Need advice with a family issue...maybe just to vent.

[PassingFair]

My husband's sister is a well-off corporate attorney who works and lives in Europe.
She is single and has no children. She is a self-professed "foodie".

Whenever she comes home, she arranges for everyone to get together in VERY
expensive restaurants to celebrate.
I went along with this a few times, but it is beginning to get on my nerves BIG TIME.
Also, I am currently unemployed (and she knows it).
When we "get together" it typically costs my husband and I over $400 for dinner and drinks.

The last time she was here, she wanted to go out to dinner. When I got home from work,
I found out she had made reservations at one of the most expensive restaurants in the city.
I told her that we couldn't afford it. She then offered to pay for us all. I didn't think that was a good
idea either. It became a big deal, because she had to call and cancel the reservations
and I felt like a total shit-heel. We ended up going to an affordable, local restaurant.
She knows how I feel about this restaurant thing.

Well, I just got an email today, she is coming home in a couple of weeks, for her birthday,
and she wants everyone to meet at ANOTHER expensive restaurant. My husband's siblings
are all better off financially than we are, so I guess they don't have a problem with this, but
I am livid.

Let me add that my husband considers himself something of a "foodie" as well, and likes nothing
better than to quaff down expensive bottles of wine and stuff himself with expensive food. I have
nothing against him going out with her together and spending a small fortune, and they do it often
when she is in town. My issue is her requesting WHOLE FAMILIES to spend this kind of money.

I have offered to have a party for her at our house, but that is not her idea of a celebration.


Here is her email:

Hi everyone,
I am planning to be home the weekend of December 6th. We have Management Meeting in XXXX December 10-12th so I decided to come home the weekend before to visit.
Any chance you all are available for dinner on Saturday, December 7th? I was thinking someplace downtown … maybe (HIDEOUSLY EXPENSIVE RESTAURANT.) I should probably get a reservation so let let me if this works.
SISTER 1 mentioned that she, John and the girls might be able to make it in that weekend. I don’t think I’ll be home for Christmas this year … Marco will be in Italy and KVA and Michael have invited me to come to their place in Dusseldorf.

Talk to you soon,

Rich Sibling

The thing is, I love my sister-in-law and am happy that we will get to see her again. I just don't want
to shell out $500 bucks for dinner. As you can see from the email, some siblings are driving down for the "event"
and bringing children.
We will be conspicuous by our absence, and my husband will probably get mad at me if I refuse to go.

I think I will end up just going with my husband and make up some excuses for my daughters.

What would YOU do?

[rug]

1. Let her pay.

[HERVEPA]

2. Easy. Let her pay.

[ZombieHorde]

3. I agree with Rug. Let her pay. nt

[PassingFair]

5. So in this particular instance, I should respond to her email.....

and say "Yes, this sounds great...if YOU'RE paying for it?"

Awkward!

[ZombieHorde]

13. She's your husband's sister, so I would first talk

to him about it, and have him reply to her email.

[PassingFair]

14. Yup...but he's not going to be happy about it.

My birthday was earlier this month, and when he asked me what I wanted to do,
I told him that I wanted him to contact all of my family members and tell them
that I wanted them to meet at the most expensive restaurant in town.

He got really mad at me, but it put her request in perspective for him.

[ZombieHorde]

15. Family politics can be very difficult. nt

[geardaddy]

42. Zing!

I love it.

[Chan790]

4. "I'm so sorry. We have previous plans we simply cannot break."

I would. A tub of Edy's and the last 6 episodes of season 1 of State of Play. Maybe a DiGiorno pizza if they're on sale between now and then.

It's my own special party and it costs less than $10.

[PassingFair]

7. I could try this....but she might shuffle the date! nt

[A HERETIC I AM]

6. I agree. Not only let her pay, INSIST she does and while you are at the table.....

order the 3rd most expensive wine on their list.

Not the first...the 3rd.


Nothing like a several hundred dollar bottle of Bordeaux to drive the point home!

Edit: Ordering the MOST expensive wine is a bit over the top!

