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highplainsdem

(48,919 posts)
Sun Sep 25, 2022, 02:29 PM Sep 2022

Did you ever hear of Indorock? The Tielman Brothers?

Last edited Sun Sep 25, 2022, 03:24 PM - Edit history (1)

I hadn't, till I ran across posts about them the other day on Steve Hoffman's music forum.

The Tielman Brothers, all actually brothers, were born in Indonesia in the 1930s and moved to the Netherlands, to The Hague, in the 1950s. They became very popular all over Europe, influencing other artists. The Beatles went to see them when they were playing in Germany, and their fans included Dutch artists, especially Jan Akkerman (Focus) and Golden Earring.

The Tielman Brothers were brilliant. Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tielman_Brothers and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Tielman and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indorock .

Four videos below. This first one is what may be their most famous TV appearance, in 1960.




This second video is their song that's generally considered the first Dutch rock and roll hit.




And two videos showing how great Andy Tielman continued to be as he got older. Don't have a date for that performance of "Blue Bayou." The second video below shows him talking about their first Dutch hit on the TV show DWDD (De Wereld Draait Door), and performing it live. Not sure of the date of the show, but it didn't start airing till 2005, so the 2008 date that video was uploaded to YouTube might be the date it was broadcast. Andy Tielman died in 2011.




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Did you ever hear of Indorock? The Tielman Brothers? (Original Post) highplainsdem Sep 2022 OP
Excellent. Fun. Interesting background stuff, especially Indorock origins. quaint Sep 2022 #1
Thanks! As I said in the OP, I'm just learning about them myself, but I'm really impressed highplainsdem Sep 2022 #2
Copying moves seems like a tribute, considering the guitars and all. quaint Sep 2022 #3
Barry Hay did at least one broadcast tribute for Andy Tielman, according to highplainsdem Sep 2022 #4
Re all the info on the guitar in the reply above... highplainsdem Sep 2022 #6
I love hearing about the guitars. quaint Sep 2022 #8
And I forgot yesterday to include a video as an example of when George Kooymans was highplainsdem Sep 2022 #7
Finally got what Barry Hay said about the Tielmans typed into Google Translate. highplainsdem Sep 2022 #12
Wow, thanks quaint Sep 2022 #13
You're welcome! Sorry I didn't get that done last night, highplainsdem Sep 2022 #14
Andy Tielman, 2-hour concert in Scheveningen NL in 2004, when he was 68: highplainsdem Sep 2022 #5
Would it be this list? quaint Sep 2022 #9
Yes, that looks like it! Thank you! highplainsdem Sep 2022 #10
I appreciated the Hawaiian influence. quaint Sep 2022 #11
Link to a web page with some more history on Indo artists and Dutch popular music: highplainsdem Sep 2022 #15
Lots of interesting material. quaint Sep 2022 #16
Evocative 6-minute "Memories of Andy" video with shorter clips of old TV shows, footage from highplainsdem Sep 2022 #17
Strong Chuck Berry influence there. n/t malthaussen Sep 2022 #18

highplainsdem

(48,919 posts)
2. Thanks! As I said in the OP, I'm just learning about them myself, but I'm really impressed
Sun Sep 25, 2022, 04:30 PM
Sep 2022

by what I've seen and heard so far.

And I edited the OP after first posting it to link to Wikipedia's article on Andy Tielman, and to remove the word-in-parentheses probably from the earlier paragraph about Dutch artists influenced by the Tielman brothers, where I'd said they probably influenced Golden Earring. A fan on Steve Hoffman's forum had noted that George Kooymans had apparently copied many of Andy Tielman's moves, and I had to agree after seeing the first video above. But I hadn't yet heard or read anything mentioning him as an influence on them, though the members of Golden Earring, who grew up in The Hague, couldn't have been unaware of them, and I read somewhere that George was taken along to clubs by an older relative when he was a kid (George had started playing guitar in 1956, when he was 8). Then I saw GE lead singer Barry Hay mentioned in that Wikipedia article about Andy. And I did more googling and found out that the guitar George had used when recording "Radar Love" was one that had previously belonged to Andy; George had bought it in 1969. (George had another guitar just like it, a spare, but he sold that in 1976 and Joe Bonamassa acquired that recently.)

highplainsdem

(48,919 posts)
4. Barry Hay did at least one broadcast tribute for Andy Tielman, according to
Mon Sep 26, 2022, 12:06 AM
Sep 2022

more sources I found online since I posted that last reply. He also wrote about the Tielman Brothers in his autobiography. I'll try to get some of that translated from the Dutch tomorrow. Too tired to type it into Google Translate tonight.

