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Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 01:49 PM Mar 2015

Would appreciate your feedback RE: one of the worst breaches of ethics I've seen in my profession.

Some of you know me, some of you don't. I used to be "Amerigo Vespucci" on DU until my computer died in October 2013 and I lost my User ID / PW (and didn't remember the email I used to sign up), so I became Miles Archer. I'm a Web Designer.

A couple of days ago I was using Google to come up with a prospect list for sales calls. The concept was simple...the vast majority of Web Surfers do NOT click past page one of Google's search results, so I started making my list on page 6. These are sites that dropped the ball on SEO (Search Engine Optimization) or haven't updated their content in a long time.

Also, Google is going to start penalizing sites that are not mobile friendly. They have an online tool that you can use that delivers a "report card."

So here's the point.

I found three dental offices in my town with the exact same Website.

The three Websites are virtually identical other than the names of personnel, phone numbers, and addresses.

Now, if the three practices were owned by the same individual, it would would not be a matter of ethics. One of my dental clients is in the practice with his wife, and he requested two identical sites...one with her domain, one with his.

But this is a "Web Designer" who used one GoDaddy template three times for three different clients and sold each of them identical content, and each site's home page has the same stock photo woman with the hideous neon death grin as its centerpiece.

I've done this long enough (since 2001) to know that one, two, or all three of the practices may say "SO WHAT?" when I contact them.

They've been ripped off, though, and this kills their online credibility.

Obviously I am calling to pitch my doing sites for them, but I'm also willing to alert them to the fact that an unscrupulous individual took their money and ran.

I plan to keep the calls simple and brief and do not intent to inject drama or finger-pointing...just stating the facts, "Two other practices in town have sites identical to yours," and then I will see if a broader conversation can take place.

Your thoughts?

If you were one of the dental offices in question, would you appreciate the call, or consider it one more annoyance from a salesman?

32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Would appreciate your feedback RE: one of the worst breaches of ethics I've seen in my profession. (Original Post) Miles Archer Mar 2015 OP
I would appreciate knowing this TuxedoKat Mar 2015 #1
Yes, as a matter of fact... Miles Archer Mar 2015 #2
Wow TuxedoKat Mar 2015 #17
Thank you... Miles Archer Mar 2015 #26
I would appreciate it. progressoid Mar 2015 #3
OK, first, that's one of my all-time favorite albums... Miles Archer Mar 2015 #5
Maybe they all created the websites themselves from a free web template. PassingFair Mar 2015 #4
No, I get that part of it, but... Miles Archer Mar 2015 #6
I would appreciate your call. antiquie Mar 2015 #7
I really want to believe that none of them know. Miles Archer Mar 2015 #8
Have you watched "Better Call Saul"? DebJ Mar 2015 #18
I've only seen the first episode... Miles Archer Mar 2015 #27
You should at least make them aware of the situation. Throd Mar 2015 #9
I'm going to send you a PM with the links. Head, prepare to explode. Miles Archer Mar 2015 #10
Roll those calls, make some money. nt TeamPooka Mar 2015 #11
What's the worst that could happen if you call them? Taitertots Mar 2015 #12
Yep. From one of my favorite sales books, "Smart Calling"... Miles Archer Mar 2015 #14
advertising two cents worth NJCher Mar 2015 #13
Agreed...see my posts above. Miles Archer Mar 2015 #15
Well...they all knew it. Miles Archer Mar 2015 #16
Good for you for trying though. lovemydog Mar 2015 #21
My good friend and mentor told me... Miles Archer Mar 2015 #25
bottom line NJCher Mar 2015 #24
I just read some reviews of PDS. Sounds like you're lucky to have avoided working with them. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #30
Further proof that "everything happens (or doesn't) for a reason." Miles Archer Mar 2015 #31
:^) ND-Dem Mar 2015 #32
I get sooooo many sales calls that I'm not sure how I would take it. Some days I just ask everyone mackerel Mar 2015 #19
disappointing they knew Skittles Mar 2015 #20
Wow, I didn't know you were Amerigo. bigwillq Mar 2015 #22
Yeah, I learned the lesson of not backing up my computer the hard way. Miles Archer Mar 2015 #28
I would be cautious and approach in this manner polihood Mar 2015 #23
Great advice, and that is the direction I took... Miles Archer Mar 2015 #29

TuxedoKat

(3,818 posts)
1. I would appreciate knowing this
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 02:22 PM
Mar 2015

Good luck with your prospecting. I guess I would try and think of some novel ways to overcome objections when some of the prospective clients say so what? I'm sure you've thought of such things though -- such as non-generic looking websites get more hits?

Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
2. Yes, as a matter of fact...
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 02:28 PM
Mar 2015

...one of my dentists is very active in providing care in Third World countries. He brings his equipment and a generator and goes deep into the heart of places that have never seen a dentist. He is also very active in the community...I was the guest speaker one week at Kiwanis Club, and he came up after the meeting and asked me to take a look at his current Website.

