Fess up DUers, who here has hit a deer with their vehicle?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

You swerved, but still hit the deer. Now you may face a raise in your car insurance rates for something you feel you could not avoid. Even if you have never had this experience several insurance companies are raising rates in states with high or rapidly increasing rates of deer strikes.

Currently West Virginia has the highest rate of deer strikes, where your odds of hitting a deer are one in 39, followed by Michigan, where insurance rate increases are directly correlated with an increase in deer strikes. So, unless you plan to move to Hawaii, where your chances of hitting a deer are only one in 10,000, you may want to take some precautions.

Accidents with deer occur most frequently between October and December which is mating season. Collisions with deer are increasing due to deforestation and building in rural areas forcing deer out of their natural habitats and into more highly populated areas.

The collision rates have increased the most in New Jersey and Nebraska where statistics show a 54% increase in the number of car versus deer accidents in the past two years.

more at link: http://www.carinsurancecomparison.com/will-my-car-insurance-be-raised-if-i-hit-a-deer

[url=http://www.carinsurancecomparison.com/will-my-car-insurance-be-raised-if-i-hit-a-deer][img][/img][/url]

[TreasonousBastard]

1. I This was a huge problem when I lived in NJ and...

we constantly had "town meetings" that ended up in brawls between the kill-ems and no kill-em and the fights within those groups.

Finally, the state secretly brought in sharpshooter teams at dawn and killed off the herds. Or at least brought them down to manageable levels.

A little screaming, but the deed was done and everyone let out a sigh of relief. The state has been doing this every year since, to great accolades now.

So, we had town meetings here that ended up the same way-- much speechmaking and many pleas, but the deer were still around.

Finally, two out of five towns agreed to a limited test of the plan-- teams of three state certified sharpshooters, with one as a spotter, one as the shooter, and one as safety guy. But with far fewer teams covering a smaller area.

The limited test had, as expected, limited results and the fight goes on. Meanwhile, flowerbeds and gardens are eaten, woodlands are destroyed, and farmers have to spend big money or suffer huge crop losses.

And the body shops are making big money.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

2. One jumped out in front of me tonight on my way home but, I live in a rural area on a dead-end

dirt road and, I am always on the look-out for them.

Seven more crossed over in three different places on my half mile dirt road.

[TreasonousBastard]

3. Yeah, it's bad all over, but...

the American way is to argue over a problem for years before getting around to solving it.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

4. I have never hit one but, a a friend of mine hit one tonight and tore off his bumper.

That started the conversation and someone mentioned that liability rates were going up because of it. So, when I got home, I googled and found this piece.

And that got me to wondering who is hitting all these deer ....

So, I thought I would throw it out to the Lounge and the infinite wisdom found within.

Have you hit one?

[TreasonousBastard]

5. No, but just dumb luck...

Came really close a couple of times.

On edit-- I just remembered I did hit one a few years ago. Didn't hurt it badly, though, and just a small fender dent.

But, yeah, I did get one.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

6. I have had birds fly into my windsheild once and my grill once. Nothing I could do to avoid it.

Freaky, like they were committing suicide or something.

I mean, really, I am sure they got sucked in by wind velocity or something explained by physics but, damn

Never yet (knock on wood) hit a deer though.

Did you turn it into your insurance?

[TreasonousBastard]

7. No, I didn't have collision on that old beater, but...

speaking of birds-- I don't remember hitting any, but I was driving down a local coast road years ago and an albatross must have gotten lost and dropped a load that covered almost my entire windshield.

That was scary.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

8. oh yuck.

did the wiper spray thingie even clean it? gross.

[TreasonousBastard]

9. Not a chance-- had to get off the road and scrape...

yuck, indeed.

[Recursion]

10. In the student body van on an outdoor club trip. Oy.

That was not fun.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

48. oh yeah, I bet. There went the trip, right. Or did it hallen on the way back?

[Recursion]

52. On the return, crossing Skyline Drive.

Again, oy.

[hobbit709]

11. A friend of mine had a deer hit him while he was stopped.

the deer put a plate sized dent on his hood. The airbags going off did $2000 damage.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

46. yep, it is the deployment of the airbags that adds to the cost of repair.

