Question about betting

[NJCher]

I've never bet anything and I know zero about the topic. I suspect this is a stupid question. Common sense kinda' tells me the answer, but I'd like to get additional opinion.

I'm reading a book and in the book, a gambler has trouble getting a bookie. First the bookies try rearranging the odds of what they'll pay out. But eventually, nobody will take his business.

Background of the gambler: genius-level person who carefully studies his bets. Selective at what he bets on.

Poker, mostly horses.

My question is: if you are a successful bettor, do bookies not want your business?

[Hugh_Lebowski]

1. Bookies operate outside the law so they can NOT work with whoever they don't want to

For whatever reason suits them.

There's no recourse for the gambler, so sure ... some bookies will cut you off for winning too much and there's not shit you can do about it.

If you gamble legally you won't get cut off unless you break certain specified legal gaming rules.

[NJCher]

4. thanks, Hugh

I think this took place before legal betting; I'll check. In 1971, NY legalized off-track betting and this may have been before that.

In one place in the book, he'd negotiated 30-1 odds instead of the standard 20-1, and when he won, he went to the bookie's place of business to collect. The bookie wasn't in and the staff wouldn't pay out without the bookie there, so the gambler returned the next day.

The next day he came in to get his $$ but the staff looked scared. They suggested he take the smaller amount. Then the bookie came out of the back and had some guys throw him out.

It doesn't really say whether he forfeited the entire amount for having the nerve to ask for his 30-1 payment.

From reading the book, it sorta' seems like if you're really good at this, bookies won't take your business.

I don't know how that would work with legalized betting. As I get through the book, though, that might be explained.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

6. Okay small disconnect on my part, I'm from California

And at least for most of my life there, anyone you'd refer to as a 'bookie' is just random Joe who's running an illegal operation.

Not sure what the rules are for people who make book within a legal framework. I'd imagine you have to have a business and other assorted licenses and agree to abide by certain conduct rules specified by the track itself (and government regs) ... but I'm not sure what those are as it relates to the matter at hand.

It may not be technically legal for them to offer different odds than the ones that the track specifies for people who are physically betting at the kiosk at the track. That probably depends on the State you're in though.

And there may be rules about who/when/why they 'cut someone off'. But even if there are, not sure how easy it is to force 'the house' to allow you to wager.

[underpants]

2. If it's too much for the bookie to cover - yes

Bookies make a fee per bet. Their goal is to have equal money bet on each team. As long as they can cover (pay) winnings with the losings (almost always more losers) they keep the difference PLUS the fees. If they aren’t covering then their odds or point spreads are wrong.


KEY TAKEAWAYS
The term “bookie“ is slang for “bookmaker.“
A bookie places bets for customers, usually on sporting events. They also set odds and pay out winnings on behalf of other people.
The bookie’s goal is to maintain balance in the books by adjusting the odds as much as possible to maintain an even amount of people betting on a win or loss.
Understanding Bookies
Bookies do not usually make their money by placing bets themselves; rather, they charge a transaction fee on their customers’ bets known as the “vigorish” (“vig” for short). Bookies may also lend money to bettors. A bookie can be an individual or an organization.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bookie.asp

[mercuryblues]

3. No, they do not want winners

They have to pay out to winners-the bookie loses money on them.

say I bet $5.00 on a horse with 6 to 5 odds. The bookie has to pay me $6 dollars in profit for every dollar bet. IOW they lose money.

If the horse loses the race the bookie keeps the money.

Another reason bookies don't take your bet is if you owe them too much money.

[MichMan]

7. You are ignoring all the bets placed by those choosing a different horse.

Sure, they have to pay out on a winner, most people don't win.

[mercuryblues]

8. That doesn't matter to a bookie

Bookies are in the business of making money, they don't want to pay out at all. This guy picks winners, they don't want his bets.

[MichMan]

9. Why would they accept bets on Football and Basketball games then?

Roughly half of the people betting win.

Yet, those games make up the majority all of the bets placed.

[mercuryblues]

11. Because the people making those bets

aren't known winners. IOW they lose more bets than they win, in the long term the bookie makes a profit off them. This guy wins more than he loses, bookies take a loss on him.

You are looking at the odds the wrong way. If a bookie takes 50% bets on each team, he is still making money. There are still 50% of the betters that lost. That 50% is pure profit, out of which he pays the winners. Say I placed $50 on 4 games. I win 2 and lose 2 The bookie has made money of me. The 2 games I win, the bookie pays me $30. The 2 I lost I pay him $100. The bookie made $70. Maybe the next week I get really lucky and pick 4 winners. Only the next week I pick 3 losers. In the long term the bookie is making money off me.


The successful bettor does the same, only he wins 3 of the 4 games. The bookie pays him $90, and he pays the bookie $50. The bookie lost $40. This guy does this daily; how long do you think a bookie will continue to take his bets?

If they know a guy selects mostly winners that eats into their profit. Over the long term they will be paying him more than he pays them.

[NJCher]

5. thanks, everybody

and for the links, too.

This book is totally beyond my experience, so I am having to look up a lot of terms. For example, what a "maiden" is. And I thought the writer mispelled "mutuel," but in the betting world, that's correct: mutuel.

It's a whole subculture.

I guess what I find most fascinating is that the character has the brains to beat the system and does so. That is always a popular story.

[unblock]

10. Generally the house takes a fee then redistributes all the rest to the winners

So imagine a horse race where 100 people each bet $1.

The house takes $5 then returns $95 to the winning bettors. If the winning horse has only one bettor, that person wins $95 and we say it paid 94-1 (the bet back plus $94 profit)

If the winning horse has 5 bettors, each would get $19, etc.

Horse racing odds aren't final until all the bets are in, so the house can shift the odds to eliminate any risk to the house.

That's not the same with roulette, where there are 38 possible numbers to hit. Each one pays 35-1. On any single bet, the house can lose, but over the course of a large number of bets and players, the house will pretty consistently collect about $38 for every $36 it pays out.


A bookie takes more risk because the usually have to promise odds before all the bets are in. They could lose (or win) extra if they get the final odds wrong. Of course, they charge more to take this risk.