Seeking advice on water heaters

[mvd]

I recently had Roto-Rooter in to look at my 10-year-old 100 gallon gas water heater that stopped working. They could not light the pilot light and said it needs to be replaced for $5,000. I did not trust this at all. A second opinion priced them around the same, and saw similar prices at Home Depot. But I also saw cheaper prices for smaller water heaters. If I do have to replace it (and I can not - no money), do I really need a big 100 gallon water heater for my fairly small townhouse? It is like a townhouse since attached.

[Meadowoak]

1. 40 gallon is what most homes have. Unless you have a large family

Or you're operating a restaurant, you don't need 100 gallon tank. A new 40 gal. Should run less than $1000.

[beaglelover]

37. Agree 100%

[PortTack]

2. We have had a tankless water heater now for 10+ yrs. If a new heater is going to cost you 5k

I would certainly look long and hard at a tankless heater. With the cost of natural gas being what it is it should save you some serious money. We love ours!

[we can do it]

20. Agree, we are all electric- solar and love ours.

[lapfog_1]

3. I would look at going tankless

https://www.e-tankless.com/stiebel-eltron-tempra-29-tankless-water-heater.php?utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&utm_term=Tempra%2B29&utm_campaign=Tankless&gclid=CjwKCAjwrdmhBhBBEiwA4Hx5g16D6mc03kAEq8lzifr4eybX3P5UmPD4SzAVIsZkt1todGfBn2BAKBoCUJgQAvD_BwE

$750 or so... takes less room and can be much more energy efficient (depending on how much hot water you use).

[mvd]

5. Thanks all

I do not know much about such things and these seem like good options. Appreciate it.

[Major Nikon]

39. Tankless may not be a good option

I looked at tankless when I last replaced my water heater and the big problem I had was the gas line and manifold would not support the increased volume required for tankless. For this and other reasons tankless may not be the best option, so best to do your homework before jumping in.

100 gal is way overkill for most homes. I have a 50 gal and at times we are doing laundry, running the dishwasher, and showering all at the same time and I’ve never had an issue running out of hot water.

[retread]

40. He did say he had a gas water heater. Maybe there is some savings there. If one has to upgrade their

electric service to accommodate a tankless electric this includes a new panel in addition to running the service to the heater. $750 would be a pipe dream.

[Phoenix61]

4. That's a crazy big water heater.

40-50 gallon is pretty much the standard. That’s also an insane price to install. Check around with local plumbing companies. Also, your electric company may offer a rebate for switching to electric.

[mvd]

6. Yeah, this house is only around 1600 or something square feet

I do not know why such a big one was installed.

[Lochloosa]

15. Same size house 40 gallons. 100 is way more than you need for.

I put in a new one a few years ago, but I'm an electrician. Total cost was around 400. 5K is ripping you off

My advice is drop down to 40 gallons and get at least 3 quotes. You should be able to get it done for less than 1K.

[Mr.Bill]

7. Never buy a water heater from a plumber.

You are only creating a middle-man by doing this.

[RockRaven]

8. 100 gallons seems like overkill unless you have a lot of people in the household...

Depends on how much hot water you want in a short period of time (essentially bathing/showering around the same time of day), but a 1-3 person household would be fine with a 50 or 60 gallon, usually. Could get by with an even smaller one depending on one's habits and preferences.


Also, FWIW the entire water heater often shouldn't need replacing if the tank aspect is intact. Depends on the model, yada yada, but the heat components (both gas burners and electrical heating elements) are replaceable -- I'm no expert and I've done one of each at my own home over the years. Don't do anything you are not comfortable with, but consider watching some videos on YouTube about water heater problem diagnosis and repair...

[mvd]

9. It's only a 2 person household

Water gets used but not tremendously so. It does sound like a smaller one would be ok. Glad I posted this.

[markie]

16. 30 gallon

for 2 of us works fine...

[ramblin_dave]

10. Does your water heater provide hot water for heating?

If your water heater only serves hot water taps in your bathrooms and kitchens, and hot water to a washing machine or dishwasher, then 100 gal is way too big for a small family. A typical size is 40 gal. But if your hot water also provides heat to your condo, such as by radiant baseboard heaters or a hot water coil in a central air handler, then you would need a bigger hot water heater. Even then, 100 gal seems too big.