[PassingFair]

8. As you can see from the email, she has not, in this instance, offered to pay.

But if my husband tells her that I am uncomfortable with the prices, she
will probably offer to pay.

I don't really want to mooch off of her. I just wish the whole thing would just go away.

I feel churlish.

[Arugula Latte]

9. I would just let her know the prices are too much for you.

And if she offers to pay, take her up on it. What the hell. She's putting you in an awkward position -- she should pay.

[PassingFair]

10. I'll have my husband tell her...but he might refuse to do it.

If she's paying for us, it will be awkward when the bill comes and everyone
else throws their credit cards in for the split.

ACK!!! WHY does she DO this?

[Aristus]

12. Hmm. I think you said the perfect thing just then:

"I'm not comfortable with the prices at Restaurant X". That's a perfect thing to say to her.

It's a pretty good way to broach the subject. It's neither accusatory, nor judgemental. And it opens your sister-in-law up for a response that could solve the problem, since you haven't put her on the spot with something like: "Why do you always suggest the most expensive restaurant?"

[PassingFair]

18. Yeah. Well....we'll see how the chips fall.

Not really a huge problem to have, eh?

It doesn't help that I would have a problem spending so much
money for dinner under any circumstances.

[nomorenomore08]

46. You shouldn't feel guilty about her treating you.

#1, she's far better off financially than you and your husband (or so you've indicated). #2, she's the one who wants to go so badly in the first place. After all, she didn't have to pick the most expensive spot, did she?

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

49. It would be mooching

if you had the money and acted like you didn't. She's got the bucks, probably likes being the big shot so let her pay. Maybe a private convo along the lines of 'you know our budgets are different and this event is out of our league but thanks for the invite'. If she offers and it sounds like you know she will, graciously accept

[Phentex]

16. Her invite. Let her pay...

Make sure your husband clears this with her up front and then DO NOT FEEL BAD AT ALL when the bill comes. Smile and say thanks. IF the others say anything, tell them this was all sister in law's idea. Frankly, she should pay the entire bill.

Now what my EX sister would do is offer to buy the most expensive wine and then drink most of it and then suggest everyone at the table split the bill.

I have not seen her in years.

[sammytko]

34. That is what I do - if I invite, i'm prepared to pay

But in this case, just go along with it. Make the husband get a part time job or sell something to pay for the meal.

[Avalux]

17. I think you're creating a problem where there isn't one.

Here's the thing - she obviously gets a lot of enjoyment out of going to high end restaurants, and apparently so do her siblings (your husband included).

Don't look at it as a money issue; look at it as her wanting to spend time with the people she loves.

How would you feel if she excluded your family, and didn't invite you knowing you can't pay? Instead she invites you and then offers to pay for your meals - so she can SPEND TIME WITH HER FAMILY. You said you love her, so go to dinner, let her pay, and have a good time!

[PassingFair]

19. Well, she hasn't offered to pay.

Although she has offered in the past, after I've protested.

I can see her side, but it does make me feel like this:

CHURL (noun)
The noun CHURL has 3 senses:

1. a crude uncouth ill-bred person lacking culture or refinement
2. a selfish person who is unwilling to give or spend
3. a bad-tempered person

[Avalux]

20. I'd bring it up again then...

let her know (or better yet, your husband can tell her) that the restaurant she's selected is too expensive. If she offers to pay, then allow her to do it. If she doesn't, don't go.

Does she say things that are degrading and make you feel like a churl, or is that coming from you? You shouldn't feel like that no matter what. Having money does not make a person refined or 'better' in any way.

[PassingFair]

22. No, it's all on my part.

But, again, this is not a first time occurrence.

It happens frequently. When she lived here, it was no big deal...
she would just go out with my husband. I have no problem with him
dropping $100....but $500 is just TOO much!

[DFW]

21. I'd just put it in simple terms

"Look, you are well aware of our financial situation, and that we can not afford anything of the sort. If you want to pick up our tab, then fine, but otherwise, we have to pass. Your call."

