The DU Lounge
Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsWhy do people like to post about something/someone popular they consider overrated?
I've seen threads about this sort of thing in lots of forums besides this one.
And they inevitably lead to arguments.
Maybe I'm averse to them because I grew up with siblings and parents who all had very different tastes. We weren't ever in a bubble where those around us agreed with us on very much. We had to accept that everyone's taste is different, and keep our own opinions to ourselves, or find ourselves in never-ending arguments (or at least trying to ignore constant snide remarks).
That doesn't mean we didn't have opinions. We all had lots of them, and as usual we had high opinions of our own taste (everybody's a wannabe critic, and unfortunately some of the most famous critics got attention for delivering scathing opinions from On High...while probably also dying of envy of those artists).
My dad was the exception to our usually keeping our negative opinions to ourselves. He loved jazz, and he loved Sinatra and the others in the Rat Pack. He'd kind of tolerated rock, apparently as something just for kids (with the teen idols just wannabe crooners), up to the British Invasion and the Beatles, Stones, Animals, and so on. But that was too much for him. If they were on TV, he'd snicker and ridicule them. But even then, as young as I was, it seemed obvious that he felt the superiority of his own taste, the music he thought best, was threatened by what the revolution in rock was doing to the music industry, at a time when he was working in radio.
He never changed any of our opinions. But when my parents finally divorced, I was glad not to have to hear him running down most of the rock bands I'd like to listen to or watch on TV.
Anyway, even when I can understand someone posting that they think something or someone popular is overrated - because I share that opinion - it makes me wince to see those opinions posted in a forum where people usually get along. I've seen some pretty angry exchanges elsewhere even on subjects like least-favorite songs by a band even when ONLY fans of that band were posting.
Threads about "favorite" or "best" don't seem to cause arguments. But threads on "worst" or overrated" do. They're all threads about opinions. But the latter has people more obviously telling others they have lousy taste.
LakeArenal
(29,949 posts)Or some light hearted thread and someone decides to give a history lesson that has little to do with the thread.
I think lots of people like the back and forth.
The ones I dont care for are ones that wont let something go. Parse a single word in a thread. 100 people can leave 100 positive comments but theres those few that argue the point until no one is reading the thread anymore.
highplainsdem
(62,584 posts)what's good or best versus what's bad or worst.
Imagine the tone of a thread about best dog breeds, for instance, compared to the tone of a thread about worst dog breeds. Even with only dog lovers posting in each.
debm55
(61,066 posts)If people are complaining to you about it, they should take their complaints to me. I would have self deleted or fixed the title, which I have done before. Not everyone is going to have the same tastes in music, Why? Because we have different tastes, likes and experences. I never like the Beach Boys, I could not relate to it, as I was from a Rust Town in PA. I like Motown for the longest time, still do. Doesn't make me a good or bad person. Makes me a person that had their musical tastes change over the years. I'.ll leave it up to someone else to start a post on music-or any titles of likes . I have learned my lesson as to what should be posted. When there is a thread I don't feel I would enjoy, I skip it. and I always say a little something to everyone that posts or leave a smilie.I'll figure out something as not to upset posters. Thank you.
highplainsdem
(62,584 posts)threads in general that ask people what popular music, movies, etc., they think are overrated, and what I've seen them do in other forums.
No, this isn't an "I agree with you" forum.
People posting about their favorites aren't likely to agree. But they aren't slamming someone else's favorites, someone else's taste.
The thing about saying something is overrated is that you're saying that artist, actor, album, single, etc., didn't deserve success, which means that the people who like them have poor taste. That won't offend the people who agree with you, or the people who don't care either way. It will offend people who are fans of that artist, song, etc.
I've been in a lot of different types of forums in the nearly 40 years since I first got online, including forums exclusively for discussions of a single artist or band (where you'll usually see disagreements about different eras, albums and tracks). And it's been my experience that while threads about favorites don't cause arguments and hurt feelings, threads about what's worst or what's overrated do.
As I said above:
You know that it's likely any breed named as worst would be one that someone here loved and owned, or wished they owned. And they'd likely take seeing their favorite named as the worst very personally.
Especially if they'd ever posted about owning that breed, or had been thinking about posting about it.
debm55
(61,066 posts)about Music Appreciation. #19 in this thread. Sorry for misreading. But there have not been arguments on the Worst Actor, worst commercial, worst/best car. People here are very easy going from what I see. I don't think the Lounge is like GD. If it was I would leave.
highplainsdem
(62,584 posts)disagreements going on below the surface than you'll see on the board.
Especially if people feel belittled or dismissed or unwelcome.
