Neil deGrasse Tyson. I was cruising around YouTube last nite and found an interesting

[Ferrets are Cool]

piece which contained this musing by Tyson. To paraphrase, he said, Intelligence is just the thing you want IF you intend to render yourself extinct. I found that so profound.
I couldn't find the exact quote this morning, but I did find something from him that meshed into that thought.

Neil deGrasse Tyson "I think that intelligence is such a narrow branch of the tree of life - this branch of primates we call humans. No other animal, by our definition, can be considered intelligent. So intelligence can't be all that important for survival, because there are so many animals that don't have what we call intelligence, and they're surviving just fine."

I am constantly reminded that we are actively causing the extinction of so many species on this ball we call Earth. WHY? IMO, in my mind, it is because we are imbued with intelligence. To me, that is the penultimate irony.

[Aviation Pro]

1. We dig up stuff out of the ground

That was never meant to see the light of day.

How is this intelligent?

[paleotn]

7. One of the theories behind the Permo-Triassic extinction event....

Coal seams laid down in prior eras were ignited by magma intrusion connected with the Siberian Traps mass eruption, releasing gigantic amounts of CO2. Whether that was the primary factor, a contributing factor or the "undertaker" in the Permian Extinction is up for debate, but we all know it didn't end well for life on earth.

https://beta.nsf.gov/news/volcanic-coal-burning-siberia-led-climate-change

[CrispyQ]

2. "Our big brain will save us." --humanity

We're pretty damned proud of it, that's for sure.

[somaticexperiencing]

3. it's not intelligence, it's the reliance on brain intelligence to the exclusion and subjugation of

other intelligences, like "organic intelligence".

The brain detached from nature is a very violent thing.

https://organicintelligence.org/

[markodochartaigh]

4. What, really, is intelligence.

Is intelligence the ability to advance cognitively until the species destroys the biosphere? Or is intelligence the ability to live in balance with the biosphere indefinitely?

[paleotn]

14. Intelligence: A group of cognitive abilities allowing humans to act on our environment

independent of instincts written into our DNA. For most life forms, behavior is purely instinctual. Some possess a few higher congnitive abilities, but none that we know of possess the full suite humans do. But, humans still possess instinctual behaviors that confound our cognitive abilities leading to all sorts of problems, particularly for every other life form on the planet.

[stopdiggin]

19. now THAT is well said. +1. . -(nt)-

[dchill]

5. "...penultimate irony."

Holy shit. What a turn of phrase.

[Ilsa]

6. I don't know if NDT used the term

"penultimate", but it doesn't mean what he thinks it means, unless I misunderstood the irony he was declaring.

(penultimate means “next to last” or “second to last.”)

[NJCher]

11. right, maybe

meant simply "ultimate."

[Ferrets are Cool]

22. You are correct. Thank you.

I thought it meant "the last one", but instead means what you said. My bad.

[machoneman]

8. Animals can't build atomic weapons that could wipe out all living things on Earth. Nor can they add

pollution to our air, water, earth. They also don't do mass killings with guns. Odd how many say they aren't intelligent yet we are. A sad truth!

[tiredtoo]

9. My thoughts

If there really is a God, she is sitting back laughing as she watches us destroy each other and this beautiful planet she provided for us.

[intheflow]

10. Intelligence isn't the problem, Western hubris is.

I'm reading Braiding Sweetgrass: Indigenous Wisdom, Scientific Knowledge and the Teaching of Plants by Dr. Robin Wall Kimmerer, a Potawatomi professor of botany in the SUNY system. Native Americans are intelligent, and their intelligence led them to understand the world around them in literal relative terms; that is, they understand themselves in relationship with the natural world around us, in kinship with it. With that, they lived happy and productive lives in harmony with nature for centuries before Europeans arrived.

It's not our intelligence but Western hubris that placed humans apart from nature, and nature as a means only to enrich oneself, that has put us in this spot. And, yes, I mean Western hubris because Western nations were the first to industrialize while almost completely gaslighting indigenous intelligence as ignorant.

BTW, I highly recommend Braiding Sweetgrass, which is not a rant against Western civilization, but a thoughtful blend of scientific and indigenous knowledge about the interconnected nature of the world. Indeed, from the author's POV, contemporary western science is coming to understand Earth's natural world as much more "intelligent" than humans have given it credit for, such as trees being able to "speak" with one another through chemicals and mycelia. It's an enlightening book and should be required reading for every high school and college science student.