End of story.

(Düsseldorf? That's my neck of the woods!)

[PassingFair]

23. Maybe you guys could meet for dinner!

Bring your wallet!!

[DFW]

25. LOL!!

Tell them we're in for the Hummerstübchen if they are picking up the tab. It's about 130 euros a person.

[PassingFair]

27. Dang....just looked that up!

I would enjoy being a mooch there!

[DFW]

29. Been there exactly once

A neighbor recommended we take my sister and her husband there when they visited from NJ. We did, and I gulped when I got the bill.

I have NEVER eaten at a place before where a 500 euro bill did NOT cover the entire bill and provide me with a lot of change. At the Hummerstübchen, it wasn't even enough for a meal for four!!!

Now it WAS great food, but I STILL felt kinda foolish shelling out that kind of bread for a dinner for four. That came out to about $180 per person, and while I'm not a poverty case, we usually don't spend that kind of money on food (including going out) in a month.

[PassingFair]

26. "Kids" are 18 and 22....

Old enough to want to go.
Caring enough to understand my balking.

[AngryAmish]

28. My foodie family tends to cook at home

That way we are good and drunk by the time we eat - it makes the food taste better and we get on each other's nerves less.

But seeing as how this about you and not me my advice is that your plan (hubby and you) seems to be a good one. If she asks about the kids say you can't afford it. She may say that she would have paid say that you are not comfortable about that. HOWEVER, this is your husband's job.

For years when I was poor I pretended that I had more money than I had. It made some things real awkward lying to my friends why I could not go places, trips etc. Finally, I just told the truth and they stopped inviting me.

[PassingFair]

30. Yeah...

My plan formulated as I typed my rant....

It is interesting that so many people are counseling me to let her pay though....perhaps
I take a dimmer view of accepting her largess than I should.

I want to thank you and everyone else for your advice!

[DFW]

31. By the way, my younger daughter is also an international corporate attorney in Europe

She is a German citizen, and works for the German arm of a big British law firm. She in only 28, and has only been there 3 years, so she doesn't take home obscene bucks (or euros) yet, but she does a hell of a lot better than 95% of 28 year olds I know.

[mulsh]

32. Your sister in law is a phonie not a foodie. I speak from a foodie mecca, the SF bay area.

I"m also a bit of a foodie and former professional cook.

Expensive restaurants are fine, some of them are exceptional but true foodies will go nearly anywhere from roach coach trucks to Masa's in search of great food. Any idiot can read reviews and blow big bucks on a dinner and intimidate their companions. It takes ingenuity, research and sometimes a bit of courage to find great food. Great food, at least in my area rarely costs an arm and a leg.

Let her pay for your family to eat at one of her overpriced clip joints.

I suggest you try to find a moderately priced outstanding reastaurant in your area and take her there. If you live in an area with a lot of restaurants it shouldn't be hard. Dining is one of life's great pleasures if it makes you feel intimidated there's something wrong with the people you're dining with.

[cdsilv]

33. Find a local homeless mission and suggest that she cater a 'foodie' dinner for them, REALLY give....

...back to the community. Sure, celebrating with family is good and fine, but all of ya'll pitching in to help those much less fortunate will give you all a good feeling....

[avebury]

35. I know that you love your husband's

family but it is totally insane to be dragged into dining at really expensive restaurants if you cannot afford it. If your sister-in-law and the rest of the family are aware of your finanical situation it is highly insensitive for them to pressue your family into attending. If your husband is not willing to stand up to his family then let him attend and stay home with your daughters. Let your husband get mad at you, someone has to be the adult in your family and it sounds like it is going to have to be you.

Have you considered writing your monthly income and budget down and then sitting down with your husband. Tell him dinner out with his family will cost you approximately $ amount of money. Based upon your income and budget, what does your husband propose cutting out on order to pay for one meal (touching savings is not allowed). Is there even room in your budget to cut other items in order to come up with the money needed for this meal? What is he willing to give up just to have one meal?