[mvd]

11. It has a separate heater for non water heating

Fortunately that still works.

[NBachers]

12. If the pilot light won't work always check the THERMOCOUPLE first. It's an inexpensive device that's

fairly easy to install. If they didn't try installing a thermocouple, I'd run from them.

Your pilot light's flame is focused on a small metal rod called a thermocouple. The heated rod produces a small amount of electricity. This electricity keeps the small valve open that supplies gas to the pilot light.

The thermocouple is a safety device. If the pilot light goes out, the thermocouple cools off. The electricity stops. This closes off the supply of gas to the pilot light. It keeps un-burned gas from flowing into your environment. Sometimes the thermocouple wears out and needs to be replaced.

Any plumber or most handymen / women know how to replace a thermocouple. They cost less than twenty bucks. Check out "Water heater thermocouple" online or on YouTube. Verify that Roto-Rooter replaced the thermocouple.

Do NOT buy a new water heater if the thermocouple has not been replaced on your old water heater first! You may not need a new water heater.

https://www.homedepot.com/c/ah/how-to-replace-a-thermocouple/9ba683603be9fa5395fab901ced3a679

[Kaleva]

13. OP says they couldn't light the pilot light.

Thermocouple needs the pilot light on in order to work.

I think it may be a plugged pilot orifice. Disconnect the pilot line from the gas valve, put the valve in pilot position and depress. If gas comes from the gas valve, then it's probably a plugged orifice

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

19. Depends on what "can't light the pilot" means ...

I have to turn a knob to point to "Pilot", then light the little stream of gas. Then I have to hold the knob there until the thermocouple heats up, then turn the dial to "on". If the thermocouple is bad, the pilot light will then go out; otherwise, it will stay on.

"plugged orifice"? the mind boggles.

[Kaleva]

21. I kept a set of small needles in my tool bucket

Plugged orifices were more of a problem with LP gas appliances then natural gas. Sometimes there'd be a crude buildup on the hood of the pilot assembly which would prevent sufficient flame from hitting the thermocouple.

[Jack the Greater]

31. And the pilot light needs the thermocouple to work to stay on when lighting

NBachers has it right. If the pilot burns while depressing the knob while lighting it, but goes out after releasing the knob (providing the knob was depressed long enough to heat the thermocouple sufficiently}, that is a very strong indication that the thermocouple either needs cleaning or replacing. Much less likely is the gas supply solenoid in the gas valve needs replacing, or replace the gas valve. But both are way cheaper than a new water heater, which is probably why RR did not mention it.

But start with replacing the thermocouple. That is what any competent honest service person would do.

[Kaleva]

33. And the thermocouple needs the pilot light in order to work

Here is what the OP said:

"They could not light the pilot light ..."



If ,as the OP stated, the pilot light doesn't light, it doesn't matter if the thermocouple is good or not. Replacing the thermocouple won't solve the problem.

You have to be able to light the pilot light first. If you can light the pilot but it doesn't stay lit, after releasing the knob on the gas valve, then try and replace the thermocouple.

I've been doing this for over 30 years and I have an idea about how things work

[BlackSkimmer]

34. Most of us believe there is no non-working water heater.

Just read back on some of these threads.

[Kaleva]

35. If the gas valve doesn't work, then might as well replace the unit

[Kaleva]

14. A 40 gallon ought to be adequete

I have a 2300 sq ft home with three bathrooms, dishwasher and washing machine. The 40 gallon water heater I have is adequete for my wife and I.

[vanlassie]

17. I had an experience with RR which convinced me that

I was about to be swindled. They were flat out crooked.

[Emile]

18. I have a water softener and my water heater lasted 30 years.

[Kaleva]

22. Water softener s can make a big difference.

I flush out my water heater once a year.

[Ocelot II]

23. $5,000??? No way. You don't need a 100-gallon water heater

unless you have a big house with a lot of people in it. Most household water heaters are 40-50 gallon, which should be plenty for a small townhouse and one or two people. And there's no way it should cost anywhere near $5K.

