Question for DUers who grew up religious, and rejected that relgion

[clyrc]

How long did it take you to be free of all the ideas crammed into your head at such an early age? I ask because I am almost 42, and it's been 24 years since I rejected my parent's religion, but parts of it are still with me. It took me about 20 years to stop waking up at night terrified of eternal hellfire. Now, deep down I feel like I deserve the bad times coming at me because I dared too much, and had too much fun. A part of me is meekly thinking, well, I deserve it. One of my mom's favorite sayings ( second only to "no sex outside of marriage" ) was "take what you want- and then pay for it." I have tried and tried to get out of the mindset I grew up with, because it doesn't make much rational sense to me, but it is much harder than it should be.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. I left my parents' religion when I was 20, and never looked back.

Parts of it are still with me. (I'm in my late 60's now.) But they don't bother me. I just never really bought it.

You might consider getting into some sort of therapy if this stuff is still keeping you awake. I've done that for other things, and it has really helped.

Having another competent, caring professional listen to you is truly enlightening!

[clyrc]

2. Finding a competent, caring professional is one problem

I was seeing a therapist I really liked, and she did help me, but she told other people things that should have been confidential. I wish I knew how to find a trustworthy therapist.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. She should be reported.

That is a real breach of confidentiality. She should not discuss your situation with anyone.

Just keep looking.

I wish I could give you better suggestions...

[clyrc]

4. She retired this year

I appreciate your responses, so don't worry about better suggestions. There are times when I feel like I'm so alone in my experiences that it's good to get some sort of reply to a question.

I had a suspicion that the therapist wasn't totally trustworthy, but she was very likable and I told her more than I should have simply because she was there and there was no one else to really talk to about what was bothering me. I'm not absolutely certain she told anyone my secrets, but I know she told other people things a friend had told her in confidence.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

5. I understand your loneliness...

I hope that in some small way I have helped you feel less alone...



That is the mark of a good therapist: You can tell them anything, and they will keep it in confidence, and treat you with respect. This is how mine is. She has helped me enormously.

I wish you luck!

[Duer 157099]

6. Didn't grow up in religion, so can't really help you there

although I did do several years of self-imposed immersion in a very fundamental Christian mindset, so I also know what that is like, and after rejecting it, waiting many years before I was truly free of the last vestiges. It was an amazing feeling when I finally knew I was free from it. The test, for me, was to blaspheme god and not feel a goddamned thing, not guilt, not fear, nothing.

So I hope you can get to that point (or rather, whatever point you want to get to. Mine was extreme). Keep working on it, I think it can be done.

But again, my case was very different and yet it took years to get over, even though none of my indoctrination happened when I was a child. So I can only imagine how difficult it is for you.

But the eventual freedom from fear is something amazing to behold, so don't give up.

[clyrc]

29. I won't give up, but

I think it's such a waste of emotional energy to have to deal with this when intellectually I left it behind 20plus years ago.

[Suich]

7. This is my way of bookmarking, clyrc.

I'm headed to bed...will respond tomorrow.

[RainDog]

8. 18 y/o

tho there are things you're taught that stay with you in various ways - you can also work to be mindful of them.

I think the most important thing to remember is that we're all human and, thus fallible. We all make mistakes. All of us. Then we go on.

if you've never read Feeling Good, a book about cognitive/behavioral therapy, I recommend it (it's a mass market paperback - cheap.)

The guy has lists of useless thought patterns - many of which are very much like religious indoctrination - and then helps people break down those thoughts and analyze them for yourself to see how you punish yourself with them.

One of the best things to do is focus on other things, rather than those psychologically harmful things you were taught. Put other things in your brain.

[clyrc]

9. I have gotten good at talking myself out of thinking certain ways

But it only works when I'm awake and things aren't in too much chaos. I just identified this morning that I was thinking that I deserved anything bad that happens to me in the future, and I asked myself, why would that be? And it doesn't stand up to reason. But it irritates me that the old way of thinking is still there, waiting in the background until things get difficult.

My husband thought I was freaking out beyond all reason when his mother announced her intention to take my girls to church with her every Sunday. He said it never hurt him ( different religion, and anyway it never "took" with him the way it did with me) but I said a loud and panicked no. I simply never had any intention of putting my daughters through the same thing I go through. I'm not actually anti-religion, or at least not out loud, and I've told my girls that it is up to the to decide about the role of religion in their lives.

