up again, so I decided to check on her "weight loss journey". She was in the hospital with untreated diabetes, cellulitis, kidney issues, and Covid. She had been there for months, and her alcoholic boyfriend was with her every day. So much for denouncing "Western medicine." And even though she was put on a diet, her "boyfriend" brought her takeout every day, so she managed to gain weight. Sometimes people are just beyond help. Good luck to them.

I have so much respect for you and your colleagues who have to put up with this kind of crap on a regular basis. You are appreciated more than you know.

evolves

(5,837 posts)
20. I've wondered this my whole career.
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 03:37 PM
Sep 2022

Why ask for medical help if you are not going to heed the recommendations?

bluestarone

(22,179 posts)
53. I've said this a hundred times, i swear!
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 06:56 PM
Sep 2022

If their faith is STRONG, then stay home and believe, trust, then die! it's that easy. (most want end of the world anyhow)

Turbineguy

(40,076 posts)
2. She's just the sort to keep quacks employed.
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 02:18 PM
Sep 2022

A guy could make some money by buying peasant insurance on these types.

Ocelot II

(130,537 posts)
4. You have my deepest sympathy. That kind of idiocy must be painful to deal with
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 02:19 PM
Sep 2022

because you have to bite your tongue and refrain from telling them they are not only weapons-grade stupid but an actual menace to society. I couldn't do your job; I'm not such a nice person.

Aristus

(72,187 posts)
6. It has its compensations.
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 02:20 PM
Sep 2022

The very next patient after her was also a new patient, and he was the nicest, sweetest guy in the world. I really liked our visit, and I think he has a new medical home for his care.

Habitation

(5,717 posts)
60. Just tell her it's too late, the molecules have been released
Sun Sep 4, 2022, 07:55 AM
Sep 2022

into the atmosphere by those giant windmills.

 

Sky Jewels

(9,148 posts)
62. Yeah, the windmills are spreading CCCCC molecules far and wide!
Sun Sep 4, 2022, 11:56 AM
Sep 2022

What is CCCCC you ask? ... Chronic China-Caused Covid Cancer

elleng

(141,926 posts)
8. "Do you know what molecules are?"
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 02:24 PM
Sep 2022

("Yes, because I stayed awake in fourth-grade science class!" )



SWBTATTReg

(26,257 posts)
9. And sadly, from some of the stories I've heard, I then hear about patients catching something,
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 02:33 PM
Sep 2022

that a shot could have prevented easily, begging the doctor(s) and / or nurse(s) for the shot(s) to save their lives.

SMH.

These situations are heartbreaking but there are a lot more people that do appreciate your advice and help, remember that. I do and I appreciate the help and kindness that you and others in your field, despite the challenges that have been thrown at you during these (in particular) last several years, and yet you all are troopers, still there to help.

Midnight Writer

(25,410 posts)
11. Nurse who gave me my booster said she loved giving vaccines; the people are so pleasant.
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 02:42 PM
Sep 2022

She said when a patient walks into the clinic, you never know what kind of behavior you may encounter.

But when a patient comes in asking for a Covid vaccine, you nearly always deal with someone who is reasonable and pleasant.

Timeflyer

(3,757 posts)
13. Anti-vaxxers are ignorant, selfish murderers
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 02:44 PM
Sep 2022

who are long gone after they infect a vulnerable person. Wish there were anti-vaxxer colonies where they could be isolated like lepers.

OMGWTF

(5,131 posts)
24. The good news is that because of being anti-vaxx they're dying off faster than us
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 03:46 PM
Sep 2022

and physicist Neil DeGrasse Tyson (who does math) said it could be enough to sway some elections to the Dems. There are still over 400 Americans a day dying from Covid. Guessing (hoping) most of them are Rs.

MyOwnPeace

(17,557 posts)
14. It's early in your career - but keep this in mind:
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 02:47 PM
Sep 2022

When you're down to your last 2 weeks before retiring - you'll get yet another patient like this.

You will then have some really fine 'options' - and you won't even have to just 'think' them!