[Enthusiast]

86. I have heard of that several times.

[JonLP24]

12. I was actually seriously trying to recall if I ever remember seeing a deer

I think maybe near Poudre River in the Rockies in Colorado. I have ridden & driven past the woods countless times - I did Army training at "Fort Lost in the Woods" and pretty much the northern I-5 section of Washington is in the woods but seriously wondered if I saw one.

I do have a memory of a "surprise" feeling seeing a forest animal but I do know I never seen a Bear, Mountain Lion, or Wolf (where the hell are they at?) so it must have been deer that I saw.

On Grand Theft Auto 5, however, I run them over all the time. Never intentionally, can't help it driving at high speeds on those country roads. Oddly, there is actually where a mission where you're in pursuit of the "O'Neal Brothers" and they swerve off a side of a mountain (more like a hill) to avoid hitting the deer.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

45. wow. I think my nephews play GTA ... I am going to ask them about the deer.

I have seen bear on the side of the road in the mountains. I have seen fox but, never wolf or mountain lion. That would be cool

[jakeXT]

13. I have, it was just a light touch with the front bumper, the deer was small and it ran away

But the injury to the head killed it.

The problem is that a lot of new cars have pedestrian protection or pedestrian airbags.
So that adds 1000 bucks for new hood explosives, as it did in my case.

The pedestrian airbag is fitted as standard in all V40s, although it will cost around £500 to have the airbag replaced and another £700 to replace the bonnet, as this will get damaged by the airbag inflating (these costs may be covered by your insurance). This may be an annoyance if the system is set off by an impact with a large animal, such as a deer, but it seems a small price to pay if it also saves someone's life.

http://www.mumsnet.com/cars/info/news/volvo-pedestrian-airbag

System configuration
When the car hits a pedestrian, a sensor in the bumper signals the pop-up control unit, which judges its necessity, will trigger an explosive actuator that pops the hood up.
http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECHNOLOGY/OVERVIEW/puehfpp.html

[Tuesday Afternoon]

44. Yeah, 3K is the average cost of repair to the vehicles and the airbags are part of the reason.

I did not realize it was enough of an issue to cause insurance companies to raise rates carte blanche, though

[jakeXT]

66. The impact was at low speed so the airbags inside the car didn't deploy

Only the hood actuators exploded to protect pedestrians from head injuries. The deer was so small it barely got to the head lights and it didn't touch hood.

In the last two weeks, I had two deer pop up in front of me.
I saw some of them from far away because of my high beam lights, I stopped where they crossed the street and stood there for 30 seconds and another one came out of nowhere and crossed the street.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

68. check post #57 in this thread for some help with this problem. good luck!

[jakeXT]

69. I don't know if it works, I hope we'll get night vison in every new car in the near future

[CanSocDem]

14. I have.

The first time was in the early sixties in a 58 Ford stuffed with 6 friends and a mother on our way to northern B.C. for high paying jobs. It was my turn to drive in the middle of the night and....well...the deer just jumped out in front of me, I swerved and the deer crushed in the passenger side of the car, totaling it. Nobody was hurt 'ceptin the deer, who was dead.

After that, when I became a truck driver and drove through open air wild animal parks like Yellowstone and Northern Ontario I vowed to avoid hitting ANY animals not only because of the damage they could do but more importantly, I really hated taking an innocent life. I had already given up my guns so I couldn't, in clear conscience, turn my truck into a killing machine.

So I spent about 20 years braking for gophers, swerving around porcupines and generally avoiding the dull and slow-witted members of the animal kingdom(including those of our own species) who found themselves, inexplicably, on a highway.

Some, as another poster mentioned, will die despite your best efforts. But with a generally positive attitude and a respect for all god's creatures, conflict can be minimized.

Knowing that animals can sense our intent telepathically, whenever I had to drive through their backyard, I would always project out, telepathically, this promise:

I will not drive in the ditch, if you do not stand on the road.

Animals just seem to respect my non-violence.





