Friendly, welcoming place for everyone?

[Ptah]

Our social forum. Relax with your friends and talk about off-topic stuff.
The Lounge is supposed to be a friendly, welcoming place for everyone.
No cliquish behavior. No drama. No political arguments.

10 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
	Vulgar is the Lounge theme
	2 (20%)
	Glory hole is funny
	1 (10%)
	This poll is from the 'Prude Dudes'
	0 (0%)
	I read and cringe
	1 (10%)
	Ignore and chill, dude
	3 (30%)
	You're a host, lock it
	0 (0%)
	Sucks to be you
	0 (0%)
	Yes, less crudeness would be nice
	3 (30%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Ikonoklast]

1. You lookin' to start a fight, pal?

[Ptah]

2. Who me?

[Ikonoklast]

3. Naw, your kid sister!

Yeah, you.

You're one of them there rabble-rousers, ain't ya?

[Ptah]

4. But she's so cute!

[Ikonoklast]

5. Oh, they're all cute when they're little.

But they get meaner with age, no matter how much cake you feed them.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

6. just for the record, glory hole is NOT funny.

[auntAgonist]

9. agreed ! ! !

[Tuesday Afternoon]

10. gmta

[pintobean]

19. Jury results on that

At Sun Sep 16, 2012, 09:56 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Tobin finally discovered what the term "glory hole" means...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018193792

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

This rude, over-the-top post should not be accepted within our community standards. Please vote to hide.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Sep 16, 2012, 10:00 AM, and the Jury voted 4-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: While HH is obviously joking, this is pretty fucked up. Filthy homophobic bullshit.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: Maybe if it had been funny. Maybe.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: This is the Lounge, and we are in the 21st century, and I think this is fine and, in fact, would be fine with pictures of boobies and peepees.

No big deal here.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Lighten up.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

20. I agree totally with #2 --- maybe

if only it had been funny ---- maybe.

#4 .... how old are you?

[Pool Hall Ace]

7. Putting a certain poster and his sock puppets on ignore has made all the difference for me.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

12. more like his proteges.

[Ptah]

8. Kick for more input.

[LaurenG]

11. No

the lounge is not as friendly or welcoming as it could be.

[ohiosmith]

13. I think so! Things are however, what we make of them.

[MiddleFingerMom]

14. Occasionally lines of outright thoughtlessness or outright intentional offensiveness are crossed.

.
.
.
This will happen when people are pushing the edges of "general community-acceptable
humor". I think most of the people I see posting (including myself) try to avoid being
intentionally offensive to most folks, though we may delve into what very well may be
sophomoric, juvenile and/or scatological humor sometimes (sometimes often). And I think
we all know that, even if NOBODY went there, there are going to be people who are just
perpetually offended by just about anything.
.
Posts here are judged by the same "community standard" juries as the more political
and social Forums/Groups are. I don't think one can say GD is not "welcoming", though
certainly some members appear to strive to make it so. But their standards are not set
by those most offended, but by the community efforts of the juries. Flawed system?
Hells, yeah!!! But better than letting Mrs. Grundy take control.
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrs_Grundy
.
Mrs Grundy is the name of an imaginary English character, who typifies the
disciplinary control of the conventional proprieties of society over conduct
and the tyrannical pressure of the opinion of neighbours on the acts of others.
.
Most of us have the intentions, not of making others uncomfortable... but of making
them laugh, giving them a little relief from what can seem like a never-ending onslaught
of "Life".
.
I don't think the vast majority of us are ever (or at least ever INTEND to be) unfriendly
and unwelcoming.
.
That said, The Lounge and other areas rife with quick-witted humor of all sorts may
not be suitable for some folks. NOWHERE is there a place that is all things to all people.
.
A shame... but more a function of individuals' preferences and boundaries than the folks
posting in The Lounge.
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.
I suggest any who disagree with that re-experience some Lenny Bruce, George Carlin
and Bill Hicks. I don't know that ANYONE in The Lounge is that level of "art"... but most
of us almost certainly appreciate their humor and genius. They are not for everyone,
either... sophomoric, juvenile and scatological as THEIR material sometimes got.
.
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I think (in the majority of cases -- I mentioned occasional exceptions above) that The
Lounge is not unwelcoming to those who might feel uncomfortable here -- but more
"not their cup of tea".
.
All are certainly welcome, but if found NOT to be a "welcoming or friendly place" (for
THEIR tastes), then they would not be FORCED out, but they would CHOOSE to go
elsewhere. Community standards should apply -- not individuals' sensitivities.
.
.
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It IS however, a richly satisfying cuppa to many DU members. That is why they make
vanilla and, um... you know... ... ... ... ... French vanilla.
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.

