Calling all antiquarians!

[IrishAyes]

No, no, not aquarians.

For some inexplicable reason I'm fascinated with life in the 18th and 19th Centuries. So I know a considerable amount about period folkways; usually when some odd fact appears in a book, I can figure out the reason from the context. But this time I failed.

Just finished reading an excellent family history. Late 1800's, all the kids are in down with whooping cough. While Mom tends them, Dad goes to find a keg of nails. No explanation given though clearly it has to do with the illness in the family. But absolutely NO HINT about what he's going to do with that keg of nails or why they think it will do any good.

Anybody out there know what use people of that era would make of a keg of nails in regard to a childhood illness?

[TexasTowelie]

1. It's a whiskey reference.

Found in the Urban Dictionary

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=open%20a%20keg%20of%20nails

ETA: It means let's get the party started (and could also be a medical treatment).

[IrishAyes]

3. Wow. Thanks. I guess I'm too young for the earlier era (the author's) and

too old for yours, maybe; since I didn't understand the reference. Awkward.

But I'm sure you have hit the nail on the head! Of course strict church folks in the 1800's weren't about to admit using spirits even as medicinals - although they commonly did. They'd need a suitable euphemism. Since whiskey plays such a large part in folk medicine, I'm sure that's what they did. Although of course for the kids it would be cut with a lot of sugar.

One time in the middle of nowhere without transportation late on Friday, I developed a terribly abscessed tooth. So I took a new bottle of whiskey and used it as a mouthwash which of course I swallowed. When I gradually figured out what it would take to stop the pain but leave me sober enough to take care of myself, that's the level I maintained. By the time Monday rolled around that bottle was gone gone gone, but I never really got drunk enough to matter and never had a hangover either. Monday in the dentist's chair was hell day for me!

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

12. "Of course strict church folks in the 1800's weren't about to admit using spirits even as medicinals

I'm reminded of an old, but still true, joke:

Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah.
Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the head of the Church.
Baptists do not recognize each other in the liquor store.

[IrishAyes]

13. You owe me a new keyboard for that one!

Thanks just the same. I almost fell off the chair laughing.

I never tire of reminding fundies that Jesus didn't turn that water at the wedding into soda pop. And the Pharisees called Jesus a winebibber. The usual fundie excuse, IF indeed it can be called that, is to claim that liquor was needed in those days to purify bad water. Well, besides the other problems with that idea, their deep wells were probably less polluted than our water today because they didn't have tons of industrial waste or artificial fertilizers from factory farms.

Now I do understand that Rome's municipal water delivery system probably put more lead than advisable into the water, but so far as I know most of the Mideastern systems were based on underground tunnels cut through rock or at least lined with stones, weren't they? I'm sure YOU know.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

16. Two things

While the Roman aqueducts were made of stone -- and extremely well made too (a Roman official, Sextus Julius Frontinus, wrote a two-volume work, De aquaeductu -- "On Aqueducts" -- shortly after AD 95, upon completing a term as Water Commissioner -- curator aquarum. The slope of the aqueducts could be as gentle as 1 meter in 85.); the pipes that served individual houses were made of lead. There is an echo of this in English: "plumber" comes from the Latin plumbum -- "lead".

The late Episcopalian priest, Robert Farrar Capon, in his book The Supper of the Lamb, speaks about the wine/grape juice controversy:

Consider first the teetotalers. They began, no doubt, by observing that some men use wine to excess -- to the point at which, though the wine remains true to itself, the drinker does not. That much, I give them: Drunks are a nuisance. But they went too far. Only the ungrateful or the purblind can see that sugar in the grape and yeast on the skins is a divine idea, not a human one. Man's part in the process consists of honest and prudent management of the work that God has begun. Something underhanded has to be done to grape juice to keep it from running its appointed course.

Witness the teetotaling communion service. Most Protestants, I suppose, imagine that it is part of the true Reformed religion. But have they considered that, for nineteen centuries after the institution of the Eucharist, wine was the only element available for the sacrament? Do they serious envision St. Paul or Calvin or Luther opening bottles of Welch's Grape Juice in the sacristy before the service? Luther, at least, would turn over in his grave. The WCTU version of the Lord's Supper is a bare 100 years old. Grape juice was not commercially available until the discovery of pasteurization; and, unless I am mistaken, it was Mr. Welch himself (an ardent total abstainer) who persuaded American Protestantism to abandon what the Lord obviously thought rather kindly of.