.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

32. I like that. I am going to send that out to the universe when I drive.

[lastlib]

15. I didn't hit the deer.....

...the deer hit ME! It ran into the front fender from the SIDE--big mashup between the wheel well and the headlight, plus dents on my hood where it kinda rolled up on it and dinged it with his antlers. (Un-)fortunately, its death wish was unfulfilled; it was able to get up and run away.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

43. He probably died later, in the woods. Sorry about your vehicle.

[Scuba]

16. I've hit two over the years. Plenty of damage to my vehicle, both deer killed instantly.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

42. sadly, I think that is the case most of the time, Scuba.

that article said that the average damage done to the vehicle is about 3K.

I am glad the creatures didn't suffer though. Instantly, is the best outcome, I think, when this happens.

[Avalux]

17. I live in an area of San Antonio that was rural 20 years ago.

Since then, development has changed the landscape dramatically, but the deer are still here. They have been forced into smaller and smaller wooded areas and of course, they don't respect boundaries and are everywhere.

It was right about dusk a few years ago when I hit a fawn, injuring it. I couldn't leave it in the middle of the road, and I could see mama deer watching me from the treeline. So....I got a blanket out of my car, wrapped the little guy up and took it to the wildlife refuge, hoping they could help. Unfortunately they couldn't save him. It was heartbreaking.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

40. so sad, Avalux. Thanks for trying. Poor momma deer.

[Rhythm]

18. I've done so twice -- both times while living inside my town

Didn't kill either one (was only going about 30mph each time), and no more than insignificant damage to the vehicle i was driving (but then, it was a lifted '94 Explorer).

We have a serious problem with deer populations inside the city limits of Morgantown WV... so much so that there is an annual 'urban hunt' each fall (bows only, on privately-owned property, and by the owner's written permission) to try to thin-out the herds around town.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

37. Yes, they are in our town areas, too. It helps to go slow and be in a higher profile vehicle.

[bigwillq]

19. Me, and it died.

And so did my car.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

35. small car, big deer? the one my friend hit last night was a big buck with a huge rack.

Sorry about your car and the deer.

[bigwillq]

74. Biggish deer

Nissan Sentra. It was still operable, but had a few thousand dollars worth of damage so I ended up just getting a new car.

Thanks.

[shenmue]

20. Me

He ran into the road. I couldn't slow down in time. He kept running, so hopefully it wasn't a fatal hit.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

34. so sad ... I am afraid to say ... but, they probably did not make it, shenmue.

I think most of them do not survive that kind of hit. They are probably running on adrenalin and then die later in the woods. Poor things.



PS = Thanks for the rec

[shenmue]

50. I has a Sad

I'm sorry, Deer. Poor critter.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

51. oh, honey. I know. but, what could you have done? they come out of no where.

[shenmue]

65. Thank you

Mr. Deer is in Deer Heaven, munching tasty grass and slurping up flowing water in the pretty streams.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

67. beautiful

really

[Phentex]

21. The deer hit US! I was a passenger and am still traumatized...

It was terrifying. The deer ran along the side of the road and then directly into the path of the car. Windshield shattered (I was in the back seat center), car was totaled, deer was dead, it was late at night...




To this day, I try not to go anywhere in the more rural areas in case of deer. I still see them along I-75 when I have to go south but I won't be out at dawn or dusk if I can help it.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

31. oh. I know what you mean. It is a traumatic experience hitting any creature with the car.

Squirrels really scare me ... they are _so_ damn Squirrely !! I never know if they are going to zig or zag

[csziggy]

22. Not me, but my husband

About a month ago. Just got the hood replaced on the car. Didn't go through the insurance since using a backyard body shop and aftermarket parts kept the replacement cost lower than our deductible.

At the same place in the road a friend of ours had to slam to a stop to miss hitting a herd of deer. It seems to be a favorite crossing point for them - at the edge of a small rural community and what used to be plantation land that is very wooded, right next to the church of the little settlement. The good thing with that location is that people are generally going slower since the speed limit in the community is 30 while the speed limit on most of the rest of the road is 45 and people go 50-60.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

29. I wonder if those deer crossing signs help ...

One night, coming home, I stopped and let a herd of deer go by.
I heard them before I saw them. Sounded like a herd of Elephants!
They were LOUD must have been over fifty of them.