[mvd]

24. There's no way I would pay $5,000 even if I had it

Plumbers and especially Roto-Rooter aren’t very trustworthy on such things.

[MissB]

25. Isn't the house in foreclosure?

If it is, I’m not sure it’s useful to replace the hot water heater. You seem to be at the point where $20 helps with groceries for a week; not sure how you’d be able to afford a hot water heater. And if the house is in foreclosure, how can you even spend that money on an appliance vs spending the money to stay out of foreclosure?

[BlackSkimmer]

27. What an excellent question.

Perhaps our intrepid mvd is planning a fundraiser of some sort?

Aren't houses in foreclosure simply sold "as is"?

[ForgedCrank]

26. You can

get black 1" flexible hose and run it in a pattern on your roof into a holding tank when the need arises. The hose will soak up the heat from the sun and provide free hot water. There are youtube videos on how to do it.

[XanaDUer2]

28. Definitely contact United Way of PA

See if they can hook you up with an agency that supplies used appliances for low-income citizens. You may be able to find a donated water heater, then just pay for installation

https://www.pa211.org/get-help/clothing-household/appliance-donation-programs/

[jcgoldie]

29. You can get a tankless one for less than that!

Uses less power too.

[Mosby]

32. His water heater is gas

So a "enclosed" mid efficiency tankless system will require a 120 volt line, relocated water lines, and probably a new vent system. For a do-it-youselfer it's medium difficulty, a plumber would charge who knows what, and if you can't tap off a light or something for a new junction box, you would have to run an entire new line from the breaker box.

Even still running on gas, it won't work during power outages.

[yellowdogintexas]

30. 40 gallons should definitely be more than sufficient for two

Ours is a 40 gal gas heater; we also have a gas furnace.

My water heater stopped working and I called our HVAC guy because I knew he could legally and correctly manage the gas hookup. Turns out there was a bird nest in the roof vent which had caused the safety measures to take over and turn off my pilot light. He put a bird protection cover on the vent and lit the pilot. It has had no problems until recently but this time the old thing has slowly lost its reheating capacity.

We don't get nearly as much hot water to our bathrooms as we once did. Not to mention our bathrooms are as far as they can possibly be from the water heater and still be in the house.

So we are in the market for a new one ourselves. We will stay with gas because it is more efficient and less expensive here.

[irisblue]

36. Columbus Ohio, 50 gal tank, 9 yr warrenty, $1750

Rheem brand. Got my first estimate today
Gas heat plus some pipe line repair plus city code inspection

I used to Roto Rooter for replacing the 60+ yr old sewer line, from the basement to city pipes, was $5000 in 2017.
They were good for that, but for a water tank, I'd pass that by

[Mosby]

38. That's the installed price?

They are a lot less if you drop down to a 6 year warranty. The warrantees (imo) are kinda worthless unless there is a factory defect or something, and even then you have 3 months to return to HD or Lowes.

I live in the southwest, so it's primarily hard water that kills the water heaters, I'm on my third at my house, last one I installed myself. Pretty simple, even with gas, but you have to be familiar with basic plumbing techniques, especially with the gas fittings.

Rheem water heaters are made in Mexico, AO Smith, sold at Lowe's are made in the USA.

Eta:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/A-O-Smith-Signature-50-Gallon-Tall-6-Year-Limited-Natural-Gas-Water-Heater/1000542577

[irisblue]

41. The guy said my previous tank was 31 yrs old. Second is next week

I got my money worth.

Yes installed cost, local business.

Second meaning another company

[Mosby]

44. That's a long time.

My house was built in '72 and I think it's on its 4th water heater. The first one I bought and replaced lasted about 13 years.

One option you might consider is asking for an installation only price. You could buy the water heater you want and have it delivered. Then the contractor would install it.

[ForgedCrank]

42. I'm so

glad I can still do this stuff myself. Water heater is quite simple if you have basic tools.
The hardest part was getting the old one out of the basement and the new one down.

[irisblue]

43. Can you come up over here?

I'm listening