That much damage done, however, the itch for consistency took over with a vengeance. Even the Lord's own delight was explained away. One of the most fanciful pieces of exegesis I ever read began by maintaining that the Greek word for wine, as used in the Gospels, meant many other things than wine. The commentator cited, as I recall, grape juice for one meaning, and raisin paste for another. He inclined, ultimately, toward the latter.

I suppose that such people are blessed with reverent minds which prevent them from drawing irreverent conclusions. I myself, however, could never resist the temptation to read raisin paste for wine in the story of the Miracle of Cana. "When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made raisin paste...he said unto the bridegroom, `Every man at the beginning doth set forth good raisin paste, and when men have well drunk eaten?--the text is no doubt corrupt], then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good raisin paste until now.'" Does it not whet your appetite for the critical omnia opera of such an author, where he will freely have at the entire length and breadth of Scripture? Can you not see his promised land flowing with peanut butter and jelly; his apocalypse, in which the great whore Babylon is given the cup of the ginger ale of the fierceness of the wrath of God?

[IrishAyes]

20. Well, at least I was forewarned for this one and set down my coffee cup before indulging.

That's a real keeper. I trust you won't mind if I share it around, with due credit of course. Most people could use a good hysterical fit, depending on the type they choose.

You and Rug both can lift my spirits as few others do.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

21. By all means, I'm happy you enjoyed it

Make sure you give the credit to Father Capon.

Your public library should have a copy of The Supper of the Lamb (or they can get it), which is not so much a cookbook as a collection of essays on cooking. As one critic put it, "To call The Supper of the Lamb a cookbook would be like calling Moby Dick a whaling manual."

Father Capon is highly opinionated -- and I don't always agree with him -- but his opinions are worth considering. He describes himself as "an Anglican, or moderately High Church, cook".

I must say that the book is rather dated, since it came out in 1968. I do have a soft spot for my copy, since it was the first cookbook I ever purchased (and the second one I owned, the first was a gift from my parents).

Father Capon also wrote some books on theology that I rather like. His trilogy on Jesus' parables: The Parables of Grace, The Parables of the Kingdom, and The Parables of Judgment is, at times, brilliant.

[IrishAyes]

22. So little time, so many books!

As it should be. I'd rather run out of time than books, w/o which the time would hang too heavy.

Thanks, they're on my want list.

One of those I bought at the last library sale (5 hardbacks per dollar even I can afford) is a collection of CS Lewis' letters. Seems he was quite intent on getting books at the library too when he could, in order to save $ for more books he wanted that they didn't have. It's really quite a lovely collection of letters.

[trof]

9. My mom and grandpa used to say that.

Talking about a party or celebration of some kind.
"Come on over, we'll open a keg of nails."

[IrishAyes]

15. Well, that settles it then.

I probably would've liked your grandparents.

[Duer 157099]

2. Coffins?

Macabre, I know, but ?

[IrishAyes]

4. Thank you; but if you read upthread, I think you might agree with the other answer.

Let me know if you don't. But it makes excellent sense.

[Duer 157099]

5. Either one makes sense to me

Can you quote the exact phrasing? Maybe that will help.

[IrishAyes]

6. See Texas Towlie's post #1 and my response #3.

Euphemisms of the day cleared up the mystery for me.

[Duer 157099]

7. Yep, I agree that makes sense

However... here is a use of the phrase in a 1898 novel:

"Holy jacks, if you don't stop that I'll give you a coffin before your time, you keg of nails!"

although the original was:

"Support d'en haut, if you don't stop that I'll give you a coffin before your time, keg of nails--you."

So... apparently it was used as some sort of insult too. Maybe like calling someone a drunk?

In fact, nails were sold in kegs, so at some point the phrase was actually literal. That's why I was asking for the actual quote that you read, wondering if there are more clues?

