The DU Lounge
Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsOne of the reasons for my rotten day in clinic yesterday: An antivaxxer.
Now, all antivaxxers are full of crap. But I think this one was going for a crap-capacity world record.
New patient, primary care provider hunting. She said she had a hard time keeping a PCP, and now I know why. I didn't even bring up the subject of immunization; she did that on her own, coming out swinging, saying what she will and won't do for health maintenance. Parentheses are what I thought; italics are what I actually said.
"I don't do vaccines or immunizations or anything like that."
("Then why are you here, wasting your time and mine?" )
"I know there is a lot of misinformation about vaccines out there. I'll be happy to address your concerns."
"I saw this YouTube video with this guy from the CIA. At least, he said he was from the CIA. He says there are molecules in the COVID-19 vaccine. Do you know what molecules are?"
("Yes, because I stayed awake in fourth-grade science class!" )
"Yes, I know what molecules are."
"Well he said that the molecules in the COVID vaccine give you HIV."
("This is the stupidest shit I've ever heard in my life!" )
"Did he have any training in virology or immunology?"
"Umm..."
("That's what I thought." )
"The Journal of the AMA, the British Medical Journal, the New England Journal of Medicine, and the Journal of the AAPA all say the vaccines are safe, and - "
"I'M NOT GOING TO BE PRESSURED INTO THIS! What was your name again? I'm going to report you!"
I gave her my card, because all she is going to get from Admin about a provider with my experience is: 'We're sorry this happened. We'll look into it." She'll never hear from them again, and she can go back to looking for a quack who will agree with her bullshit.
These situations are so disheartening.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)Aristus
(72,187 posts)If you're sick, just find some whacko who will roll some chicken bones, recite an incantation, and maybe give you a plaster of horse dung, or something like that. If one is opposed to science, maybe don't go to a medical clinic, and definitely don't walk in to mine!
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)Response to Aristus (Reply #3)
catbyte This message was self-deleted by its author.
catbyte
(39,153 posts)So I clicked on it. Big mistake, lol. It was a 700-pound plus something woman who was supposed to be documenting her "weight loss journey", but all she managed to do was gain weight and became essentially bed-bound. Her "boyfriend," a serious alcoholic sponging off of her, went on a lengthy rant eschewing "Western Medicine" as a scam and vaccines are evil blah blah blah. The woman sat in her wheelchair, nodding in agreement. Several months later, her channel popped up again, so I decided to check on her "weight loss journey". She was in the hospital with untreated diabetes, cellulitis, kidney issues, and Covid. She had been there for months, and her alcoholic boyfriend was with her every day. So much for denouncing "Western medicine." And even though she was put on a diet, her "boyfriend" brought her takeout every day, so she managed to gain weight. Sometimes people are just beyond help. Good luck to them.
I have so much respect for you and your colleagues who have to put up with this kind of crap on a regular basis. You are appreciated more than you know.
evolves
(5,837 posts)Why ask for medical help if you are not going to heed the recommendations?
bluestarone
(22,179 posts)If their faith is STRONG, then stay home and believe, trust, then die! it's that easy. (most want end of the world anyhow)
Turbineguy
(40,076 posts)A guy could make some money by buying peasant insurance on these types.
Ocelot II
(130,537 posts)because you have to bite your tongue and refrain from telling them they are not only weapons-grade stupid but an actual menace to society. I couldn't do your job; I'm not such a nice person.
Aristus
(72,187 posts)The very next patient after her was also a new patient, and he was the nicest, sweetest guy in the world. I really liked our visit, and I think he has a new medical home for his care.
Trueblue Texan
(4,465 posts)keep from pissing himself laughing! LOL!!!
uppityperson
(116,020 posts)Conjuay
(3,067 posts)Boy oh boy, NEVER AGAIN!
evolves
(5,837 posts)for them damn molecules!
Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)Habitation
(5,717 posts)into the atmosphere by those giant windmills.
Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)What is CCCCC you ask? ... Chronic China-Caused Covid Cancer
Trueblue Texan
(4,465 posts)elleng
(141,926 posts)("Yes, because I stayed awake in fourth-grade science class!" )
soldierant
(9,354 posts)and I still know what molecules are.
SWBTATTReg
(26,257 posts)that a shot could have prevented easily, begging the doctor(s) and / or nurse(s) for the shot(s) to save their lives.
SMH.
These situations are heartbreaking but there are a lot more people that do appreciate your advice and help, remember that. I do and I appreciate the help and kindness that you and others in your field, despite the challenges that have been thrown at you during these (in particular) last several years, and yet you all are troopers, still there to help.
Midnight Writer
(25,410 posts)She said when a patient walks into the clinic, you never know what kind of behavior you may encounter.
But when a patient comes in asking for a Covid vaccine, you nearly always deal with someone who is reasonable and pleasant.
IrishAfricanAmerican
(4,471 posts)Timeflyer
(3,757 posts)who are long gone after they infect a vulnerable person. Wish there were anti-vaxxer colonies where they could be isolated like lepers.