First off, you will have NO reason to hold back on the very same phrases you 'thought' - what the hell, SAY THEM!!!!

Others could include:

1. "I'm sorry - this is not where you would go for a 'psyc. eval.'"

2. "You're NUTS! Get out of here!"

3. Or, if you're STILL willing to be calm, polite, and wanting to 'deliver' your message: "I think you would be happier being tended to by someone that doesn't know a damned thing about medicine and would be quite willing to take your money."

But, in the meantime - be cool - continue to help those that want and need your help - and know that you are doing a wonderful thing for society!


Aristus

(72,187 posts)
48. I like that advice.
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 05:35 PM
Sep 2022

I’m looking forward to putting it, literally, into practice.



I don’t know if I’m still early in my career. I got my license to practice medicine as a PA at the age of forty-one. I’m fifty-three now, and can see working for maybe another fifteen years or so.

multigraincracker

(37,651 posts)
15. Did you just got bit by a wild fox?
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 02:51 PM
Sep 2022

It was acting strange?
You don’t do vaccines?
Shall I call the guys in white jackets?

cyclonefence

(5,151 posts)
18. Polio
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 02:56 PM
Sep 2022

I had polio in 1954, just before the Salk vaccine was available. There were lines blocks long to get vaccinated against this horrible disease, and no one questioned its safety or mysterious powers in its molecules. Everyone got vaccinated; they were terrified of polio.

There are now outbreaks of polio in the US, not confined to isolated religious communities where the chance of spread to the general population is small. I wonder if the rise of the anti-vaxxers who refuse to get their babies vaccinated against polio are responsible.

The internet, plus poor education in science and civics.

Chellee

(2,300 posts)
37. I think, to a certain extent, vaccines are a victim of their own efficacy.
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 04:23 PM
Sep 2022

People used to be afraid of disease because everyone knew a family that had lost a child to measles, polio, diphtheria, etc. Because of vaccines it's been several generations since those types of diseases were commonplace. The people who remember don't talk about it, and the people who don't know, can't imagine it.

Now people are afraid of accidents. Things like car crashes, and untended pools, because those are the things that could unexpectedly take their children. It doesn't occur to them that their perfectly healthy, happy child could develop a fever, and two days later they could be asked to make funeral arrangements.

I think you're absolutely right. The rise in polio is directly correlated to the rise in anti-vaxxers. It's not smallpox. These diseases weren't eradicated, they were just beaten into submission. But they're out there, just waiting for an opportunity to do what disease does, which is spread.

The truly sad part is that some of them are going to lose their children. Children that don't have to die.

Also, shoutout to antibiotics and antivirals. Between them and vaccines, death by disease, at least in first world countries, has plummeted over the last half century. Science has brought us so much, and to turn your back on it because you refuse to learn your own species history is just so. freaking. sad. And frustrating, and infuriating, and, and, and.

Mr.Bill

(24,906 posts)
19. Why find a doctor when
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 03:05 PM
Sep 2022

YouTube is full of people wearing lab coats willing to dispense medical advice, right?

 

Sky Jewels

(9,148 posts)
23. 500 Americans a day are still dying from Covid molecules.
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 03:45 PM
Sep 2022

This woman just might be one of them, before too long.

Tadpole Raisin

(1,977 posts)
25. LOL, I loved your 'thought answers!'
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 03:52 PM
Sep 2022

It’s the only way you can get through the day dealing with them.

Then they do what they want anyway, but come to the hospital when they f$&@# up and blame the medical system for the problem they created or ignored.


“After seeing half a country actively reject wearing a mask during a pandemic, I would like to apologize to the filmmakers of every horror movie ever made for calling their characters unbelievably dumb for going into the murder basement.”

FakeNoose

(41,634 posts)
26. She should go see Dr. Oz
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 04:03 PM
Sep 2022

I think he'll be back in practice again, real soon. He buys all that stuff.

Demobrat

(10,299 posts)
27. What did she want from you?
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 04:03 PM
Sep 2022

Did she have symptoms of some sort? Was she just looking for attention?