And I found a discussion on a Les Paul forum about that guitar George bought - https://lespaulforum.com/index.php?threads/three-pickup-custom-played-on-radar-love.175719 - and according to Dutch guitarist Peter van Dorst, a friend of George's who was posting there, George had bought the guitar from Reggie Tielman, Andy's brother. In which case it might be that black guitar you see in the first video in the OP. See this 1975 video from Winterland (guitar solo starting at 3:15):



This page of photos Joe Bonamassa posted on Facebook - https://facebook.com/JoeBonamassa/posts/10158620602649659 - shows the spare Les Paul that George had sold in 1976 and Joe had just bought, as well as a photo of George holding the same Les Paul as in the Winterland video. The three pickups look different because George had uncovered the black bobbins on the guitar he was using, the one bought from Reggie Tielman, and apparently left them covered on the spare guitar he sold in 1976 and Joe bought a couple of years ago.

Same guitar in this 1971 video, from a Dutch TV appearance. You get an especially good view of the guitar starting at 1:40:



highplainsdem

(48,919 posts)
6. Re all the info on the guitar in the reply above...
Mon Sep 26, 2022, 12:24 PM
Sep 2022

The '59 Les Paul that George Kooymans used for so many recording sessions, concerts and videos was already an important part of rock history, especially in continental Europe, most especially in the Netherlands.

But finding out it had belonged to the Tielman Brothers, and how important they were, makes it even more important.

quaint

(2,552 posts)
8. I love hearing about the guitars.
Mon Sep 26, 2022, 01:02 PM
Sep 2022

Unfortunately, my personal knowledge comprises sounds great, looks pretty.

highplainsdem

(48,919 posts)
7. And I forgot yesterday to include a video as an example of when George Kooymans was
Mon Sep 26, 2022, 12:33 PM
Sep 2022

Last edited Mon Sep 26, 2022, 04:41 PM - Edit history (1)

apparently copying the Tielman Brothers' moves. He hadn't been doing so during either of the songs I posted video from yesterday, showing that guitar.

Those moves tended to show up when he was doing songs with a '50s/rockabilly influence.

Like this one, from 1980:



highplainsdem

(48,919 posts)
12. Finally got what Barry Hay said about the Tielmans typed into Google Translate.
Mon Sep 26, 2022, 03:28 PM
Sep 2022

This is from Hay: Biografie van de grootste rockster van Nederland by Sander Donkers and Barry Hay. That subtitle translates as Biography of the biggest rock star in the Netherlands. It's possible Barry's publisher insisted on the title, but Barry's never lacked for self esteem, either.

Anyway, from the book, English translation first, then the Dutch I copied into Google Translate:

Then he starts talking about The Hague in the first half of the Sixties. 'It was a hotbed of musical activities, much more vibrant than Amsterdam, for example. In Scheveningen you had a whole row of tents and there was live music everywhere. You had the Palais de Danse, the Pam Pam, the Beat Club, the Top Ten. You had the roller skating rinks: the Squirrel and the Marathon, later the Jumbo Bar was added. It was a really great period.

The fact that The Hague had such an advantage was, of course, because there were so many Indos living there. They were the great pioneers, with their Indo-rock. The Fire-Devils, The Timebreakers, The Tielman Brothers of course, even if they came from Breda. They all played great. All the Dutch boys who later ended up in music looked at those tapes and thought; I want that too. We drew on them.

The first time I saw The Tielman Brothers play, at the Palais de Danse: man! I was still too young, I wasn't actually allowed in. But I had put on a neat jacket and put on a deep voice. "Just have apple juice." You were still sitting at tables, there were waiters walking around. And those Tielmans completely demolished the tent. The guests were crazy.

Much later I wrote down that experience in a booklet about that time, after which Andy Tielman called me. Fantastic to talk to him. He loved that I wrote that we owe everything to the Indos. But that's just how it was. Without them, The Hague would never have become the beat city in my opinion.





Warna hij begint over het Den Haag in de eerste helft van de jaren zestig. 'Het was een broeinest van muzikale activiteiten, veel bruisender dan bijvoorbeeld Amsterdam. In Scheveningen had je een hele rij tenten en overal was er livemuziek. Je had het Palais de Danse, de Pam Pam, de Beat Club, de Top Ten. Je had de rolschaatsbanen: de Eekhoorn en de Marathon, later kwam de Jumbo Bar erbij. Het was echt een geweldige periode.