[Tobin S.]

10. Do you have a "what if" thing going on?

What if all that stuff they said about sin and hell was true? What if God is really watching my every move and will sentence me to eternal damnation for the least little unrepentant sin? What if the scientific theory of life on Earth really is an illusion created my Satan to test my faith? What if it is blasphemous to question the existence of God? What if God allows bad things to happen to people who don't believe or question him?

The whole mind set of many churches is fear. If you don't do or believe as they say then you will suffer eternally. I think that's what keeps many people coming back and putting money in the offering plate. They sell fear and people are literally buying it. If God exists then he created you with a rational mind and wants you to think for yourself. If God is love then he certainly would not want you fearing him.

[clyrc]

30. Sometimes, when I'm asleep

I know because I used to wake up scared of hellfire, but I could always talk myself out of it- after a while.

[RainDog]

18. patriarchal religion is, imo, harmful for females

females are taught to hate themselves and devalue themselves through xtianity.

they are taught to take shit from bad people.

that's not just my opinion - but it is also my opinion.

when my family tried to guilt me into raising my children in a church or worried that people would think my children were bastards because I didn't take my husband's name - I just ignored them.

but I had many friends who thought about these things in the same way that I did, which makes such stances easier, and I lived hours away from family members.

if your m-i-l attends a church that insists on teaching women are less than men, I would tell her, if she wants to take them to church, she needs to find one that doesn't teach such shit-for-brains doctrine.

[blueamy66]

11. Grew up VERY Catholic.

I still believe, but don't agree with all of the Church's teachings.

I don't attend Mass, but find myself in a Church every now and then.

I was never taught about "eternal hellfire".

I'm sorry that you are struggling.

[wysimdnwyg]

12. It was a gradual process for me

I will admit that the church I attended growing up was fairly moderate (and has since gone full blown liberal with a lesbian pastor), and I was not overtly pressured into an oppressive level of faith. Still, it was a Southern Baptist-associated church (at the time), and faith was a significant part of our lives - especially my stepmother, who joined the family when I was 12. Away for college, I stopped attending church, and only went a couple of times to the old one during visits home. I would say I was 18 the last time I went to a standard service.

While not particularly religious, I still considered myself a believer for several years after that, although I can look back and see how the cracks started to appear. In my early 30s, after reading the bible again for the first time in years, I realized that I could not accept anything in it as more than an interpreted (and usually misinterpreted) account of certain historical events. I no longer accepted the belief in an omniscient, all-powerful god. While the overall process was gradual, I went very quickly from a casual believer right past agnosticism into full-blown atheism.

I do understand how throwing off the last vestiges of a belief system forced upon you as a child can be difficult, but it's OK to have some subconscious remains of those beliefs. I still catch myself on a rare occasion thinking about "God", but as soon as I do, I realize that I do not believe that, it's just a remnant of what I was taught as a child.

[rurallib]

13. Grew up Catholic, pretty much left the church 40 years ago

but it is simply hard to avoid christianity in general and catholicism in particular. Both are woven into the fabric of everyday life.
Ergo it took me probably 30+ years to set aside almost all the beliefs.
I still like the catholic doctrine of social justice, even though the church seems to reject it.

One thing for sure, I have a great background for learning about religion and its influence on culture.

[RebelOne]

14. Was a Southern Baptist as a child.

My mother made me go to church, Sunday school and vacation bible school even though she did not attend herself. When I was in my teens, I switched to the Episcopalian church, but dropped out after a few years. I became a full-blown atheist when I was in my early 40s.

[Neoma]

16. I was too.

I feel your pain.

[Neoma]

15. Well, probably since I was 13.

I didn't really take any of it seriously in the first place, so it was a pretty easy transformation.

[riderinthestorm]

17. Are you still religious or a believer in God?

(Obviously not your parents' religion anymore) but if you are still involved in any religion, you are going to be guilted into feeling like crap and fearful and anxious imho.

I stopped going to church as soon as I got to college. By the time I graduated I knew I was an unbeliever but didn't have enough courage in my fundie town to articulate my lack of faith out loud. By the time I was 25 I was an "out" atheist. I too had trouble leaving some parts behind but it was the religious conditioning parts like saying "thank god!" or bowing my head in prayer, even when I knew I wasn't going to pray. Or the bargaining with God - "please god if you just let this thing happen, I'll be a better believer...." Those parts of conditioned behavior took the longest to go away for me.