OMGWTF
(5,131 posts)and physicist Neil DeGrasse Tyson (who does math) said it could be enough to sway some elections to the Dems. There are still over 400 Americans a day dying from Covid. Guessing (hoping) most of them are Rs.
MyOwnPeace
(17,557 posts)When you're down to your last 2 weeks before retiring - you'll get yet another patient like this.
You will then have some really fine 'options' - and you won't even have to just 'think' them!
First off, you will have NO reason to hold back on the very same phrases you 'thought' - what the hell, SAY THEM!!!!
Others could include:
1. "I'm sorry - this is not where you would go for a 'psyc. eval.'"
2. "You're NUTS! Get out of here!"
3. Or, if you're STILL willing to be calm, polite, and wanting to 'deliver' your message: "I think you would be happier being tended to by someone that doesn't know a damned thing about medicine and would be quite willing to take your money."
But, in the meantime - be cool - continue to help those that want and need your help - and know that you are doing a wonderful thing for society!
Aristus
(72,187 posts)Im looking forward to putting it, literally, into practice.
I dont know if Im still early in my career. I got my license to practice medicine as a PA at the age of forty-one. Im fifty-three now, and can see working for maybe another fifteen years or so.
multigraincracker
(37,651 posts)It was acting strange?
You dont do vaccines?
Shall I call the guys in white jackets?
cyclonefence
(5,151 posts)I had polio in 1954, just before the Salk vaccine was available. There were lines blocks long to get vaccinated against this horrible disease, and no one questioned its safety or mysterious powers in its molecules. Everyone got vaccinated; they were terrified of polio.
There are now outbreaks of polio in the US, not confined to isolated religious communities where the chance of spread to the general population is small. I wonder if the rise of the anti-vaxxers who refuse to get their babies vaccinated against polio are responsible.
The internet, plus poor education in science and civics.
Chellee
(2,300 posts)People used to be afraid of disease because everyone knew a family that had lost a child to measles, polio, diphtheria, etc. Because of vaccines it's been several generations since those types of diseases were commonplace. The people who remember don't talk about it, and the people who don't know, can't imagine it.
Now people are afraid of accidents. Things like car crashes, and untended pools, because those are the things that could unexpectedly take their children. It doesn't occur to them that their perfectly healthy, happy child could develop a fever, and two days later they could be asked to make funeral arrangements.
I think you're absolutely right. The rise in polio is directly correlated to the rise in anti-vaxxers. It's not smallpox. These diseases weren't eradicated, they were just beaten into submission. But they're out there, just waiting for an opportunity to do what disease does, which is spread.
The truly sad part is that some of them are going to lose their children. Children that don't have to die.
Also, shoutout to antibiotics and antivirals. Between them and vaccines, death by disease, at least in first world countries, has plummeted over the last half century. Science has brought us so much, and to turn your back on it because you refuse to learn your own species history is just so. freaking. sad. And frustrating, and infuriating, and, and, and.
cyclonefence
(5,151 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,906 posts)YouTube is full of people wearing lab coats willing to dispense medical advice, right?
Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)This woman just might be one of them, before too long.
Tadpole Raisin
(1,977 posts)Its the only way you can get through the day dealing with them.
Then they do what they want anyway, but come to the hospital when they f$&@# up and blame the medical system for the problem they created or ignored.
After seeing half a country actively reject wearing a mask during a pandemic, I would like to apologize to the filmmakers of every horror movie ever made for calling their characters unbelievably dumb for going into the murder basement.
FakeNoose
(41,634 posts)I think he'll be back in practice again, real soon. He buys all that stuff.
Chellee
(2,300 posts)Demobrat
(10,299 posts)Did she have symptoms of some sort? Was she just looking for attention?
Sorry you have to waste your time on someone like that, when there are so many in desperate need of someone like you.
Aristus
(72,187 posts)Her therapist told her she needs a primary care provider. Presumably to prescribe recommended medications. Therapists who dont have prescriptive authority do that a lot.
CCExile
(524 posts)And coloidal silver can prevent you ever even GETTING molecules in the first place! Damn you, MSMM (Main Stream Medical Mendicants)! /s
Trueblue Texan
(4,465 posts)...my sister-in-law has some crap she made from habanero peppers that won't let ANYTHING live in your system...she just didn't make it quite hot enough before she caught COVID...but now, it's TWICE as hot as before. She's safe now! LOL
Trueblue Texan
(4,465 posts)...but DAMN! Those people are hilariously STUPID!!
SCantiGOP
(14,719 posts)Lost her 60 year old Father to Covid early on before vaccines were available.
She refuses to get a single shot, even though she works as a physical therapist.
Stupid doesnt come close to describing her.
colorado_ufo
(6,252 posts)She is fully vaccinated. How does this woman's clinic allow her to practice unvaccinated?
SCantiGOP
(14,719 posts)and they have no requirement.
Also, she is in SC while you live in the 20th Century.
McKim
(2,426 posts)My daughter had a patient who rejected COVID vaccinations because he thought it would make him infertile and he wanted to have more children. He got COVID and died later that year. She could not convince him to get vaccinated! Really really sad and frustrating!