[Kaleva]

47. The deer ignore them.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

49. *groan*

[Kaleva]

54. Lol!

[seaglass]

23. Yikes, I was hit by a kamikaze deer on an overpass coming home from work one night. Scared the

crap out of me as s/he hit me on the driver's side door and then took off into the woods so fast I never saw it. When I pulled over I had no idea what had happened until a woman pulled behind me and asked if I was alright, she had seen the deer hit me.

Broke the driver's side door, I drove home with one hand on the handle trying to hold it closed.

It was the week before Thanksgiving. I felt sorry for the poor deer, it must have been hurt though there was no blood, just some saliva on my windshield.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

28. it is an odd feeling, isn't it. that combination of scary/sad.

[tk2kewl]

24. hit a mule deer in Utah once - it ran away and I spent a few days straitening dents...

replacing headlights, radiator, grill

and one time a white tail ran right into the side of my 1978 R100 motorcycle - that one died.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

27. oh wow ... on a motorcycle. that sounds really scary.

is that a smaller bike ... an R100 ... ?

[tk2kewl]

30. 1000cc BMW

the one with the "boxer" motor... cylinders sticking out the sides...



the deer was skidding on the pavement trying to stop and smacked its head into the left-hand cylinder

I was lucky enough not to go down, but i know others who have been taken down by deer on their bikes

[Tuesday Afternoon]

33. Bikes scare the bejesus out of me. I always stay as far away as possible when I see one on the road.

Thank goodness you weren't hurt.

[tk2kewl]

36. Lucky the deer hit the engine and not the front wheel - would have been a different story

bikes are fun and economical but definitely can be dangerous. i don't ride any longer

My aunt had a deer jump clear over her VW Karmann Ghia back in the 70's while driving in the snow - freaked her out.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

38. oh wow !! That is freaky !! kind of a beautiful sight though, to think about. They can be

such graceful magnificent creatures

[Enthusiast]

87. An "airhead".

[A HERETIC I AM]

97. Check this;

http://m.

Several other similar ones on YouTube.

Close...VERY close

[tk2kewl]

98. Yikes!

[NV Whino]

25. Does it count if the deer hits you?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

26. ... lol ... does the deer pay your insurance?

[NV Whino]

70. Ha!

No,but it was kind of a junker and I never got it fixed. Bent the hood a bit, and the car forever after whistled at certain speeds,

[alarimer]

39. I hit a pig once.

In Texas.

Yes, an actual pig.

And no, I was not driving through a barnyard. It was a feral hog. They're everywhere down there.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

41. ... lol ... I shouldn't laugh but, that vision is funny to me.

Pigs are just comical to me for some reason. Those feral hogs get huge, though

[Kaleva]

53. I've gotten two bucks with my work van

I have an issue with this passage from the article:

" Collisions with deer are increasing due to deforestation and building in rural areas forcing deer out of their natural habitats and into more highly populated areas. "

While forests do provide shelter for deer, there is very little food for them there as they are grazers. Populated areas can be havens for deer with ample food, adequate shelter, protection from natural predators and most municipalities prohibit hunting within their limits.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

55. I think that is why I see so many deer where I live. I have meadows and a creek.

Food AND water and a good place to bed down. I have seen deer on my property all hours, day and night.

They love my roses ... they will eat the blooms X(

[pipi_k]

56. No, but...

I did hit a squirrel one time and felt like shit for a long time afterward, so I'm glad I never (so far) hit anything larger.

Which is a minor miracle living where I do because there are deer everywhere.


On a similar vein (talking about hoofed animals) my brother in law one time (back in the 50s maybe) was driving down a country road in his car when he hit a cow.

Nobody got hurt even though the cow flipped up in the air and landed in the back seat of the convertible, the top being down and all.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

58. omg!

that NEEDS to be a scene in a movie. hilarious!!

glad no one was hurt.

and yeah, squirrels

[hedgehog]

57. We swear by these:

[Tuesday Afternoon]

59. how does that work exactly? is it some high frequency sound device being emitted?

pretty cool gadget, eh.