[OriginalGeek]

15. FRENCH vanilla?!?

Noooo thanks - I'm already too ticklish....

[A Simple Game]

66. I really like the Lounge, it is the last place I visit before I sign off DU for the day.

The Lounge, if you let it, can be a very relaxing place to visit. But it does have a casualness about it that could be hard for some to understand. One should lurk for quite a while before posting to get used to the way things work here. The Lounge is an (almost) anything goes place, and people that require structure in their lives probably will not be able to function here. Those people should realize the Lounge is not for them and just stay away.

Excellent post, as usual, MFM. Stay well.

[HappyMe]

16. Ignore & chill.

The Lounge is what you make it. Hide thread works here too.

[Kali]

17. MFM said it much better than I could

be part of the community.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

18. Easy for MFM to say, being immortal and all ... nt

[auntAgonist]

21. I think this needs more input n/t "kick"

[FloridaJudy]

54. Most dirty jokes are fine

As long as they don't denigrate women or some minority group. But what goes on in some threads passes way beyond the bounds of civility and good taste. I've had to put a number of posters on ignore because they consistently push vulgarity beyond the limits. I don't want to hear about "pussy pads", or the size of someone's genitals. I'm not a prude: if you want to share that information with your close friends, by all means go ahead and do so. Just don't expect the rest of us to be gracious about seeing it in a public forum!

Use the word "fuck" if you want to. It's a good, limber Anglo Saxon word with a venerable history, and we all use it from time to time if the circumstances are appropriate. "I had a great fucking time" passes muster. Telling someone to "Fuck off and die in a fire!" is just plain rude, unless both of you are good buddies and it's meant ironically. But don't expect everyone to automatically know that.

[Behind the Aegis]

22. Rude, coarse, "dirty" language doesn't bother me.

I can make Satan, himself, blush with embarrassment, so foul mouths (as long as not personal attacks) aren't a problem. But, I do feel sometimes this place is very cliquish and not very welcoming.

[MADem]

35. Me neither--I can tell a dirty joke with the best of 'em, and crude language doesn't bother me,

either, though I know it upsets some people here on this board (which is why I keep it down to a dull roar, or at least limit it somewhat).

What keeps me away from this place is not just the cliquishness and "insider" snark, it's the attitude that is sometimes directed towards those who "don't get it." It's like everyone in the lounge is Connie D'Amico and newbies/infrequent visitors are Meg Griffin!

[MADem]

23. There seems to be some objection to "cliques" but I rarely visit here because I

get the impression the place is all about inside jokes. I always feel like the new kid at the end of the lunch table. I don't understand what people find funny and cheerlead, or some of the things that are alerted on, here. I guess one has to follow the threads and know the players--which is cliquish conduct in and of itself.

I don't think the place is friendly and welcoming to everyone, but I also don't think any place can be all things to all people. Now, Cooking and Baking? They're friendly and welcoming to all people!

[LaurenG]

25. I agree with you (again)

sometimes you just don't know what you've walked into. I wish it weren't that way but it is.

[MADem]

33. That is IT, precisely--"sometimes you just don't know what you've walked into." nt

[Kali]

44. I think MineralMan and you do have a valid point.

Inside jokes are a part of the Lounge. Being new does pose a problem for some people and I would like to hear from them some specifics about what WOULD help them feel more welcome.