Consider another thing, what kind of example are you setting for your daughters? You are teaching them that it is ok to blow large sums on expensive dinners when you really cannot afford it. Wouldn't fiscal responsibility be a better lesson?

Edit to add: You can always invite everyone over another night for dinner.

[Ikonoklast]

36. I invite my family out for dinner every Christmas when everyone is in town.

Twenty to thirty or so people all told, more or less.

They get to pick the place.

But it's MY invite, I pay the bill.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. Rich people REALLY don't understand what it's like to be without money

REALLY without money, not "I have to buy a $1.25 million house instead of a $2 million house," which is what rich people think of as poor.

They're capable of saying things like (and this is an actual quote from a letter to the Portland Oregonian many years ago), "I pay $100,000 a year in state and federal income taxes, but I'm not rich."

I know this from spending several years in graduate school at an Ivy League university. Some of the undergraduates were incredulous when I didn't have a trust fund, couldn't self-finance a year of study abroad, and wouldn't have been in grad school at all except for very generous financial aid.

Later, I had a friend who had grown up wealthy but was essentially broke, due to losing her job at age 55 and pretending it hadn't happened, getting along by selling her house (in which she had little equity) and draining her 401(k). Even when she was clearly broke, she would do things like sign up for a drawing and painting seminar in the Caribbean.

Tell your sister-in-law up front. "I'd love to join you, but we just can't afford it." She's family. You can be honest, even though she may have trouble processing the idea. If she offers to pay, take her up on it. That's what rich people are for Look at it this way: you're helping her do a good deed.

If she falls silent, say, "Maybe we can get together for coffee near your hotel instead."

On edit: I agree about the "phoney foodie" phenomenon. I once knew someone who made a show of ordering things that I KNEW just from reading the list of ingredients would be bad, tasting them, sending them back, and ordering something else. She also refused to eat anywhere that wasn't upscale, even if the food was good. There was a food court place run by an Indian family that served up curries to die for and freshly made naan, but she wouldn't even go near it because it was in a food court.

[PassingFair]

39. As I see it, I have two choices.

I can tell my husband to tell her that we don't think it's a good idea to spend that kind
of money right now, or I can just attend with my husband and leave our daughters at home.
That way my husband is happy and I don't put myself in a position of taking her charity.

The girls will be OK, as long as I pick up some Taco Bell or some-such for them before we go.

[KamaAina]

38. I read a story like this in my high school Spanish class

rich buddy shows up in poor buddy's town. Poor buddy doesn't want to let on that he is poor, so he takes him out to the finest restaurant in town and said, !Queremos langosta! (We want lobster!)

He basically bankrupted his family because he didn't want his rich buddy to know that he was poor. I think they ended up losing the house or something.

[hunter]

40. Bring your own dinner and ask the waiter for an extra plate.

I'm utterly shameless in situations like this.

[PassingFair]

44. Hahaha!

I hadn't thought about THAT!

[davidpdx]

62. Even better make it Taco Bell

Since the OP mentioned it up thread. Why not?

[patricia92243]

41. Eat something at home, and then order just appetizers at the restaurant. Hopefully they want your

company - not for you to spend a lot of money.

[geardaddy]

43. Ugh. That sounds awful.

I suggest a dine-n-dash, but don't forget to say "So, long suckers!" when you run out.

[PassingFair]

45. Maybe we can pretend to leave our wallets at home? nt

[pipi_k]

47. What I would do, seriously...

have a full meal at home, then go to the restaurant for dessert only. Maybe share an appetizer with hubby while the others have their meal. You get to spend time with the family and don't have to embarrass yourselves or feel like a moocher.


No way on earth I would even spend a hundred bucks on a meal, let alone what you guys have spent in the past...

[Beaverhausen]

48. Seriously, can't you just tell her you can't afford it?

You say you like her, and she has lots of money. You should be able to tell her the truth. She should be willing to cover you - happily. You really should put your foot down.

She is a one percenter. They live in another world where $500 dinners are common.

[PassingFair]

50. I've ALREADY told her before.

She knows.