But the fear of eternal damnation or kharmic justice or god's punishment? As soon as I stopped trying so hard to have a relationship with God, all of that fear and anxiety stuff shedded off almost instantly. I honestly felt "free" the moment I stopped trying so damn hard to believe.

Sounds as though your fear and anxiety issues haven't resolved themselves but I'd guess that if you are still a believer, you are going to have issues with fear and anxiety. It's part of faith if you ask me. That whole "peace inside" crap that religions try to sell - its just a marketing ploy however with that said, if you are still a believer you should speak to your pastor/religious leader for some answers. If you are truly an atheist and are still wrestling with those demons, you need a counselor.

Good luck. ((((hug)))

[clyrc]

31. I'm now an agnostic Unitarian Universalist

and in my waking a sane hours, perfectly ok with that. It's the old way of thinking that creeps in when things are too difficult that bothers me.

[Broken_Hero]

19. It took me a few years

I was raised in a strong Mormon household, and I was basically done with church when I was 14, but was forced to go. When I turned 18 the pressure to serve on a mormon mission was very strong, and I fought against that greatly. I gave up on the church, and I officially began the "fuck your church Mom/Dad" war, around Xmas of 95. It took me about 2-3 years to shake off a lot of indoctrination, but it wasn't that hard to do.

The hardest aspect was trying to get my parents to officially stop trying to "save" me, I cannot recall how many times missionaries, or folks from the church I grew up in try to save me from my life of sin. The war hasn't ended either, I thought last summer when my parents were visiting the war was over, because it was the first time in AGES that my mom didn't bring up anything church wise, but that officially ended ten days ago when I got a letter from a local Mormon Ward inviting me over for Xmas stuff. After confronting my mother about the Xmas letter I got from the Ward, she confessed that she got in contact with them and asked them to try and get me active in church again...the shit never ends.

For times of hardship I don't think I deserve it persay, I chalk it up to its my time to carry the load of horseshit for a while, good times/bad times are a circular issue to me, lately I haven't had to carry the load of horseshit, but I know my shift is coming up soon.

[clyrc]

32. My mom rarely brings it up anymore

but she used to. I am not an assertive person, but eventually I had to make it clear that she couldn't make me believe in what I didn't believe in. My battles with her when I was 18 actually made me sick, but I didn't back down, for once, because it was either stand up for myself or lie constantly.

[Broken_Hero]

42. Thats good,

that your mother rarely brings it up. The fights I had with my mother were epic, in your face and graphic. At first I was very nice, and calm but over a short period of time I had to become very assertive to get my point across, but she thinks its a funny game. Its not a game though, I just want to be left alone on this subject, whatever I believe, or don't believe is my burden/choice.

My usual weapon of choice fighting back with my mother, is talking up how good Satan was, and what a bad rap he got, and I use scripture against her. I once bought a Miroslav Satan jersey(he is a hockey player), just to piss her off.

Its hard for me to let that aspect go, it was a rough fight with my parents, not nearly as bad as it use to be...it doesn't take much to bring it back though.

[clyrc]

43. I try to remember that my mom really is afraid I'm going to hell

and who wants that for their child? But I finally got the upper hand when I had kids because she figured that if she pushed too hard I wouldn't let her have contact with them. She still makes her sly comments, which I try to ignore, but mostly we just don't talk about it.

[susanr516]

20. Well, I'm 57 and still struggle

Born and reared conservative Southern Baptist. I broke away the first time when I was about 20, wandered back into it when I was in my mid-30s, left for good about 10 years later.

Even when I was a child, I questioned a lot of it. It seemed like the most hate-filled people I knew were staunch church members. As I grew older, I really questioned whether there was a God. Strangely enough, I became a Democrat because it seemed to me that the Democratic platform was much more Christ-like than the Republicans'. I finally left for good when it became obvious that the church actively discouraged rational thought. I realized that 90% of the people sitting in the pews were so brain-washed that, if told it was the Christian thing to do, carry out all kinds of atrocities, with smiles on their faces because they were doing "God's will." I walked away and never looked back. To this day, the most hateful, hypocritical people I know are the ones who never miss a church service.