Sorry you have to waste your time on someone like that, when there are so many in desperate need of someone like you.

Aristus

(72,187 posts)
49. She's undergoing treatment for mental health disorders.
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 05:40 PM
Sep 2022

Her therapist told her she needs a primary care provider. Presumably to prescribe recommended medications. Therapists who don’t have prescriptive authority do that a lot.

CCExile

(524 posts)
28. Ivermectin can stop molecules in one day!
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 04:04 PM
Sep 2022

And coloidal silver can prevent you ever even GETTING molecules in the first place! Damn you, MSMM (Main Stream Medical Mendicants)! /s

Trueblue Texan

(4,465 posts)
34. And if the colloidal silver doesn't work...
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 04:19 PM
Sep 2022

...my sister-in-law has some crap she made from habanero peppers that won't let ANYTHING live in your system...she just didn't make it quite hot enough before she caught COVID...but now, it's TWICE as hot as before. She's safe now! LOL

SCantiGOP

(14,719 posts)
30. A friend of my daughter
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 04:10 PM
Sep 2022

Lost her 60 year old Father to Covid early on before vaccines were available.
She refuses to get a single shot, even though she works as a physical therapist.
“Stupid” doesn’t come close to describing her.

colorado_ufo

(6,252 posts)
38. My daughter is a doctor of physical therapy.
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 04:24 PM
Sep 2022

She is fully vaccinated. How does this woman's clinic allow her to practice unvaccinated?

SCantiGOP

(14,719 posts)
41. She is at a private facility
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 04:27 PM
Sep 2022

and they have no requirement.
Also, she is in SC while you live in the 20th Century.

McKim

(2,426 posts)
33. My daughter had a patient.....
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 04:18 PM
Sep 2022

My daughter had a patient who rejected COVID vaccinations because he thought it would make him infertile and he wanted to have more children. He got COVID and died later that year. She could not convince him to get vaccinated! Really really sad and frustrating!

Trueblue Texan

(4,465 posts)
35. It really is sad...
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 04:21 PM
Sep 2022

...but I can only take so much sadness and I've seen more than my share with COVID. These morons deserve what they get. Too bad they share what they deserve with innocent others--kinda like people who vote for Republicans.

colorado_ufo

(6,252 posts)
40. I think crap-pacity should be a word.
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 04:27 PM
Sep 2022

"At least he said he was from the CIA . . ." There's a sucker born every minute, as the old saying goes.

NewEnglandAutumn

(271 posts)
43. They are the same idiots
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 04:53 PM
Sep 2022

Who come into the pharmacy coughing and sweaty asking about covid testing (usually angry). Completely ignoring information online and posted on the door, to tell us they need a text NOW because they are dying. They also get angry about any questions regarding immunization status.

krkaufman

(13,961 posts)
44. Revealing characterization
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 04:56 PM
Sep 2022

Pretty great example of cognitive dissonance manifest in her “I won’t be pressured” response. She tosses out nonsense, you counter with very basic information and it’s perceived as “pressure.” The only pressure is what remains of her functioning brain trying to process information conflicting with the addictive narrative she’s been feeding on.

jerseyjim

(129 posts)
46. My EX-wife had an account on FB so...
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 05:03 PM
Sep 2022

I blocked her when I first created an account, but more recently decided to see what the "staunch" Lifelong Republican was up to.
Last year she posted a symbol with a Lion in the center of her profile picture, surrounded by the words "I did not get vaccinated. I am not a sheep"
She's dead now. NO CONDOLENCES, PLEASE. I've been happily married to someone with brains for 31 years.

Paradoxically, a sheep was exactly what she was, following her shepherd, D. Trump.

orleans

(36,919 posts)
47. welcome to du (i know it's been over a month, but still... welcome)
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 05:34 PM
Sep 2022

and thanks for sharing that.
no condolences.
but congratulations on those happy 31 years!