Maybe she thinks she has to include us because she's going to include everyone else and doesn't want to exclude us.

Here's a kicker for you though....last month she emailed me and told me it would be a good idea if we celebrate my
HUSBAND'S birthday in another state, because they both want to go to try an obscure restaurant there. She just wanted
to "run it by me".

My husband had mused about it, and she was trying to implement it.

[TorchTheWitch]

51. Then she's a really selfish git

And if she's the one doing the inviting it's rude to make everyone else pay their own way. I'd just tell her to get stuffed and that she's not only horribly selfish but also a show off and rude as hell to boot knowing that this is not something you can afford, throws good money down the toilet better spent on saving for your future or for your kids education or whatever and that though she's the one doing the inviting she expects everyone else to pay their own way. No way in hell I'd go, and I'd be right pissed off if my spouse was blowing that kind of money for something so frivolous as a fancy dinner at an overpriced restaurant when that money is FAR better spent intelligently. Were this me I'd make it clear as can be made that if she kept this crap up, I'd go to the restaurant only to mash her plate full of food in her selfish face and then make her pay for it. But that's me. I'm not nice to selfish, rude show offs that expect me to spend hundreds of dollars they know I don't have just so they can preen about their own station in life. Family or not, an asshole is an asshole. She's not a foodie she's a selfish, rude show off at other peoples' expense including her own family's. It doesn't get much more asshole-ish than that.

[Sheldon Cooper]

52. Sounds like a marriage problem, and not a sister in law problem.

She may be a selfish jerk by inviting you to places she knows you can't afford. Or, she may just feel that if she doesn't invite you, that would look even worse.

But I don't think the problem is with her, rather I think it's with your husband. You can't agree on this, and no matter what you do, one of you will be angry and resentful. So, I would suggest that you send your husband alone, and you and your daughters stay home. This will allow him time with his family and their precious food (which seems to be more important than family, frankly) and allow you to take the least possible hit on your family budget. It may look awkward for him to attend without you, but remember that they made the choice to put food above all else.

[PassingFair]

58. This was my original response.

My husband got angry with me when I suggested it to him.

I agree that my husband is a big part of the problem.
He WANTS to go to the expensive restaurants, and he
wants us to be together with his family.

I could care less about the restaurant.

[Sheldon Cooper]

60. Two ways to respond:

If your budget can afford it, and you just don't like the coercive nature of it, then you may just have to bear up and suffer in silence.

But, if you really cannot afford it, yet your husband still insists on going, then he is immature and needs to grow up.

Nobody wins!

[davidpdx]

63. In terms of your husband I liked the advice in #35

It sounds like there is a very big difference between the two of you in how you view finances. The good thing is your kids could skip leaving just you and your husband.

If your husband really wants everyone to be together, tell him he's going to have to find a solution that is acceptable to both you and his sister. Put the ball back in his court and make him deal with it. Tell him you are willing to go if a solution is found. Let him approach his sister and talk to her. You shouldn't have to be put in the awkward place of having to try to settle the situation.

I hope it works out.

[B Calm]

53. $500.00 would feed a lot of people. You should volunteer her to work

at a homeless shelter!!

[IdaBriggs]

54. I had this as a smaller problem a few weeks ago.

One of my sisters came to town and wanted to meet the whole family at a very lovely steak house at 7:00 p.m.

We have six year old twins whose bedtime is 8:00 p.m. and who would be bored out of their mind at that level of an adult restaurant (long pauses between courses, etc.) plus the bonus of paying a lot for a nice restaurant. All of our babysitting options would either be there or weren't available.

We politely declined the invitation, and made arrangements to meet her the next day at my mom's house (so she could see the kids), then took her and a nephew to our favorite (inexpensively priced) chinese restaurant for lunch.

She got to spend quality time with grown-ups, see the kids when they weren't wigging out in exhaustion / boredom, and everybody was happy.