But thanks, fun to solve these kinds of mysteries!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_of_the_Strong

http://books.google.com/books?id=KSBAAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA280&lpg=PA280&dq=keg+of+nails+coffin&source=bl&ots=kf9tDBFQNM&sig=eAcPEEUBoSIPOKjqva6Ln0L3OWc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Y83rU72LCYf1oAT_qoDwAw&ved=0CDMQ6AEwCQ

[IrishAyes]

8. Oh, I see... a quote from the BOOK, not the posts.

Sometimes I can be so dense it scares me.

No, all the book said was that Mama took care of the kids while Papa went for a keg of nails. Nothing else at all to tip off a reader who didn't catch the reference.

Thanks also for the other info. I agree, it probably was a socially acceptable way of calling someone a drunk.

While I've got your ear for the moment, let me add that many lasting superstitions in this country came from the Irish. Not that we were more superstitious than others, but a lot of our notions were/are derived from the ancient pagan celts. Opening a window in the room where someone dies so their soul can escape is one, though it is sadly dying out itself. I do it to honor the departed, not because I fear trapping their ghost.

Those white toes that were included on all socks for many years have been laid at our door too. A variety of explanations attach, but my favorite is that we believed it protected the wearer - white being the color of purity and the toes preceding the rest of the body in motion. I have a large reference book on ancient superstitions around here somewhere. You know people used to think that thunder would poison dairy products? As rare a treat as ice cream could be, if a thunderstorm came up at a picnic, they dumped the ice cream when it might be the only batch they'd have all year.

Of course milk and fish made poison too. I must be a witch or something because I've eaten them together all my life with no ill effect.

[trof]

10. Check out "And So's Your Antimaccassar".

http://www.amazon.com/And-Sos-Your-Antimacassar-Dustcatchers/dp/B00BBN21LG%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q%26tag%3Dduckduckgo-d-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB00BBN21LG

[IrishAyes]

11. Thanks. Bookmarked for ASAP.

I might have trouble affording a lot of other things, but I can usually squeeze out enough for another book. First I'll have to see if the library can get it for me, though. SOP. They're hoping in another 6 months or so to be able to get Piketty's 'Capital in the 21st Century' for me. Wish us luck.

The other book really sounds up my alley, too. Maybe I should be embarrassed to admit such nerdy reading tastes, but I also have one book on 16th Century clothing styles and another on various nun's habits through the years. Yes, I'll really sit there and read about different designs and materials used for buttons after they arrived on the scene. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

14. An "antimacassar" was placed on the top front of chairs

To ward off a popular hairdressing, Macassar Oil. It is mentioned by Byron, who called it "thine incomparable oil, Macassar" in the first canto of Don Juan; and Lewis Carroll also mentions it in the "White Knight's Song" from Through the Looking Glass.

[3catwoman3]

17. I actually know what an...

...antimacassar is. Does that mean I'm a nerd? (A 63 yr old nerd, if so.) It is other books, as well, altho I can't recall which just now.

[IrishAyes]

18. I use those myself. Not the oil. Just because

a stuffed chair or sofa doesn't look quite right to me w/o one.

Of course my grandparents had them and kept their furniture, which was old when they bought it. A great deal of it has been hauled hither and yon during my travels, too. Not everything I own is curbside vintage!

But absolutely the most beautiful house (to me) I was ever in belonged to the great grandmother of a childhood friend. This grand old lady never even succumbed to electricity of any kind although she did have gas lights on the walls to supplement her oil lamps. Some of her stuff predated the Civil War.

The one person who drove me to fleeting homicidal fantasy was a guy I met immediately after moving to an extremely rural area in California right after leaving L.A. He had just moved too and was having an estate sale after inheriting the place from his own great grandmother. I said I'd be there first call and asked if by any chance he had floor lamps for sale. He puffed out his chest and bragged that he'd already thrown out a lot of that 'old junk' in the trash, and there'd been several floor lamps but damnit none of them were even electric! All too quickly I realized trash day had already come and gone, and I wanted to leap for his philistine throat.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

19. I became rather annoyed with my mother

Who tossed out my father's old Underwood typewriter -- it looked much like this:



Admittedly, all I wanted was the keys, because I want a computer keyboard like this one

http://www.datamancer.com/cart/the-aviator-keyboard-p-191.html?zenid=nM1ArrpnFHEc61hzMz9uQ0