[hedgehog]

60. They are whistles mounted on the bumpers - we can't hear them,

but animals can. I've seen cats and racoons running to the edge of the road at night stop abruptly. My husband says he's seen deer do the same thing. It's no guarantee, but it seems to help.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

61. good to know. Honestly, someone should do a PSA type commercial about the product.

I did not realize the problem was so prevalent.

[Jenoch]

75. It's your imagination.

Those deer whistles don't do anything to help you avaid hitting a deer.

http://www.thevog.net/threads/deer-whistles-do-they-really-work-an-in-depth-report-by-fred-rau.3439/


In researching that, I found a lot of expert opinions that a Deer’s hearing range is “basically the same as a human being.” In a nutshell, it was found conclusively that common Whitetail Deer hear sounds from 500 to 12,000 Hertz, and, at elevated volumes, sometimes as high as 16,000 Hertz, but never beyond that. Since the absolute top end of a Deer’s hearing range is the same as the advertised absolute low end of the frequencies generated by a Save-A-Life Deer Whistle, the chances of a Deer actually hearing and reacting to one of these devices is virtually non-existent.

[Raine1967]

62. I have hit a deer, and honest to dog:

I had two incidents of deer running into the side of my car. All three incidents were in November in the Hudson Valley of NY. 2 were during the day.

Deer are a real hazard in my opinion. It's not really their fault either.

[hedgehog]

63. If you ever do hit a deer, be glad it wasn't a moose.

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/11/deerfield_accident_kills_moose.html

There are some really nasty pictures on line. The problem is that moose are both heavy and tall - they tend to crush the roof of the car.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

64. It really isn't their fault. Poor, confused creatures.

[Enthusiast]

88. November is the RUT.

Breeding time.

[Xyzse]

71. I hit a wabbit, and I'm still unhappy about it, 12 years after the fact.

[RebelOne]

72. I killed a bird that flew in front of my car, and I still feel bad about it.

If I hit and killed a deer, I would feel guilt for the rest of my life.

[Xyzse]

73. Exactly!

I saw that happen once on a car driving on the other side of the road of me.
Was driving along, and then all of a sudden, a bird flies in its path in a poof.

[Enthusiast]

89. And it wasn't even wabbit season.

[Jenoch]

76. I hit one deer, two hours after I bought

my car from the auto dealer. My car was not driveable and I was two hours from home. A couple behind me stopped and picked me up and we went to a supper club (rural Wisconsin) so I could call the sheriff. I wanted a police report for the insurance company. My car was towed to a body shop, and th couple drove me 45 minutes to an airport that had a car rental agency. This happened a long time ago. I did not have rental coverage on my auto insurance (I highly recommend it) so I drove a 1968 Buick Electra for two weeks that I got from Rent-A-Wreck.

By the way, NEVER swerve to avoid hitting a deer. My 96 year old aunt died in a roll over when her 74 year old daughter swerved to attempt to miss the deer.

If you are going to hit a moose, do anything you can to avoid it. A Minnesota couple survived hitting a moose because they were driving a small convertible. They drove underneath it.

My dad's friend once hit a horse with his mini-van. The horse rqn onto the road and ran right into the side of the van. The horse died and the funny thing was, nobody claimed ownership of the horse.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

93. that sucks about your brand new car.

poor horse. owner was probably afraid he would get sued

[Kali]

77. All I have ever hit at speed was a bowling ball.

I know the neighbor hit a deer one night a couple years ago and I see them on the roads pretty often. Somebody is hitting them.

Last month in New Mexico they were all over the place in Ruidoso - came out of the woodwork around dusk. Next day we drove around the Mescalero Reservation and I couldn't believe the amount of elk shit all over the roads. That must be dangerous at night. Or maybe not - from the manure I would say the pavement was so crowded you couldn't get up speed. I am not kidding - it looked like a 1000 horse parade had passed down the road.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

83. Those pix are great, Kali - and

it looked like a 1000 horse parade had passed down the road. gold nuggets, eh

[ohnoyoudidnt]

78. Not yet, I came pretty damn close to crashing into a bear once, though. nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

94. wow. where did that almost happen?

