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Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsDemocratic Underground, Underground?
I am not aware of such a site, but I think that it would be a good thing to offer a darknеt version of DU. Here is why: there are a lot of people living in communities and neighborhoods which are very hostile to liberal ideas. Also a lot of people do not want to be identified because of potential backlash from employers and family. Using a pseudonym like I do is good enough for most people, but I feel some people might worry about having a connection to this site.
The site that I envision would also have moderators and obviously block illegal/violent content. I also think such an underground site that I envision would allow people to talk about more than just political issues, and it could be a hangout to discuss certain non-political topics like fun facts and family, kind of like Reddit but without the hostile moderators. It would be designed to allow people to communicate safely while resisting identity verification/collection.
What do you think about this?
EarlG
(23,785 posts)What advantages would a darknet version (and tbh, Im not sure what that means) have over what already exists here?
Tasmanian Devil
(295 posts)If the Rapist Felon continues to characterize Democrats as Communists, as left-wing views as treasonous, as terrorist Antifa members hiding under every rock -- we should expect the full force of the feds to come down on us.
Would DU survive a demand for all the IP addresses and emails of its members? Could the DOJ (or Palantir) link those emails to real people? Could those people be interrogated, imprisoned or deported?
How many DU users are in fear of ICE? Or should be?
Disclaimer: I'm not a darkweb expert, but I would guess that having access to DU via the darkweb might provide some protection beyond an individual's (your) resistance to oppression?
EarlG
(23,785 posts)Facebook and other social media platforms simply hand their data over to the government because they want the government to do them favors. DU doesn't operate on anywhere near that scale, and so I would argue that the risk is considerably lower. Even if such a demand were made, the EFF or the ACLU would likely jump at the chance to defend a private American business against the government's demands for its user data.
Could the government try it anyway? Sure, but it would be a very large amount of effort in exchange for what would be pretty paltry amount of information. When you register at DU, we ask for a username -- which the vast majority of people create as a pseudonym, without giving any hint of their real identity -- and we ask for an email address. This email address can be a throwaway email address -- as long as you can receive a password to it, then you can join DU. We also have IP address information which can be linked to a username/email address combination.
So in order for this to be of any use, the government would have to go through a court case, or series of court cases, which they are likely to lose, and if they win, they'd get a list of IP addresses which can be used to tie a pseudonym and an email address to a vague geographic location. It would be an insane amount of effort for very little return.
Alternatively, they can just shake hands under the table with Facebook and all the other social media sites for free, and get millions of people's real names, addresses, phone numbers, occupations, education histories, medical conditions, photos, videos, likes, dislikes, friends, families, etc. etc. I think it's far more likely that they will just stick to that than bother with DU.
In addition, moving to the dark web would create the following problems:
1) No advertising revenue, which means no money to run DU. Star Memberships do not bring enough money in on their own. And even if they did...
2) Nobody would be able to find DU. You can't search up dark web sites with Google or DuckDuckGo, and you need special software to get there, which most people don't have and aren't inclined to want to learn.
3) It would make DU look like an actual risk. Democratic Underground is a legitimate business, operating in the open, exercising our First Amendment rights. Sites operating on the dark web are basically putting up a flashing sign saying "Hey, we're criminals." Why do that?
I understand that these are difficult times and people are concerned about this sort of thing. I offer this up as something I hope will help people to worry less.
Edited to add: Er, if you're a social media user it might not help you worry less. The point I'm trying to make is that if the government starts mass-imprisoning and interrogating people based on what they do online, they're not going to start with DU because they have all of social media at their disposal. Currently they are not rounding people up in this manner, and hopefully that will remain the status quo.
Tasmanian Devil
(295 posts)What I was thinking of was a dual-port site, so that people could connect to DU via the public web or via the darkweb. So the site could accommodate the spectrum of paranoia -- from no-worries to my-visa-has-expired.
Btw, if you google (er, duck-duck-go) 'advantages of using the darknet' you'll find more than a few positive reasons for the darkweb -- it's not all drug dealers, hackers and spies.
E.g. https://www.makeuseof.com/dark-web-legitimate-uses/
Humor: from the above:
...
Surprisingly, some of our favorite social media platforms on the surface web, among them Twitter and Facebook, have launched mirror sites on the dark web for users who wish to avoid government monitoring.
I suspect the GOP already has all of the private info stored with Twitter (duh), Facebook, Instagram, et al. But I've read that to get a US visa you're required to turn over all your social media accounts and make them public access. So access via the darkweb might give some reassurance that they could omit DU from their public profiles. Our free speech rights are clearly not applied to people begging to be let into the country.
Ofc proper use of anonymous email and VPN's makes this unnecessary, but I think that evaluating VPNs and anonymous email services is beyond the tech abilities of most people. But ... encouraging darkweb use might be a net poor idea -- e.g. more exposure to scams and malware for DU users, and guilt-by-association for even using Tor.
And yes, I hope that all of this is just excessive paranoia. But then I look at the requests for voting rolls and I have to think they're going to challenge every registered Democrat.
Btw, thanks for your thoughtful reply. DU is an invaluable resource!
Cirsium
(4,290 posts)Welcome aboard.
-misanthroptimist
(2,118 posts)Iggo
(50,176 posts)Ptah
(34,198 posts)flvegan
(66,740 posts)A-Schwarzenegger
(15,842 posts)zanana1
(6,630 posts)Something about your post gave me the willies. The book is about Nazis in Paris.