Personally I never had this problem, I just joined in. Sure I got "ignored" - hell I still sit around with a lot of no-replies, but I don't get too freaked out about it. Try again. Sort of like taking stuff to a swap meet - the stuff you think is going to make you money just sits there and the junk you threw in a box at the last minute, planning to toss in a dumpster after the sale flies out for the first price you ask.

Anyway for people with no persistence or who are too shy or whatever it is that seems to be preventing them from participating - what do you think would help make them feel more comfortable?

[MADem]

57. I don't think everyone HAS to participate in every forum. I don't think everyone SHOULD, either!

I 'get' what the lounge is, and I don't really want to invest a lot of time learning the clique's rules--that's entirely my choice. I could invest the time in getting used to the place, but I spend too much time here as it is. I don't need to have a "Participant Badge" for every group or forum!

I think there are lots of spots on DU for people to congregate, and the people who like the lounge should have their place and their fun. People who want to jump in there should grow a thicker skin and be prepared for a bit of off-color humor.

People who are shy or who don't like swears or nasty talk should try Books or Science or Entertainment or Humor or Weird News or that hotbed of drama, Cooking/Baking. If people look around, and maybe DUmail their "buddies" to meet them in X Group, perhaps some of these under-used groups will start getting a little play. Rather than try to bend the lounge to their will, they should stake out a group more to their liking (and there are a load of barely-used ones out there) and create their own "clique."

Another place I avoid--by my own choice, entirely-- is the Gungeon--it's a real head-banger's ball there; people shouldn't be allowed in without helmets and flak jackets. I don't expect them to "change" for me, either--I'm not dating any of these groups, after all! And that shit never works, anyway!

I think people who don't normally use the lounge shouldn't run round the place alerting willy-nilly, particularly if they don't understand nuance or context. Let people have a little fun, even if they are acting like asses. Better they do it in the lounge than in LBN or GD. Trash threads that are bothersome....trash whole groups that are "offensive." It's a much better way to deal with upset/agita than running around hyper-alerting and trying to shut people up. In time, people who are total jerks will out themselves. They will develop a record of their own words that the admins can reference when they step too far over that line. It may take a while, but all things in time....

Some people enjoy rude repartee and "sexy party" talk, others enjoy fights over what I regard as "stupid shit" and they regard as "an important issue of national consequence," and that's why this place is so great--it's possible to find niches where neat things happen that will please almost every taste. People should be encouraged to go where they are welcomed, not where they feel out-of-place. I don't think every group or forum can--or even should--be all things to all people. I don't, for this reason, think "changing" the lounge is a good idea. I don't think it will "take," and I think people will resent it.

The lounge is what it is. It's a bit of a venting spot, like META but without the whining about DU. It's evolved into a sort of after-work bar for people, so let them have that--it does no harm.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

58. I started posting in the Lounge about the same time

I started posting in Meta. I eventually realized that I almost never got a response from the lounge regulars. That's when I decided it was a clique. There are some people here that I like but I get an odd vibe, like a local bar where outsiders are given the cold shoulder.

[MADem]

59. I used to live around the corner from a place like that!

The geezers who "owned" the place never much cared for me, I don't think.

They had their "reserved" stools at the bar, and they didn't like "outsiders." Any stranger coming in got the rheumy, evil eye.

I would go in for a meal because they had cheap ones that were home cooked. I could never get the "regulars" to be social so I stopped trying and brought my own friends. The owner (the actual one) liked that; it was good for business.

Not everyone is gonna love ya...that's just life. And life is far too short to worry about people who don't want to spend time with you. Go where you are celebrated, not where you are tolerated--that's my motto!

[UnrepentantLiberal]

62. Yup.

If one situation doesn't work for you, find another that does.

It's been that way with work for me as well. If I don't click or can't stand my coworkers and/or superiors right out of the gate I move on. I've always ended up in a much better situation.