I have seen bears on the side of the roads in the mountains so, I know it could happen.

[ohnoyoudidnt]

95. Central Florida it was a black bear in a somewhat rural area near a state park. nt

[FrodosPet]

79. Elusive creatures, aren't they?

[kentauros]

80. Never.

Unfortunately, I've hit several birds (including a Mockingbird, dammit!) and one squirrel. The damned squirrel even made eye-contact with me (it was running across a busy four-lane thoroughfare and stopped right on the median) and then darted back in front of me. I couldn't stop or avoid it due to all of the traffic around me. The birds all did that ground-skimming flying they seem to love doing over roads. I guess they've learned that stunned or freshly-dead bugs are often there, too...

I guess the roads I take through Texas to visit family are populated by deer that don't cross those same roads much.

[Sedona]

81. 1993 on Mingus Mountain outside Prescott AZ

[Initech]

82. Yo!!!!

Happened last year. And for the record I live in Southern California. Cost $3600 worth of damage to my car, and my car was not even a year old at the time. Thankfully the insurance covered everything but the deductible.

[davidpdx]

84. I didn't...

but I did pee on the toilet seat.

[Enthusiast]

90. You will never get to heaven.

[Enthusiast]

85. I have only hit one.

I couldn't possibly avoid it. It jumped directly in front of my truck. It landed in the road and kerblam!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

92. They jump out of Nowhere!

I hope you were okay ... did it do much damage to your vehicle? What about the deer?

[hunter]

91. Not safe in Hawaii. Instead of deer they have feral goats.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

96. Had one leap out of the tall grass in front of my bicycle once. I was moving pretty fast, too.

[rurallib]

99. i had a deer run into into the back end of my car

does that count

[AngryOldDem]

100. Deer ran out in front of me on a dark country road...

...scared the shit out of me and put a nice dent in my hood. But the thing ran off, apparently unhurt.

[PufPuf23]

101. Deer and a black bear (actually bear hit me)

The deer was a tiny fawn in 1995. Fortunately was driving slow as in a deep fog but in step mountain terrain on the Klamath River highway 96. Was in a Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo and all I knew at first was that the airbag went off and the cab was filled with white power and my face and arm were burned. Had no clue that had even hit a deer and thought a malfunction at first.

In 1998 rolled 3X and totaled the same Jeep Laredo on the Trinity River highway 299. Needed help to get out of the vehicle and only injury was from broken glass climbing out rear window. No airbag.

The black bear was in mid 70s driving a US Forest Service pickup on a brushy trace of a road when a bear came barreling down a cut bank and went splat on driver's door, was dazed momentarily, and then ran off. Surprise.

[NewJeffCT]

102. I hit a deer once in September of 2003

I had dropped my wife off at the airport for a business trip to China. So, on the way back, I stopped by a friend's home I had not seen in a few years - his health had recently taken a turn for the worse and he was bedridden. A few other friends of his also stopped by that night to try to cheer him up. Even though he was bedridden, he still had his sense of humor and had all of us laughing hysterically for hours and hours... I finally left his home around 4am. I remember laughing so hard, I had tears coming out of my eyes. So, he was actually making us laugh despite his being bedridden. (11 years later, though, he is still bedridden due a severe arthritic condition.)

I had not had anything to drink other than water, and on the way home, I had to get out of the way of some maniac that was all over I-91 North, driving 100+ mph and probably drunk off his or her ass. So, that set me off and I looked at every set of headlights on the highway to see if they were rapidly gaining on me and/or swerving all over. It was then, of course, that a deer bounded across the highway and collided with my 10 month old Toyota Corolla. My car kept going for a few hundred yards before sputtering to a stop and dying. While I was perfectly fine, it was $7,000 of damage and a month to fix (I think the insurance company forgot about it, as I hadn't heard anything in like two weeks before finally calling...I didn't mind, I was driving a free loaner.)

The car ended up lasting another 6-7 years and another 140,000 miles or so as well. So, I guess they fixed it up pretty well.

[blueknight]

103. I think

i have hit 5 now/ but i live in ky, so thats not unusual