Would love some of your good vibes, if you have any to spare

[LiberalEsto]

I'm worried about my daughter.

She refuses to see a doctor or get an MRI for a possible slipped disc .She works as a waitress and complains of bad back pain.

She refuses to get counseling for some serious depression and anxiety issues. She has become bulimic. She went through some traumatic stuff a year ago.

She's 27, lives at home, barely earns enough for gas money, refuses to finish an associate degree that would only require 3 more credits. Or even take an online class in Quickbooks that might help her find another job.

I don't know what to do.

[NYC_SKP]

1. Sending good vibes...

[In_The_Wind]

2. Good vibes on the way ~~~~~~~~~

[img][/img]

The only thing you can do is continue to love her. Also encourage her to rest with her back supported and her knees bent to reduce the strain on her lower back.

[mokawanis]

3. Sending good vibes

and hoping things get better for her. I'm sorry you're going through these struggles.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. Vibes incoming, my dear LiberalEsto...

She does sound seriously depressed. I am so sorry...

Wish I could suggest something that would help.

[applegrove]

5. I had back pain. Went for treatment for depression. The SSRI fixed my

Last edited Wed Dec 11, 2013, 02:45 AM - Edit history (1)

depression and my back pain. Turns out they were looking for a treatment for arthritis when they stumbled upon Selective Seritonin Reuptake Inhibitors as a cure for depression.

[nomorenomore08]

7. Talk about two birds with one stone. If only fixing everyone's problems were that simple.

[IrishAyes]

22. That's great news. Thanks for sharing.

[antiquie]

6. Good Thoughts

[nomorenomore08]

8. This makes me sad. Sounds like she's given up, to a certain extent.

Not an uncommon phenomenon among my generation, I'm afraid. Caused me to go astray for a couple years there, but at 29 I'm hopefully getting back on track.

[Brigid]

9. ((((vibes))))

For you and your daughter, LiberalEsto.

[rurallib]

10. A child with a problem you can't fix

and can no longer tell what to do.
You have my deepest sympathy and my best hopes for a good resolution.
Good luck

[elleng]

11. Oh Dear LibEst,

vibes:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[seabeyond]

12. i was sitting in the hospital getting sons back xrayed, when reading this.

16. hurt it. doc $200 sent him to hospital to get xray. we will find out about it tomorrow. but... the xray at hospital cost 111.28. just to clue you in. i imagine the doc will add some more to the bill telling us what he see. then he has two docs, one that operates, and one that works on movement, positioning ect.... that will be up there. if needed. i am hoping it will be a mere anti inflamatory drug.

i am sorry your daughter (and by extension, you all) are having a rough time right now. hoping for the best for you all.

take care.

[Kaleva]

13. Sending maximum vibes your way!

If she's living at your home, you ought to, IMO, set down some rules and standards she must meet for in order for her to stay at home. A couple of them ought to be that she must seek and get counseling for her depression and anxiety issues and see a doctor about her chronic back pain. If she doesn't, she knows where the door is.

As long as you are providing unconditional room and board, she really has no incentive to address her issues.

I hope the best for you and especially your daughter regardless of what you decide to do.

[IrishAyes]

23. With all due consideration and respect, depression is not a character issue.

"Shape up or ship out" is the wrong approach. She can't lift herself up by her bootstraps when she's shoeless.

[Kaleva]

37. It worked for my ex wife's youngest son.

He went into a steep nosedive after my ex finally did kick him out of the house and within a few months he had been expelled from school, evicted from the apartment he had gotten and was sitting in jail.

But that stint in jail apparently was his rock bottom and he turned things around when he was released. Instead of selling his psych meds, he began taking them as prescribed and he's seeing his psychiatrist at the appointed times. Got himself a full time job now and is living in a nice apartment with his new girlfriend. People he has owed money to he has paid back.

Living at home, he was just getting worse and worse. Yes, he went south in a drastic fashion within a few months after he was kicked out of the house but he reached a point where he realized he didn't want to be that way anymore and turned it around.