Aristus

(72,187 posts)
63. We required her to.
Sun Sep 4, 2022, 01:33 PM
Sep 2022

You don't wear a mask, you don't get into the clinic. We have packages of them that we give out to any patient who doesn't have one, and require them to wear it for the duration of their visit.

Even then, I still have to spend half my time telling patients: "Mask up over the nose..."

Marthe48

(23,175 posts)
55. I can't imagine the conversations she had going on in her head
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 07:01 PM
Sep 2022

Sounds like she probably had 2 or 3 chipping on comments, not filtered.

3catwoman3

(29,406 posts)
56. So many times over my 45 years in pediatrics did I do exactly...
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 09:03 PM
Sep 2022

...what you just related - brain saying one thing, mouth saying another. There were times when having to be diplomatic all the time was exhausting, and I often thought it might be fun to be a restaurant or movie critic so you could just say what you really thought AND get paid to do so.

Some years ago, I walked into an exam room to see a teenage boy with a history of asthma. I got about as far as saying "Hello" before his very stern-looking mother announced, "He won't use an inhaler, and he won't take any nasal sprays." I waited just a moment before replying, "Well, that's not going to leave me much to offer you." My brain was saying, "Then why the hell are you here?" This was before the days of any of the oral controller agents, so there really wasn't anything else.

Those who come in with their minds made up against vaccines are pretty much unreachable.

And she actually asked you if you knew what molecules are? Might have been interesting to say, "Why, no, I don't. Please tell me about them."

How refreshing that the next new patient was so rewarding to deal with.

TigressDem

(5,126 posts)
58. The Actual COVID/HIV link is FALSE Positive HIV reading and those trials are discontinued.
Sat Sep 3, 2022, 11:03 PM
Sep 2022

SO there is a tiny bit of truth in the antivaxxers's concern, but it was never released into general use after they got confusing results in the trials.

It was a different approach they thought would create a more robust antibody response and provide more stability.

NO ONE GOT HIV from it, but generated antibodies that could appear as an HIV protein that could generate a false positive HIV test result.



https://www.science.org/content/article/development-unique-australian-covid-19-vaccine-halted


Among current COVID-19 candidate vaccines, "the molecular clamp is a unique approach," says Adam Taylor, a virologist at Griffith University, Gold Coast, who was not affiliated with the vaccine development effort. He explains that like many COVID-19 vaccines, including the several that appear to have clear efficacy, the UQ-CSL candidate presents the SARS-CoV-2 spike so the human body will generate antibodies to the protein.

Spike plays a central role in SARS-CoV-2 infecting cells, folding and reconfiguring as it goes through the process of attaching to a receptor protein so the virus can fuse to a human cell. The molecular clamp approach centers on a prefusion configuration, which exposes parts of spike hidden in its postfusion form and may generate a more robust antibody response. But this conformation of the spike protein is unstable, so the Australian team introduced a bit of molecular material—the molecular clamp—to hold it in position. The UQ team found that a small 80-amino-acid fragment of an HIV protein provided this stability. (Other groups have introduced mutations into the gene for spike to create a more stable form.)

Unfortunately, that HIV fragment also generated antibodies that could confuse diagnostic tests. Researchers recognized the possibility that the HIV component might invoke an immune response. But, "It was unexpected that the levels induced would interfere with certain HIV tests," reads a joint statement announcing the halt of the candidate's development that was posted online by UQ and CSL.

DFW

(60,186 posts)
61. I don't know how you put up with it.
Sun Sep 4, 2022, 07:59 AM
Sep 2022

My response would have been, "fine, report me. I will be pleased to furnish the video tape of this interview."

I know, I know, illegal, doctor-patient confidentiality, etc. But if she is ignorant enough to spout off all the crap she did, she is probably ignorant enough to not know the doctor-patient confidentiality rules, either. Since there never was any tape, she can never prove you said it, either, and no board of physicians would believe you did, anyway.

LeftishBrit

(41,453 posts)
64. There are molecules in it!
Tue Sep 6, 2022, 03:49 PM
Sep 2022

Would be hilarious if not so sad.

So are you mollycoddling the molecules?

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