You need to focus on the GOAL - spending time together as a family. Realistically, you don't know which meeting will be the last you are ever blessed with (one of my sisters is dead at age 39), so if you *can* spend time together, you should - and that means letting your daughters spend time with her, too. HOWEVER, your budget concerns are not her problem - that is between you and your husband - so blaming her for "not paying attention to your finances" is, in my opinion, inappropriate. If you can afford it, sometimes you go to the fancy restaurant (because she likes it), and sometimes you go to Taco Bell (because your daughters like it), but most importantly, you spend time TOGETHER hopefully laughing and having fun.

She knows her brother likes "nice food" and that speaks well for their relationship that they have something they can talk about that *isn't* screaming at each other over fill-in-the-blank. You sound more frugal, and that is fine. She wants to build some positive memories with her family, and food is a traditional way of doing that. Casually mention (privately) that you are watching your budget; if she offers to pick up the tab, BE GRACIOUS and ACCEPT IT with gratitude instead of a bad attitude. If she doesn't, suggest meeting her for breakfast, or plan a lunch, or take her on a surprise picnic, or throw a poker party, or drag her to a special event that you know she would enjoy - whatever it takes, SPEND TIME TOGETHER.

My sister is dead. I always had more money than she did, and I wish we'd gone out together more. I'd have been happy to pick up the tab more often, but honestly, we didn't do those things often, and now we can't.

Like I said, focus on the GOAL: Having a Good Relationship with Positive Memories. Don't let your pride / shame / annoyance or perceived disrespect *on either side* stand in the way of THAT because Life Is Short.

My two cents for what it is worth. You can keep the change.

[noamnety]

55. The way I handle any invite nowadays

is that if it's something I want to go to, I go.
If I don't want to go, I politely decline.

It's not reasonable for you to tell her she can't pick a certain restaurant - you aren't the boss of her. And it's not reasonable to feel obligated to pay for something that's out of your budget, because she's not the boss of you.

I would send a gracious note back thanking her for the invite, saying you're going to pass because it's outside of your budget, but if she wants to get together for coffee someplace while she's in town, you'd love to spend time with her.

[PassingFair]

56. UPDATE....

My husband emailed her last night and we are going as a couple and will pay our own way.

I will get my daughters junk food that night, and they will certainly get to see
their aunt while she's here, although it looks as if all of their cousins will
be there.
Crappy position to be in, because she wants everyone there.

I would acccept money from her if we NEEDED it, and I would pay
it back, but I don't want to be seen as a charity case just to pay for
lobsters and a bottle of Pouilly Fuissé.

Thanks for all of your input!

[PasadenaTrudy]

57. Go and let her pay!

I wish I had a relative like that! You are so lucky. I'm a foodie and love wine

[mentalsolstice]

59. We've had somewhat the opposite problem

My SiL will call my husband to say one of her kids are in town, they want to go out to dinner. While they choose moderately priced chains (which we hate, we like inexpensive independently owned restaurants where the food is better), when the bill comes, they all look to my husband to pay. My SiL has even commented how she loves it when her son comes to town because she eats out free all week long, so we're not the only ones they mooch off of. We're not wealthy by any means, he's retired and I'm on SSDI...we just manage what we have well.

My husband and I used to go to a family owned breakfast place on Saturdays, and upon realizing this my SiL started showing up with one of her kids, plop herself down at our table, order, and then say she couldn't pay. We had to stop going for awhile. Later we had a good laugh with the owner, because she showed up a couple of times, order a beverage, and after realizing we weren't coming, she'd leave in a huff without ordering anything else.

In my experience, relatives have a lot of unrealistic ideas about each others capabilities, financially and otherwise.

We have had a similar problem to yours, but with friends. I agree with some of the others, you and your husband could split an appetizer, ask for it to be served with the others meals, and an inexpensive beverage. If anyone comments, say you're watching your food and alcohol intake.

[Captain Stern]

61. Let her know each time that you can't afford it....

....and if she keeps offering to pay, happily accept her generosity.

She would obviously prefer to pay and have you present, than not pay and have you absent. So, she wouldn't be picking up the bill just for your sake, but for hers as well.