I also have problems equating tough times and bad things happening with the thought that God is punishing me. When my children hit rough patches, I keep remembering some Bible verse I was taught about the sins of the fathers being visited upon their children, and I feel guilty. The biggest problem I have is that my former church was one of those "Rapture-ready" types and sometimes current events make me frightened that they were right and now I will burn in Hell.

I keep telling myself that none of what I was taught was rational, but a lot of the BS got slipped into my mind before I was capable of rational thought, so I don't have any real filtering mechanism for it. It's weird, but I think a lot of what Jesus said in the Bible is a good way to live one's life, I just think of Jesus more like a philosopher than a deity. I have a feeling I will always struggle with the guilt and sin/punishment aspects of what I was taught. I was terrified of God; he seemed to be a harsh, judgmental being who liked seeing people suffer for their sins. To be honest, I'm still scared of the concept of a God.

[clyrc]

33. Southern Baptist for me, too

So I understand all of that. You know, they talk about Catholic guilt, but I think Southern Baptist guilt is pretty potent, too. I am still fond of the Jesus I learned about in Sunday school, but "big church" was so relentlessly scary!

[Arugula Latte]

21. Religion = Pantload

Maybe a little humor will help. But that is the bottom line -- you realize you were sold a pantload when you were a child, and you don't need to carry that nonsense around anymore.

[RueVoltaire]

22. That deserves an Amen!

[applegrove]

23. I was brought up presbyterian. I liked the golden rule and the bible stories about

Last edited Sat Dec 31, 2011, 02:44 AM - Edit history (1)

doing good in the world. I remember, when I was about 10 or 11, the kids in our church got on a bus to visit a synagog and talk to the rabbi there. At that young age. I was impressed with the idea that we should proactively seek to understand our differences as human beings. It was definitely an important moment in my life. My grandparents were all very kind, very good people who attended church. I am agnostic but litter my vocabulary with the word god all the time. I also like people who walk the walk of the golden rule - wherever I find them, religious or not.

[clyrc]

34. I like the golden rule, too

I haven't rejected everything I ever learned in church, just the stuff that doesn't make any sense to me now.

[applegrove]

48. I don't remember much about Sunday School. So I read the harrowing old testament as an adult.

I saw it only as an incredible history book. Don't remember much about it now either. But I cannot say I was not positively affected by religion. Protestanism has given me much. A good base.

[clyrc]

51. It isn't all negative

but the hell fire thing is a bit much. It scared me so badly when I was a kid, and stayed in my brain too long. And while I will concede that there were good things about the religion ( it certainly taught me to think about others and to take responsibility for my actions) I don't know that it makes up for the bad stuff. I could have learned the good stuff another way.

[applegrove]

53. We were presbyterians. We didn't get the hellfire sermons. I could well imagine those would be

stressful on a young heart and mind.

[clyrc]

55. Be glad you missed out on those

[eridani]

24. What got me on the path out was actually doing one of my high school resolutions

--reading the Bible cover to cover. So many of the actions (never mentioned in Sunday school or religion class, oddly enough) looked fondly upon by a supposed supreme deity made me gag. No way I'd invite anyone like that over to dinner, let alone worship He/She/It.

Of course you can take the kid out of Catholic high school, but never Catholic high school out of the kid--not an altogether bad thing. I used to give up candy for Lent, and now I give up fast food to save the rain forest. I feel obligated to donate to every good cause, and find it hard to say no.

[clyrc]

36. I try to keep the good things, too

like "love thy neighbor as thyself."

[Generic Brad]

25. Maybe you don't have to totally reject it

Just because the entire belief system didn't work for you, there are positive takeaways from every religion. Embrace the positive and use what works for you. There is no shame in doing that in my eyes.

I'm an atheist who was raised Catholic.

[clyrc]

37. I do that, but I hate the way the stuff I rejected lingers

i have other problems I need to deal with, without having to take time to struggle with things I left behind years ago.

[closeupready]

26. Raised and confirmed Catholic, I left gradually. I don't think

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I'll ever be free of the ideas and training and guilt associated with it.

I tend to steer very clear on a personal basis of anyone religious or certainly, anyone dogmatically Catholic. I'm gay, so I can't let strict religious people in my life if I can help it. At least, not ones that toe all the religious dogma and doctrine.