[MineralMan]

24. I do not visit the Lounge,

except when there's an issue here that involved jury duty. There's a reason I don't come here, and that reason is that it's impossible to tell what is OK and not OK here. A good portion of frequent posters in the lounge appear to have knowledge not known to others. The inside jokes and attempts at humor often are meaningless to anyone who is not intimate with the place.

On DU2 and still on DU3, the Lounge is not a friendly place for people not already familiar with it. It simply is not. My answer is simply not to participate here at all. I'm here today because of discussions in the Hosts area, and won't be back anytime soon, for the same reasons I don't come here already.

[pintobean]

28. What a load

"On DU2 and still on DU3, the Lounge is not a friendly place for people not already familiar with it. It simply is not."

It's no different than the rest of DU when it comes to cliques and inside info.
I don't post here very often, but there's rarely any comments that would make me feel unwelcome. There are a lot of good people here.

[MineralMan]

30. It's my opinion.

I've seen no reason to change it. So far, I'm still entitled to have an opinion.

And I didn't mention cliques at all. My opinion is based on my perceptions of the forum. You might have other perceptions.

Thanks for your reply.

[Rosie1223]

26. The Lounge is a friendly and welcoming place if

you like MFM's posts.

If not, and you voice such, you will be swarmed and bullied.

[HappyMe]

27. If you don't like his posts,

put him on ignore. Problem solved.

[Rosie1223]

31. thanks for missing my point completely.

and proving my point all at the same time.

[HappyMe]

32. No, I didn't miss your point.

I really don't understand why people complain about his posts when there is a simple solution.

I don't think my reply to you was 'swarming and bullying'.

[Rosie1223]

34. Why isn't the simple solution for MFM's posse to ignore his critics?

instead of abusing their hosting abilities by unilaterally locking such threads?

FWIW, MFM himself has, in the past at least, been pretty good natured about such posts. It's his friends who bring in old grudges and clique accusations that make it ugly.

[HappyMe]

36. I didn't lock that thread.

So you will have to ask whomever did.
And yes, I did put someone on ignore after that.

[Rosie1223]

37. Then I wish others would follow your lead.

[Kali]

39. his critics, if they have such a hard time either dealing with his posts

or simply putting him on ignore, should take their concerns to meta. Meta is the forum for criticizing a poster you don't like and can't seem to ignore, not the Lounge.

If your creativity and Lounge contributions are limited to ridiculing a couple of other people you don't like and can't seem to ignore, you probably ought to just trash the forum. (and that is the generic you, by the way)

[MiddleFingerMom]

40. Thank you.

[Rosie1223]

41. Ah, Kali, I knew I could count on you for a friendly, welcoming post.

Inviting the (generic) you to either like your friend or go away and never return.

I love your consistency.

[Kali]

45. no you have that wrong, please read again

suggesting you take meanness and criticism to meta, you are more than welcome to play nicely in the lounge

[Rosie1223]

46. I was reading the part where you invite people to trash the lounge forum and never return.

I am well aware of the purpose of the meta forum.

[MiddleFingerMom]

47. Did you somehow translate Kali's generic message of...

.
.
.
... "If your creativity and Lounge contributions are limited to ridiculing ... people
you don't like and can't seem to ignore, you probably ought to just trash the forum"
.
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...into a generic message of "either like (my) friend or go away and never return."?
.
.
I'm serious... can you explain that conclusion? I think lack of communication skills
(either on the part of the "speaker" or the "listener" -- either innocently or willfully)
may be a big part of the problem here. And your interpretation MAY very well be
valid in some way that I'm just not seeing.
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I'd seriously (and good-naturedly) like to be able to see how you made that connection.
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[A Simple Game]

63. Thank you, you saved me from having to post. Wait, no you didn't.

Well you know what I mean. Good post.

The Lounge is not about criticism and ridicule, that is except for when MFM post naked pictures of himself.

[MiddleFingerMom]

64. Don't make me naked.

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You wouldn't LIKE me naked.
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.