[NJCher]

15. I love this book and her philosophy

Hippywife recommended it to me, since she knows of my interest in gardening. I ordered both the mp3 and the book. I listen to the audiobook while gardening, which is such a wonderful experience. Me, alone in the garden at this time of year, and Dr. Kimmerer. I could listen to it over and over because it is so profound.

While I live in NJ now, I was raised near an Indian reservation and our parents taught us a deep respect for the Indian philosophy of land, sharing, reciprocity to the earth, and just in general, learning from nature.

They also taught us the real history of our relationship with the Indians. Take that CRT people. I turned out OK, but the history deeply saddens me.

My mother knew Indian remedies using wildflowers and herbs, which she taught me.

I hope others will check out this book.

[PaulnFortWorth]

12. Are We THAT Dumb?

As much as I admire Neil deGrasse Tyson, I disagree with him on this. What will kill our species is Greed; the fossil fuel industry is bribing politicians for short term financial gain but long term disaster.

If we put a cap on how much large companies can bribe politicians then politicians would make decisions "Of the People, By the People, For the People" instead of corporate greed.

The strength of Democracy is everybody gets to vote. But that includes people we disagree with, criminals, perverts and other "bad" people. But republicans have taken the narrative of voting for policies thru the politicians to voting with malice toward others.

Instead of holding up politicians as saviors we should be focusing on policies. But mass media is fixated on INCITE and EXCITE on mass and social platforms. fox news doesn't have to verify anything they broadcast because they're an ENTERTAINMENT channel, not news. Most fox viewers don't realize that.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

13. Humanity is not going extinct. It will evolve, may evolve to a sub-intelligent primate

It might also evolve to some transhuman hyperintelligent hybrid or remain carbon-molecular but almost immortal.

The real question is: what level of mass species extinction our era will wreak (since Industrial Revolution, going forward)?

[Ferrets are Cool]

23. You may be correct. I just recently found out about ALL TOMORROW'S and am facinated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Tomorrows

[c-rational]

16. A very interesting theory/observation. Thanks for sharing and thought provoking.

[paleotn]

17. The jury is still out on intelligence being a successful, long term evolutionary strategy.

We may very well end up an interesting layer in the rock record for some other intelligent life form to ponder in the distant future, before they to follow the same dead end path to extinction.

Horseshoe crabs, a relatively simple creature related to spiders and ticks and one of my all time favorites, has been around nearly unchanged for a couple hundred million years. Living fossils who've seen numerous extinction events and survived. No human intelligence required. Homo sapiens, in comparison, are newborns in the first hours of life. Too early to tell if we're really all that successful or just an interesting dead end.

[stopdiggin]

18. viruses 'survive' very nicely too

Last edited Wed Jan 25, 2023, 09:25 PM - Edit history (1)

and there is some debate as to whether they are truly living matter.
And the point? Is passing along genetic code what 'life' is all about?

So - far better to be incarnated as a virus, or a slime mold?

[Red Pest]

20. (Sigh) Humans & other primates are not the only intelligent animals

Toothed whales (dolphins & porpoises, sperm whales, etc), elephants, various birds (parrots, crows, ravens, etc.), and octopi all exhibit intelligence in problem solving, which may even involve some tool use and social behavior in large groups (not so much in octopi). The problem with humans is that too often there are people who use their intelligence to exert power over others for selfish purposes. Taken to an extreme this may lead to killing one's opponents (real & perceived; individuals & groups).

If humans would act consistently in a rational and intelligent manner we would have addressed climate change when it first became apparent (over 50 years ago). We would not pollute the water we drink, the air we breath, and the land upon which we live and grow our food. We would not have elected stupid people (i.e., Donald Trump, Adolf Hitler, and far too many others) to leadership of various countries.

The problem is not that we are intelligent; rather, the problem is that we are not intelligent enough, we are not rational enough, we are not empathetic enough, we are not thoughtful enough.

Finally, remember that all living organisms alive today are modern. They may retain various ancient characteristics, but all are modern and have passed through evolutionary selection processes to get to now. All ancestral species were modern in the past and all have become extinct and, in some cases, have living descendants that are alive now as modern organisms.

[not fooled]

21. The fundamental, fatal flaw in humanity

might be that greedy sociopaths willing to commit ecocide for short-term profits, and the culture of profit and money above all else, rise to dominance in Western culture. The intelligence which foresees the damage caused and proposes solutions is overridden by basically the same greed-driven mentality that in previous civilizations resulted in violent looting and pillaging. Same thing goes on now, just through the legal system and without open bloodshed.