Most people like to pretend that they are free of the baggage that comes with the religion they were raised with, but the fact is that nobody really is ever free of how they were raised, including religion. Just the way it is.

[clyrc]

38. True enough

but it still irritates me.

[Curmudgeoness]

27. You think too much about it.

I was raised Presbyterian, and I remember when I was in catechism (about age 13), we had it drilled into us that other religions were so bad. They all had it wrong, and we had it right. That was when I first questioned this whole religion thing. I soon rejected established religion, but not god at that time. I think that the people who profess god so much and lived such evil lives put me over the edge (well, them, and that god did not strike them dead).

At that point, maybe I had done enough thinking about it so I did not have guilt about it. But I do not think much about it anymore. What happens, happens. Good things happen to bad people, and bad things happen to good people. All the time. There is no sense to much of it. We all still have parts of what we learned in us---you cannot get away from it. Focus on what was good that you are carrying with you: Treating people well, helping the poor, ridding yourself of prejudices, thou shalt not kill, etc. There is a lot of good in what you were taught---and hell and damnation is not the good part.

And your mom might be right about "take what you want, and then pay for it". Same as "you made your bed, now lie in it". Maybe there are things that you did that are weighing you down. But that is in the past and you can only move forward, so put your focus on what you can do. But it really doesn't have to have anything to do with "sin" and all the other religion baggage. It is life.

[clyrc]

39. If you think about "take what you want, and then pay for it"

as a reminder about taking responsibility, then yes, it isn't such a bad thing. If is is a reminder that everything pleasant has to be evil at its core, well that is another thing. That "evil" strain that runs through a certain kind of religious thinking taints everything. When I'm awake and calm, I know that. It's when I'm not guarding against such thinking that it grabs me again.

[PassingFair]

28. Try thinking about it this way:

[IMG][/IMG]


...damned if you do, damned if you don't!

[clyrc]

40. That made sense to me 24 years ago

[ScreamingMeemie]

35. Honestly? It took one moment. One action. One death that will never make sense...

no matter how much the God people talk about it making sense in some twisted, truly fucked up way. Just that moment. And it was gone. All of it.

[clyrc]

41. I can see how that would wipe it all out

And I am sorry that happened to you.

[OriginalGeek]

44. Independent, Fundamental, Bible-Believing Baptist

Went to their high school too. I started having questions pretty early and by the time I graduated from high school I was pretty sure I didn't believe any of it but it took a few more years before I was able to call my self an atheist. I left home at 17 shortly after graduating and never looked back.

That was 31 years ago. Not sure I'll ever be "free" of all the ideas - for one thing, my little brothers are still into it and constantly try to get me back into the fold. But I can't in good conscious partake in any of that any longer so I just mostly ignore them.

[deucemagnet]

45. I stopped going to church at around 20, never considered myself an athiest until about 40.

My family is Catholic, though, so no fire and brimstone, just a lot of guilt.

Looking back on it now, that's a big chunk of my life that would have been better spent as an athiest.

[clyrc]

46. I can't make the leap to athiest, and I'm not church free

I love the Unitarian Universalist church because it is so free, but there is no UU church where I live.

There are certain parts of my religious upbringing I don't have a problem with. And even going to the UU church is partly to recapture that "clean" feeling I used to get when I got out of church when I was young. I don't have a problem with some remnants, just the destructive and pointless ones.

[PassingFair]

47. Have you tried the Quakers?

There might be a meeting house near you.

[clyrc]

49. I have a friend who is a Quaker, but no meeting house here

I live in the UAE, and there are some churches here, but not a lot.

[PassingFair]

50. Well, that certainly narrows your options!

I suggest therapy in that case.

Just so that you're talking it out
with someone.

[ScreamingMeemie]

52. There are some of us who just don't care enough to label ourselves.

I can't be bothered with either believing or the belief that has become not believing. In other words...I simply don't care. And I don't have the energy to be offended by a "Bless you" when I sneeze, or a sports figure giving thanks to "God" for his prowess. Why bother? I'm a realist I guess then.

[clyrc]

54. I've tried being a realist

It worked right up to the point when I realized I had "practical approached" myself right into trouble. Life plays funny, and not so funny, games with us.