[A Simple Game]

67. Oh don't worry, I already know I wouldn't like you naked. n/t

[CreekDog]

51. Not really because then he gets angry that people haven't replied

[Alduin]

55. One poster in particular has a point of doing that.

As you very well know.

[Xyzse]

29. Live and Let Live

Vulgarity happens, I just tend to ignore most of it and reply to whatever I want.

[CreekDog]

38. Unaccountable hosts who lock threads without consensus

and without discussion, breaking the rules of host.

then take off, ignoring all the hosts who complain afterwards.

[Taverner]

42. I am BUNGHOLIO!!!

ARE YOU THREATENING ME???


(Cornholio not used because of copyright)

[TZ]

43. LOL

Some things never change. Amazing.

[bluedigger]

48. I'll have to take a closer look before making a determination.

In the meantime, everybody cease and desist in doing wrong things!

[Jamastiene]

49. I hear this is the place to come if you want to hear about

hand jobs, "pussy pads," and other such unnecessary vulgarity(freaking WAY TMI, if you ask me). Geez, even I never brought that kind of stuff up here in the Lounge back when I used to feel welcome here.

For the record, the posts I am referring to were not hidden by a jury, so I am assuming it is ok to talk about such things on DU nowadays. Yet, G-rated art made out of freaking dots was locked...in the LOUNGE!?!?!?

Should have known. Finally, DU is not moderated and instead of some pleasant pretty pictures, we get gory details about someone's wife's period.

Geez, talking about The Change is fine if women are comparing notes on how hard it is, but women being told not to be a "bitch" and treat men nice while they are going through The Change? I think not, Mr. Keyboard Warrior. A woman has earned the right to be in a grumpy mood if she is going through The Change.

is with the hatred for dots around here? So much so that an art thread with art made out of dots was locked?

I see why I rarely post in the Lounge any more. It's a far cry from what it used to be. It is downright disgusting nowadays.

[Tobin S.]

50. WTF is with the hatred for dots around here?

The thread you were referring to was mocking another poster. I'll assume you didn't know that since you don't hang around here much.

I've been a lounge regular since 2003 and I don't have a problem with the place except for that nasty little period a few years back when everybody was hating on each other resulting in a bunch of bans. Other than that I've gotten along fine here...with everyone. Well, there was that one guy, but he was outed as a conservative troll.

[CreekDog]

56. i don't hate dots

but they sure are fun to talk about!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

52. I agree with Jamastiene.

Extremely gross bodily function threads, anal sex jokes, assorted TMI is disgusting & juvenile. I don't have a problem with bad words in most instances.

Hell, I love Lewis Black's humor which is full of F-bombs.

However calling people "twats" and "cunts" goes too far.

I think there are in-crowds here as well.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

53. I don't think the lounge is overly rude or overly clique-ish

Like the rest of DU there is no is no nudity (posted at least, you can still read the lounge naked at home), and the general vibe is liberal and relaxed. I've seen FAR more clique behaviour in other groups. The lounge largely consists of music video threads, silly pictures, and threads offering support for DU'ers going through a tough time.

I've posted many OPs that have gotten ignored, buried or missed and never lost any sleep over it. Its like walking into you're local tavern; you go in to have a beer and relax, and if you strike up a good conversation with the person or group standing beside you, then great, if not, you go home but stop in again another evening. Being the centre of attention, enforcing political correctness, or debating serious issues doesn't belong here.

Thats my 2¢

[ohiosmith]

60. Your 2 cents is worth a $million!

[HappyMe]

61. Well said.

[GoneOffShore]

65. Thanks Joe - I'm with you on this..

I'm in the same boat as you.

I've posted many OPs that have gotten ignored, buried or missed and never lost any sleep over it.

In fact, I've sometimes replied to a longish Lounge thread that was "trending" and it dies. Sometimes I think I'm a "thread killer". .... Except when I post in Meta and then nothing happens except they keep going around in circles.