Which, again, is why I wince when I see posts asking others to vent about something they consider "overrated" or "worst" that others there are likely to love.
Because those do inevitably knock other people's taste. Probably other forum members' taste.
Just having different preferences, different favorites, doesn't.
debm55
(61,066 posts)personally. They know who they are. I will not name them. I don't put them on ignore. The things they said about me hurt me deeply. I understand what you are saying. I will let others do the OP on what is the worst------whatever.
highplainsdem
(62,584 posts)I usually love your posts here. I wouldn't even have mentioned anything about threads asking what people think is "overrated" if I hadn't seen them create problems elsewhere, and I posted a separate OP about it because it wasn't about you. It was about those threads in general.
FWIW, I doubt anyone who ever posts a thread asking others what they think is overrated ever intends to hurt anyone else's feelings. They're sounding out other people's opinions, and venting. But they end up stepping on toes without realizing it.
debm55
(61,066 posts)Last edited Mon Jun 5, 2023, 08:58 AM - Edit history (1)
highplainsdem
(62,584 posts)thank you for the compliment.
And thank you for your posts here, the OPs and the sweet replies. I'm very sorry if my OP upset you.
Coventina
(29,793 posts)People do it because sometimes a "thing" will be wildly popular, but at least a percentage won't understand why.
Take me for instance: I despise most of what people call "classic rock": Journey, Eagles, AC/DC, Chicago, Boston, all that stuff.
It seems to be a genre that most people like, I'm bombarded with it at parties, restaurants, any place that has piped in music.
It's like nails on a chalkboard for me. I know that I'm the oddball, most people love it.
So, whenever I have an invitation to speak against it, I'll do it every time. It feels good to vent about having to put up with what the majority likes in order to get along.
It's the minority having a chance to voice their opinion. Just ignore it if it really bothers you that much.
highplainsdem
(62,584 posts)successful as she is. You seem to feel the need to defend her then.
In my experience with lots of different online forums on different subjects, and moderating some of those forums, topics about favorites/best are much less likely to trigger arguments and even lasting feuds or ill will than topics about what's worst and overrated.
debm55
(61,066 posts)post was postive, but for one poster it wasn't.
Coventina
(29,793 posts)their criticism has to do with ageism, sexism, or slut-shaming.
That's what bothers me.
It can also bug me when the criticism is just plain dumb. For example: I read a critique of her "Madame X" tour where the critic complained that there were "too many songs off the Madam X album". I mean really! The tour was to support the album! That's how rock tours work, generally. Duh!
I don't love everything Madonna has done. She's had bad albums (Hard Candy), weak albums (Erotica), and songs that are just plain garbage. She's also said / done stupid and silly things over her career. All of that is fine to critique.
I just have no patience for the criticism that is bigoted or ignorant in nature.
I feel sad for anyone who would take online forum comments seriously enough to be bothered by them more than a minute or two. I certainly wouldn't want any hardcore Eagles fan to throw out their record collection just because I personally find them to be torture to listen to.
highplainsdem
(62,584 posts)are inevitably ageist, sexist slut-shamers and just dumb about music unless they share your specific opinions of particular albums. I think it's much more likely that most of them simply have different taste in music. But it's fine to point out ageism, sexism, etc.
Re your last paragraph - there are plenty of people who take online comments very seriously. If you have many email contacts in a forum, and especially if you've ever moderated one, you WILL hear both sides.
You might not want any Eagles fans to throw out their record collections because you can't stand their music. But online bashing of a particular artist might silence or even drive away their fans. Unless they want to start an argument by taunting the hecklers.
This is a very diverse group, here at DU. I like that diversity.
Coventina
(29,793 posts)ageism, sexism, or slut-shaming and I will consider myself corrected.
I like diversity too.
highplainsdem
(62,584 posts)Coventina
(29,793 posts)highplainsdem
(62,584 posts)ageist, sexist, slut-shamers - or dumb - who simply don't care for her music.
I'm not a fan of her music.
People can have different taste in music, without being stupid or having some other flaw. You don't seem willing to acknowledge that.
Coventina
(29,793 posts)I'm not talking about people who don't like her music, I never was.
I'm talking about people who comment about her looks, fashions, age, personal life, ad nausem.
Not liking her music is a whole other thing.
A long time DUer, flvegan, doesn't like her music, but gives her props for being pro-LGBT+ before it was socially acceptable, and her many charitable causes, and for promoting the Beastie Boys (who he loves).
I'm perfectly fine with not liking her music, as long as they are fair about it, and not saying that as a cover for their secret bigotry. A lot of times, if you scratch the surface, that's what it's really about. Just try reading the comments sections of any news articles about her and you'll see what I mean.