Trueblue Texan
(4,465 posts)...but I can only take so much sadness and I've seen more than my share with COVID. These morons deserve what they get. Too bad they share what they deserve with innocent others--kinda like people who vote for Republicans.
IronLionZion
(51,269 posts)colorado_ufo
(6,252 posts)"At least he said he was from the CIA . . ." There's a sucker born every minute, as the old saying goes.
NewEnglandAutumn
(271 posts)Who come into the pharmacy coughing and sweaty asking about covid testing (usually angry). Completely ignoring information online and posted on the door, to tell us they need a text NOW because they are dying. They also get angry about any questions regarding immunization status.
krkaufman
(13,961 posts)Pretty great example of cognitive dissonance manifest in her I wont be pressured response. She tosses out nonsense, you counter with very basic information and its perceived as pressure. The only pressure is what remains of her functioning brain trying to process information conflicting with the addictive narrative shes been feeding on.
Marthe48
(23,175 posts)sometime in September
Aristus
(72,187 posts)Marthe48
(23,175 posts)lol
jerseyjim
(129 posts)I blocked her when I first created an account, but more recently decided to see what the "staunch" Lifelong Republican was up to.
Last year she posted a symbol with a Lion in the center of her profile picture, surrounded by the words "I did not get vaccinated. I am not a sheep"
She's dead now. NO CONDOLENCES, PLEASE. I've been happily married to someone with brains for 31 years.
Paradoxically, a sheep was exactly what she was, following her shepherd, D. Trump.
orleans
(36,919 posts)and thanks for sharing that.
no condolences.
but congratulations on those happy 31 years!
Skittles
(171,716 posts)I honestly think that is what it's all about.
Emile
(42,289 posts)Aristus
(72,187 posts)You don't wear a mask, you don't get into the clinic. We have packages of them that we give out to any patient who doesn't have one, and require them to wear it for the duration of their visit.
Even then, I still have to spend half my time telling patients: "Mask up over the nose..."
Marthe48
(23,175 posts)Sounds like she probably had 2 or 3 chipping on comments, not filtered.
3catwoman3
(29,406 posts)...what you just related - brain saying one thing, mouth saying another. There were times when having to be diplomatic all the time was exhausting, and I often thought it might be fun to be a restaurant or movie critic so you could just say what you really thought AND get paid to do so.
Some years ago, I walked into an exam room to see a teenage boy with a history of asthma. I got about as far as saying "Hello" before his very stern-looking mother announced, "He won't use an inhaler, and he won't take any nasal sprays." I waited just a moment before replying, "Well, that's not going to leave me much to offer you." My brain was saying, "Then why the hell are you here?" This was before the days of any of the oral controller agents, so there really wasn't anything else.
Those who come in with their minds made up against vaccines are pretty much unreachable.
And she actually asked you if you knew what molecules are?
Might have been interesting to say, "Why, no, I don't. Please tell me about them."
How refreshing that the next new patient was so rewarding to deal with.
TigressDem
(5,126 posts)SO there is a tiny bit of truth in the antivaxxers's concern, but it was never released into general use after they got confusing results in the trials.
It was a different approach they thought would create a more robust antibody response and provide more stability.
NO ONE GOT HIV from it, but generated antibodies that could appear as an HIV protein that could generate a false positive HIV test result.
https://www.science.org/content/article/development-unique-australian-covid-19-vaccine-halted
Among current COVID-19 candidate vaccines, "the molecular clamp is a unique approach," says Adam Taylor, a virologist at Griffith University, Gold Coast, who was not affiliated with the vaccine development effort. He explains that like many COVID-19 vaccines, including the several that appear to have clear efficacy, the UQ-CSL candidate presents the SARS-CoV-2 spike so the human body will generate antibodies to the protein.
Spike plays a central role in SARS-CoV-2 infecting cells, folding and reconfiguring as it goes through the process of attaching to a receptor protein so the virus can fuse to a human cell. The molecular clamp approach centers on a prefusion configuration, which exposes parts of spike hidden in its postfusion form and may generate a more robust antibody response. But this conformation of the spike protein is unstable, so the Australian team introduced a bit of molecular materialthe molecular clampto hold it in position. The UQ team found that a small 80-amino-acid fragment of an HIV protein provided this stability. (Other groups have introduced mutations into the gene for spike to create a more stable form.)
Unfortunately, that HIV fragment also generated antibodies that could confuse diagnostic tests. Researchers recognized the possibility that the HIV component might invoke an immune response. But, "It was unexpected that the levels induced would interfere with certain HIV tests," reads a joint statement announcing the halt of the candidate's development that was posted online by UQ and CSL.
DFW
(60,186 posts)My response would have been, "fine, report me. I will be pleased to furnish the video tape of this interview."
I know, I know, illegal, doctor-patient confidentiality, etc. But if she is ignorant enough to spout off all the crap she did, she is probably ignorant enough to not know the doctor-patient confidentiality rules, either. Since there never was any tape, she can never prove you said it, either, and no board of physicians would believe you did, anyway.
LeftishBrit
(41,453 posts)Would be hilarious if not so sad.
So are you mollycoddling the molecules?
Aristus
(72,187 posts)we're not exactly forming a bond...