Edit: I'd like to add that I had been advising my ex for some months prior to her actually kicking him out that he ought to be told he had to leave. Mainly because I was concerned for her own well being. Both physically and mentally. He was just too much for her to deal with on her own. He was no longer a little kid anymore and had grown into a strong young man who had the attitude he could do what he wanted when he wanted.

[hunter]

26. Incentives and disincentives don't work for many mental health issues.

Trust me, without explaining myself, other than to say it's been a problem going back many generations in my family.

With us, it's this unconditional acceptance that is sometimes a threat, and not a disincentive to progress. Two of my siblings left home to work at sixteen, one of my siblings and I quit high school. (Oddly, that sibling and I who dropped out are the only ones to have graduated from university and beyond.)

There was zero structure in my parent's home. You learned at about the ages of six-to-eight that if you wanted clean clothes, you wash them yourself. If you wanted breakfast there was bulk cornflakes and dry milk in the pantry, and probably some kind of fruit.

The first time I was "asked" to leave college, my parents didn't even ask me what had what happened. I was just another relatively benign crazy person living in their house. (My crazy grandma was getting most of the attention at the time because she was the mean kind of crazy.) There were times I lived in my car because I didn't want to go home, even though I knew I'd be accepted unconditionally.

There were high expectations in the house, mostly of the respect-other-people sort, and the you-break-it-you-fix it sort, and buy your own beer, but these were not strongly correlated with society's expectations.

Middle and high school were my personal hell, I suffered a lot of bullying because I was an odd, skinny, squeaky kid, picked last in sports, remaining in the outfield looking at the grass or the sky, thinking about electronics or numbers or ants as the innings changed without me. But I always felt safe and secure at home, as I would with any of our family now should I quit my meds, abandon the support systems I've built, and retreat into my darkest mental states. Or I might just decide to be a street person.

My crazy grandma was a bag lady who happened to own her house and had a good pension. Eventually she had to be removed from her home as a danger to herself and others, and she'd get kicked out of nursing homes too. Without family looking after her she might have been a fairly "successful" bag lady until she died on the streets.

The only way to deal with any of this stuff is practicality. Food and safe shelter ought to be anyone's right, and it's something our society has trouble with, so family has to cope. But as soon as anything turns into a major force-of-wills, "my way or the highway," everyone starts to lose.

Sometimes a gentle, "Hey, you look miserable, let me take you to the clinic, E.R...." whatever, is all it takes to start making progress. Really the only exception is violent or suicidal behavior, danger-to-self-and-others, and then you call 911, hopefully explaining enough about the nature of the mental health issues so nobody gets shot.

[LiberalEsto]

40. I agree with you

However there are a couple of difficulties in this case

My husband is a chronic enabler and will not back me up. I've tried for years, since the kids were little. What I wouldn't give for him to grow a spine and set some limits.

Also, I'm not sure just how severe her psychiatric issues are, but I think they're pretty bad right now. If she gets any worse I'm going to try for at least a hospital evaluation.

Thanks!

[Kaleva]

49. I hope the best for you and your daughter.

Trying for at least a hospital evaluation is a very good idea. It would be very helpful if your husband would back you up but I know from experience that couple's often don't in situations like this. My ex had strong feelings of guilt as she thought her own severe emotional problems contributed greatly to how her son turned out. I believe they did but I never told her that as it wouldn't do her any good. Besides, I had the attitude that by the time a child grew into his later teen years, blaming a parent or both parents was no longer a valid excuse. They had to take responsibility for their own life by then and the best way to do begin doing that was to be out on their own. I ought to stress the son wasn't completely cut off from family support. I and his grandparents helped him out but we also made clear what we expected in return for the help.

Again, I hope the best for you and your daughter. There's always hope and she's still quite young where she has a the potential to have a long and happy life ahead of her.

[chknltl]

14. Perhaps some new shoes.

Waitressing is hard on the feet and a possible source of (or even exacerbating), her back problems. Maybe offer to get her a nice comfortable pair of work shoes. if you enlist her aid in finding "just the right pair" of shoes, (perhaps as a useful Christmas present), you and her will be sharing in the doing SOMETHING to ease her obvious discomfort. That could be a door to accepting further help from you later down the road.