After all, it's hard enough to get tickets to her show. I don't need more competition!
highplainsdem
(62,584 posts)Including promoting the Beastie Boys, though I don't love them. Artists should promote other artists they like.
As for ageism, which you mentioned earlier - I'm all in favor of older musicians continuing to create music, and have made that clear over and over again. Including in this thread I should have kept kicked...
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10181696853
While I'm not a fan of Madonna's, I admire her dedication to her music and her fans.
Skittles
(172,140 posts)I liked Madonna in "Desperately Seeking Susan" but her music, no, I have never been able to stand it....
usonian
(25,857 posts)and tolerant of others (unless it's one of those noise ordinance situations)
Found a 50,000 watt AM Oldies station in Fresno. (YES)
All the classical stations are on FM and fade in and out in the foothills. Mostly fade out.
When my 20 year old pickup hit its final deer (accidentally), I got a new Forester.
Made the jump from cassette tape to CD.
Nice!
Tastes vary!

P.S. I used an iPod instead of the tape drive.
Oh, and regarding Dads. My Dad was eclectic. Loved his big bands, but had lots of classical records, and there was the FM anyway.
Loved those BSO and Pops concerts.
And the pops concerts had lots of "pop" music, so I understand how they attract new listeners to classical music.
The only thing that bothers me is that stations on the airwaves and the internet do play some pieces endlessly, beating them to a pulp, IMO. That's why devices have switches. I enjoy playing (piano) more than listening, though the quality varies.
CIAO!
Niagara
(11,876 posts)Someone is going to get angry. Someone is going to argue. Someone is going to be condescending. Someone is going to (fill in the blank). It goes on and on.
The Wordle OP's annoy me, so I put that word in my trash can. I get annoyed about other DU'ers complaining about the Lume commercials, so I put that word in my trash can. So far, Lume is one of two products that I can use on my shaved armpits due to having extremely bad skin pores, and yet about once a week there's an OP in the lounge trashing the product, inventor and commercials.
I was placed on someone's ignore list only this morning because I like the convenience of shopping on Amazon. I was 100% polite in my response. And now I'm apparently the worst person on the face of this planet since I like convenience in my life.
Only my 2 cents.
Irish_Dem
(81,806 posts)highplainsdem
(62,584 posts)what you like, and why, and slamming someone else for liking something and saying why they shouldn't like it.
debm55
(61,066 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 4, 2023, 12:05 PM - Edit history (1)
and people were slammed? I don't see it here in the Lounge
debm55
(61,066 posts)thread was written about not responding to any "What is your favorite______? As your credit could be breeched. Posters were told to answer at their own risk.
Irish_Dem
(81,806 posts)People will be more polite in real life, but can let out their aggression online.
bucolic_frolic
(55,415 posts)Even Keith Olbermann. Stop giving viewers kitchen-table backdrop on your podcasts, man! You can afford better and deserve better!
debm55
(61,066 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 4, 2023, 12:06 PM - Edit history (1)
angry words used in the GD. In the last week, I have had two snotty posts to me on the "nice" threads. I said I was sorry. but latter I asked myself why should I be sorry. I only asked for where I could catch the movie. and in another I interrupted their conversation. Sometimes, you damned if you do and damned if you don't.
highplainsdem
(62,584 posts)catch a movie???
My concern about "back and forth" on what's worst or overrated is that inevitably it's belittling other people's taste. And it does often cause hard feelings, much more often than total disagreement on what's best does.
It can sometimes increase a feeling of group solidarity if people happen to agree on what's worst. It reinforces their feeling that their taste is superior to the nitwits who like what they think is worst.
But most of the time I see arguments and hurt feelings. I hear about the hurt feelings at times since even when I haven't been moderating, I'll have email contact with both sides.
I've asked the people in Music Appreciation, which I host, to please try to keep their negative opinions to themselves. People's taste in music is intensely personal, and if everyone who disagreed with whether a particular song is good decided to vent, every post would be buried in negative comments and arguments. And most people would simply give up on posting. Shyer newcomers would probably never post. There was at least one old thread there on "overrated" artists, and a number of the people responding seemed in shock that others bitterly disliked artists who were their favorites. And I couldn't help wondering if they just didn't post any music by those favorites after that, since they thought they'd be mocked for doing so. Sometimes it can take only one or two people trying to bully others out of saying they like a particular artist/actor/genre to shut down most discussion.