Dat Den Haag zo'n voorsprong had, kwam natuurlijk doordat er zoveel Indo's woonden. Zij waren de grote voortrekkers, met hun Indo-rock. The Fire-Devils, The Timebreakers, The Tielman Brothers natuurlijk, al kwamen die dan uit Breda. Ze konden allemaal fantastisch spelen. Alle Hollandse jongens die later in de muziek terecht zijn gekomen, keken naar die bandjes en dachten; dat wil ik ook. We trokken ons aan hen op.

De eerste keer dat ik The Tielman Brothers zag spelen, in het Palais de Danse: man! Ik was nog te jong, mocht eigenlijk niet naar binnen. Maar ik had een net jasje aangetrokken en zette een zware stem op. "Doe maar appelsap." Je zat er nog aan tafeltjes, er liepen kelners rond. En die Tielmans braken de tent helemaal af. De gasten waren te gek.

Veel later heb ik die ervaring nog eens opgeschreven in een boekje over die tijd, waarna Andy Tielman me belde. Fantastisch om hem te spreken. Hij vond het geweldig dat ik had geschreven dat we alles aan de Indo's te danken hadden. Maar zo was het gewoon. Zonder hen was Den Haag volgens mij nooit de beatstad geworden.

highplainsdem

(48,919 posts)
14. You're welcome! Sorry I didn't get that done last night,
Mon Sep 26, 2022, 05:09 PM
Sep 2022

but it was late and it's impossible to copy and paste text from Google Books ( at least I've never found a way to do so). So I had to type in all that Dutch text, perfectly, since typos can ruin the translation. I type about 80 wpm typing my own thoughts. Copying anything in English will cut that typing speed by about 75%. Copying text in a foreign language probably slows it down by another 75%. But I did want to know what Barry had said.

George might have said something about the Tielmans in his book about his music and songwriting. But like Barry's book, it's available only in Dutch.

I'd like to read both books, but there's no way I'm going to type them into Google Translate.

highplainsdem

(48,919 posts)
5. Andy Tielman, 2-hour concert in Scheveningen NL in 2004, when he was 68:
Mon Sep 26, 2022, 12:18 PM
Sep 2022

No setlist for this, unfortunately, and I checked a few other sites as well as the YouTube description and comments.

He still sounded fantastic at 68. So good that even though I hadn't planned on listening to all of this now, when he started playing guitar at about 2:50, it gave me goosebumps, and I'm still listening and occasionally watching.

You can also hear some of the influence of Hawaiian music, which had been an important element of Indonesian rock.

quaint

(2,552 posts)
9. Would it be this list?
Mon Sep 26, 2022, 01:13 PM
Sep 2022
That's My Life - Live at Kurhaus Scheveningen (DVD)

01 That's My Life
02 Bolélé Bo
03 Black Eyes
04 Pretend
05 Return To Me
06 Guitar Boogie
07 Love Is A Many Splendored Thing
08 Les Paul Guitar
09 Alright Mama
10 You're Still The One
11 Swing It Up
12 Bengawan Solo
13 Ajo Mama
14 Amen Sitting In The Ya Ya
15 Poor People
16 Loraine Jane
17 Release Me
18 You'll Never Find/Green Green Gras Of Home
19 18th Century Rock
20 Little Bird
21 Loving You
22 My Bonny
23 Blue Bayou
24 Whole Lotta Shaking
25 One Night
26 Blue Suede Shoes
27 Are You Lonesome Tonight
28 Instrumental Medley
29 Glory Hallelujah
30 My Way
31 Glory Hallelujah
32 My Way
33 Glory Hallelujah
34 That's My Life

quaint

(2,552 posts)
11. I appreciated the Hawaiian influence.
Mon Sep 26, 2022, 01:28 PM
Sep 2022

I listened to a lot of traditional Hawaiian music when I hospiced my late husband's mother so I get a sweet memory from just a little. For some reason (probably a dude), my older sister listened to Martin Denny all the time, so Hawaiian music lives in my soul, like rock.

highplainsdem

(48,919 posts)
17. Evocative 6-minute "Memories of Andy" video with shorter clips of old TV shows, footage from
Thu Sep 29, 2022, 12:58 PM
Sep 2022

Indonesia and Australia, Andy shopping for a new guitar, etc. All the music you hear is his, of course.

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