[elleng]

16. Good idea.

[IrishAyes]

24. Very.

[nomorenomore08]

20. +2

I second that. Better shoes can make a big difference.

[libodem]

35. No kidding about the work shoes

Having good arch support can make your whole body alignment better. They have foot analyses machines now, for Dr scholls products. Inserts from the podiatrist can run upwards of $300.00.

If I'm in the wrong shoes I won't last 1/2 an hour on cement floors. My feet burn, ache and tingle all the way to the small of my back. And down again!


Plus vibes galore.

[LiberalEsto]

41. This is a good idea

But I think she has to wear a specific kind at the restaurant. I could try getting her to use some good shoe inserts. I use inserts from ProFoot and they are amazing.

[chknltl]

54. You know, shoes DO eventually wear out...

..but I see that you get the idea about finding a small way to help, one that the two of you can do together. The notion of inserts is a good one too, maybe find a way for the two of you to go get them. Even if she needs specific shoes for her job, that doesn't mean you can't go with her to get a second pair. Changing shoes (and even sometimes changing socks), in the middle of a long shift can have a nice affect on the feet. Waiters and waitresses really do spend a loooong time on their feet and foot comfort can be critical to how they get through their day.

Obviously this problem of hers is bigger than shoes, depression is something to take seriously-I know this from personal experience. There are quite a few thoughtful suggestions in this thread, that's one of the things I like best about DU. You have my vibes and hopes that the two of you get through this.

chris

[femmocrat]

15. Sending your daughter best vibes.

Hope things start to get better for her.

[Locut0s]

17. *Hugs* Vibs coming your way. Sounds like your daughter and I have some things in common...

I'm sure you know my story by now since I've been posting off and on about it on here for so long. If not feel free to PM me.

As for advice depression is hard to deal with. Ultimately she will be the one who has to want to get help. You could try what Kaleva said and lay down some rules for staying. But ultimately only you know if this would be beneficial or make things worse. My parents are the type who never laid down any rules at all. Sometimes I wish they would, other times I'm not as sure.

The problem with depression, and all emotional illnesses, is that it plays with the very foundation of your personality and how you see the world. With other types of life problems you can always draw on the strengths of your personality and reason with the problem logically. With depression it's much more difficult as your base coping skills and the way you perceive the world at a fundamental level are affected.

Does she have any interests, hobbies, passions she likes to engage in? I would try to do my best to encourage her to throw herself into these as much as possible at a time like this. It's difficult as depression removes ones interests and enjoyment of things that used to give them pleasure. But at the same time she needs distractions so she isn't thinking the worst thoughts all the time. It's essential to shut off that mental tape recorded that she almost certainly has telling her negative thoughts all the time.

Does she have any friends? I would encourage her to go out and be with them as much as possible. She will NOT feel like doing so but forcing yourself to will again be something of a distraction. If she doesn't have friends she should look into joining some social clubs and get together to make some. Point her to www.meetup.com they will have local social groups in just about any subject she should be interested in.

I can understand the belimia, even though I don't have it myself. It stems from self hatred and gives her a feeling of control when she feels like she has lost control of everything else.

In the end though she is the one who will have to make the decision to get help. All you can do lend her your strength, make her feel like she can confide in you about ANYTHING and nudge her in the right direction. She has to be the one to actually take those steps though.

As nomorenomore08 says it seems giving up on life is something of of an issue with our generation, I know I have for long periods and I know at least a few others who have for periods too. Please don't lose hope though, there is always help and hope and we are always here to confide in !!

Oh and please take care to monitor yourself too. Don't let this drag you into your own depression. Letting that happen will only make it worse for the both of you. If you see it happening make sure to seek out help of your own.

[cyberswede]

18. }}}}vibes{{{{

I hope she finds her way. Best of luck to you both.