Threads on what people like, otoh, tend to open up discussions and make people feel their opinions and interests are welcome.
debm55
(61,066 posts)OP was written about it. I sort of give up. I feel I am caught in the middle.
wryter2000
(47,940 posts)To get so much praise, attention, and success.
Elessar Zappa
(16,385 posts)Theres some things I dont personally like but I wont say its terrible or overrated because my opinion isnt the only one that matters. I dont like most pop music but I wouldnt presume to tell anyone that pop music is shitty or anything like that.
wryter2000
(47,940 posts)That blind Italian singer, for example, is nowhere near the caliber of a great opera singer. I dont really care about how much people think hes so fantastic. But its mostly hype.
quaint
(5,112 posts)They have exposed me to some stellar tunes by groups whose music I thought I didn't like.
I trash "over-rated" posts without poking in. Best way for me to avoid the high blood pressure hit.
wryter2000
(47,940 posts)Because they routinely ignore soul, R&B, and Motown, where you find truly great music.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)100%
debm55
(61,066 posts)wryter2000
(47,940 posts)If Id seen your poll I would have voted.
debm55
(61,066 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 4, 2023, 05:15 PM - Edit history (1)
country, Rap, R & B, soul,classical and because I was up to ten genres of music, OTHERS was used. I was blasted. I will not do polls anymore. OTHERS mean put your favorite in as there is a limit for number of selections for polls when you run out of room. I was told-where is alternate rock, where is progressive. The title was what is your favorite type of music. I know darn well that I included those I listed above and others--even Latino. Perhaps you can start a thread on favorite types of music. Just beware =don't use a poll. Thanks
quaint
(5,112 posts)debm55
(61,066 posts)Upthevibe
(10,206 posts)I love these types of posts. IMHO, it generates interesting conversations. And, in the end, it's about opinions...I'm thinking of taste based, not fact based.
I don't care for the band Rush. They just don't play the kind of music that moves me. I LOVE Neil Young and am very touched by his music. Mark (formerly of Mark and Brian) and his wife Lynda have a podcast. I love listening to them. He doesn't care for Neil Young and has said so. And Lynda likes Disco (which I can't stand).
It doesn't make me think lesser of them at all. It's a matter of taste.....
Response to Upthevibe (Reply #22)
debm55 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Niagara
(11,876 posts)Upthevibe
(10,206 posts)Awwwwwwww....Thank you!
debm55
(61,066 posts)debm55
(61,066 posts)Skittles
(172,140 posts)it's another subject to discuss.....
highplainsdem
(62,584 posts)someone overrated are basically threads questioning other people's taste. They're threads suggesting that people who like those artists or songs are stupid.
You might as well post - using examples from another thread you recently posted in - "Why are people stupid enough to like the Grateful Dead?" Or, "Why are people stupid enough to like ABBA?" Or, "Why are people stupid enough to like 'Freebird'?"
You're not just insulting the artist. You're insulting everyone who likes them.
I enjoy finding out which artists other people like. Finding out who those same people look down on or want to ridicule - not so much.
Especially when I know very well there are fans of those artists reading the posts belittling their favorites. And maybe wondering if they should never post their favorite music there.
Saying you aren't a fan of an artist is just removing yourself from the group of their fans, without putting down the fans. But I don't see any way that calling an artist overrated doesn't diss their fans as well.
Skittles
(172,140 posts)we do it with MAGAts regularly
highplainsdem
(62,584 posts)the music-fan equivalent of MAGAts?
The odds are those people also like some of the artists you like. Does that make those Grateful Dead fans smart when they agree with you, and stupid otherwise?
Can't you just accept that people have different tastes in music?
Skittles
(172,140 posts)did I *EVER* say people who like the Grateful Dead are STUPID? NO - I said *I DON'T UNDERSTAND THEIR POPULARITY* - END OF FUCKING STORY
*DONE HERE*, this is RIDICULOUS
Response to Skittles (Reply #55)
highplainsdem This message was self-deleted by its author.
highplainsdem
(62,584 posts)suggests their fans don't know anything about music. No one's going to take being told the music they like is lame as a neutral comment.
And someone else there went a bit farther, saying the Dead "sucked everywhere" - so there'd really been no reason ever for anyone liking their music. And there were suggestions that drug use was the main draw - which was wrong, and ignored the drug use by other bands and their fans. And one DUer said they'd rather smash their thumb with a hammer than listen to the band.
There was no sign in that thread that any of the people posting there could really accept that there could be a good, non-stoned reason to like the Grateful Dead. It was quite insulting to their fans. And there are more than a few Grateful Dead fans here.
debm55
(61,066 posts)to change their minds because likes and dislikes are based on the individual's taste.