[magical thyme]

19. depression makes pain worse. pain makes depression worse. poverty and dependence makes both worse.

The 20s can be a rough time, especially when the economy is bad and you can't get footing.

My 20s were a near total loss, and yet not. I was saved by a pair of psychiatric social workers who counseled on a sliding scale. I don't know that you can find anybody as smart and helpful as they were for me. I learned a lot of skills to cope with depression, which have lasted a lifetime.

and good vibes to your daughter and you.

First she needs to heal her back. As long as she has physical pain and stress, she won't be able to deal with the rest. Why do you think it is a slipped disc? Would she be open to consid some alternative therapy? Maybe a Christmas gift of a full body massage or a sacro-cranial therapy session or Alexander technique sessions would help relieve the pain.

I always found more help from the alternative route, both for physical and mental health issues. The 2 are tied together and sometimes therapists work in multiple modalities.

[LiberalEsto]

30. Thank you, m.t.!

About her back:

I agree with you and others who posted (bless you ALL!)that dealing with the immediate physical pain is important. You suggestion about massage sounds promising.

The doctor at the walk-in medical care place thinks she has a slipped disc in her mid-to upper- back. He wants her to get an MRI. He called yesterday evening to check on her and she refused to talk with him. He's also concerned that she has a heart murmur. His specialty is cardiology.

[magical thyme]

34. fwiw, my dog's prior vet believed he had multiple herniated discs in the lumbar region

based on his severe back pain, diarrhea,, and x-rays. Her prognosis was poor; she was talking about eventual paralysis. She treated him improperly and the diarrhea turned to chyme, plus he was starving in front of me while eating bowlful after bowlful of food until he couldn't fit any more in.

After a lot of research, I called all the larger dog hospitals within driving distance (including a large vet school hospital) to look for alternative treatments (specifically removing the inner discs via enzymes which has been very successful). A nearby oncology specialist sent me to a chiropractic vet, who diagnosed him with 4 subluxations, L4-L7. It took about 15 minutes for her to realign his vertebrae. The pain was gone immediately and the diarrhea stopped as well. (I suspect there was pressure on the nerve bundle that feeds the perstaltic contractions, which was forcing the chyme through the small intestine before he could absorb any nutrients.) We returned every few weeks for tuneups for just a few months, and then an annual tuneup to make sure he was still ok. After a couple years of no issues, we stopped with the extra vet visits. There has never been a recurrance.

[IrishAyes]

21. Always good vibes to spare for Duers.

What goes around... I've found this website a godsend, especially after I learned who/where to avoid.

Sorry, I don't know what to do either except to wait it out and be ready to help her when she's ready to be helped. Depression is a nasty opponent. Don't fall for any 'tough love' crap in this case - it isn't appropriate here and could be deadly. Just love her. And know that the world is full of caring people we don't even know about.

[Demo_Chris]

25. Wishing you and your daughter the best...

Since you seem to be asking what to do, here's the best answer I have:

She's your daughter. Be there for her the way you would be there for an injured puppy. Be there for her without expectation or judgment or hope or even observable gratitude. If she is living at home so what? Life is too short and painful to keep score, and you can be thankful you have her there and still a part of your life. In any case, she is just another of millions of young people in exactly that position. That's the wreckage we are leaving them, and if they have no hope it's no wonder -- they have nothing to hope FOR.

The American dream is no longer prosperity, it's avoiding homelessness.

Beyond that I don't know what to say.

[LiberalEsto]

43. You are right about what her generation is facing.

If only there were good jobs that paid decent wages, and if only these kids weren't up to their ears in college debt, without the prospect of ever owning a home or supporting a family.

I hate republicans and the 1% for how they've pillaged and destroyed the America I grew up in.

[Demo_Chris]

48. If only, if only...

I agree.

But I am also tired of the blame game. Yeah, Republicans suck, but when we have had the chance to fix it our party has done no better. It's not as if they tried and failed, they never tried. They do exactly the same things the GOP wants to do, and when called on it they say they cam do nothing without mega-super-never gonna happen majorities.

[hunter]

27. Vibes. Depression sucks. Chronic pain sucks.

My depression comes with a side order of paranoia, so when I'm deep in my dark place coaxing me to see doctors and counselors is not easy.

[fizzgig]

28. my best to your daughter

and to you

[chknltl]

29. A kick so more will see...

and send more good vibes.

[mnhtnbb]

31. Oh, boy, LE, you are not alone.

First--healing vibes and hugs for you both.

Second--I have several friends with grown (in various stages of 20's) kids living
at home. Many challenges. Some with barely making it jobs, some with no
job and not going to school, and some re-applying to grad school for
Ph.D.'s and doing odd jobs to help with bills, and one with probable
schizophrenia--and at a minimum bi-polar with OCD--who also refuses to
seek help. It seems to be a common situation. One friend's son
recently admitted he has an addiction and got himself admitted for
in-patient treatment. It was a long time getting him to the point where
he'd seek help. All of these grown kids living at home.

Third--she has to WANT to be helped. Does she have any friends her own age?
Any that you know and can enlist getting her to schedule an appointment
with a counselor, psychologist, psychiatrist? (Although most psychiatrists
these days will just offer pills and not talk therapy.)

Hugs, just hugs, for you both.

[LiberalEsto]

44. Thank you

She does have friends her age, and a boyfriend of sorts. She even sees a psychiatrist 4 times a year for antidepressants, but the meds don't help her anxiety and panic problems. One problem is that the meds that work for anxiety are highly addictive.

[malthaussen]

32. Vibes for your daughter.

All you can do is love her, I'm afraid.

-- Mal

[hedgehog]

33. Prayers going your way - plus one for you -

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen.

--Reinhold Niebuhr

[joeybee12]

36. Here come vibes!

[Arcanetrance]

38. To piggy back off what another poster said new shoes would be a good thing to invest in

I recommend mozos they're designed for restaurant work and I wear them and they've really cut out the occurrences of planter fasciitis that used to flare up alot

[RedCloud]

39. Start you daughter with water.

Maybe the kidneys are screaming for 100% water. That is my "El Cheapo" first resort tactic to back pain.

[LiberalEsto]

45. That's a good idea for lower back pain

She has mid to upper back pain from lifting heavy trays and the doctor thinks she has a slipped disc and wants her to get an MRI, which she refuses to do.

Fortunately she does drink a lot of water.

[HappyMe]

42. Send you and your daughter all the vibes I can.

[LiberalEsto]

46. Thank you, and THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!

who has sent their good thoughts, vibes, prayers. She seems to be a bit calmer, though she always has a lot of anxiety during the holidays.

I did some reading and learned that the smell of cinnamon can ease anxiety - at least to some degree, Stopped by a local consignment shop, where they sold me three big bags of cinnamon scented pine cones for $7. I am putting them all around the house and keeping my fingers crossed that they help.

[HappyMe]

47. I will keep you in my thoughts.

Lavender relaxes and helps with getting to sleep.

[JI7]

50. can you try to get some legal custody over her ?

[ashling]

51. You are both in my thoughts

I don't know if there's such a thing as a right thing to say, and if there was
I wouldn't know what it was ....

but if I did I would say it.

[ZRT2209]

52. Her confidence is broken down

the best way to improve it is for her to attempt something worthwhile and succeed

this could be taking a class and getting a good grade

putting a nice resume together

talking to a jobs counselor


Other things that help: getting out with real people (not on the job). Friends. A women's group. A church group. A volunteer group. Volunteering at a school or a food bank. County Democrats! Anyone. Get out and deal with people. Bask in the fellowship and support. It makes you start feeling like a worthwhile human being again.


Sitting at home all the time watching TV or sleeping just makes you more and more alienated from the world and causes your anxiety about getting back out there to increase. Just do it. Start being a part of the world again.

[ZRT2209]

53. also I would recommend reading motivational books

(or audiobooks) - starting with Who Moved My Cheese and then Napoleon Hill, Think and Grow Rich