His wife is the office manager, and she has nothing bud disdain for the "smiling happy tooth" template sites. That's what they had before they met me. The first thing I did was ditch the extremely generic and posed headshot photo of the Doc they had on their site, and vowed to use NO STOCK PHOTOS. We got a really nice shot of the Doc sitting at his desk, looking very kind...exactly what you want to see when shopping around for a person who is going to be putting surgical steel instruments into your mouth.

I also made the decision to play up all of the info I listed above, because let's face it...a lot of people who are not nice people have the ability to go to dental school.

The day...the FIRST DAY...that MY new site launched, they got a call. A patient committed to getting a veneers procedure. The result? It paid 100% of what I charged them for the Website AND gave them an additional $500 profit.

TuxedoKat

(3,818 posts)
17. Wow
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 10:48 PM
Mar 2015

I'll bet they were pretty happy with the website you created after that! Totally customized and unique to their practice. It would be nice to see some of the websites you created. You must get a lot of work by word of mouth and people seeing your work.

Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
26. Thank you...
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 12:19 PM
Mar 2015

...I just sent you a PM with a link to my Website so you can see some of the work I've done.

progressoid

(49,969 posts)
3. I would appreciate it.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 02:50 PM
Mar 2015

Much better than those damn robo calls I get about my Google maps update.

But...here's a question I have. Will this mean you would be working for the competition of your other Dental clients? How do you deal with that?


Also,

Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
5. OK, first, that's one of my all-time favorite albums...
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 03:17 PM
Mar 2015

...seriously.



Regarding the competition and my other dental clients, the reason why I don't allow myself to be commoditized is that I spend a significant amount of time with my clients before I write a single line of code. I have four dental clients...including my own former dentist from California. If you looked at the four Websites you MIGHT know they were done by the same guy, but I doubt it.

I work very hard to make each site unique and stand-alone. It all comes down to someone who is shopping for a dentist selecting the one that makes them feel most at ease, and that's a really intangible thing. The client I mentioned further up in this thread threw repeated hints at me to switch to his practice and I told him I couldn't because my dentist took care of me, and I repay that with loyalty.

So the answer is that SOMEONE has to build those sites and it might as well be me depositing the checks. My moral compass signs off on sites that have quality code and a good solid marketing message that conveys the uniqueness of the practice.

PassingFair

(22,434 posts)
4. Maybe they all created the websites themselves from a free web template.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 03:03 PM
Mar 2015

Lots of people use free Weebly sites and don't really care about
information or pictures beyond an address and phone number.

Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
6. No, I get that part of it, but...
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 03:21 PM
Mar 2015

...this is a template, and maybe that is innocent enough, BUT each of the three Websites has "Looking for a family dentist in Colorado Springs, CO? You're in the right spot!" in the header. Templates don't come pre-loaded with specific verbal content.

The home page text is also identical on all three sites.

So one of two things happened. Dentist #1 built the site from a Go Daddy template and Dentists #2 and #3 ripped them off, or ONE "web designer" built one site from a GoDaddy template and sold his work to two other dentists in what probably amounted to a couple of hours work. The only difference between the three sites is the specific staff, phone number, and directions. Everything else is a word-for-word match.

 

antiquie

(4,299 posts)
7. I would appreciate your call.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 03:59 PM
Mar 2015

They could easily be web-naive and not realize what their site should do for them. Even if they knew they were buying a template, they probably expected more customization than name and address. If they got exactly what they asked for, it isn't working out for them.

Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
8. I really want to believe that none of them know.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 04:04 PM
Mar 2015

I'd be mortified if TWO competitive businesses had Websites identical to mine.

This is why I waited a day before calling, to make sure I thought it over completely and didn't damage anyone's ego by turning a light on it.

DebJ

(7,699 posts)
18. Have you watched "Better Call Saul"?
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 12:10 AM
Mar 2015

There have only been a few episodes. In #2 or #3, he intentionally designs an enormous billboard just like another law firm's but with his face, name and number. He gets an identical suit made, same pose, same lettering. And he places it just before the exit to their business, directing clients to HIS office instead.

Reminds me of this. It's a funny show.

Throd

(7,208 posts)
9. You should at least make them aware of the situation.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 04:10 PM
Mar 2015

If I thought I was paying for custom design and some clown was banging out template work and charging me full freight, I'd be pissed.

I have 20+ years experience as a graphic designer and have seen some pretty sleazy stuff in my time.

Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
10. I'm going to send you a PM with the links. Head, prepare to explode.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 04:18 PM
Mar 2015

You will be stunned, just like I was.

Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
14. Yep. From one of my favorite sales books, "Smart Calling"...
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 04:42 PM
Mar 2015
Say “So What?” to Your Fears Call avoidance is often caused by fear of hearing no. A newsletter subscriber of mine e-mailed a very simple, yet effective way to deal with that. She said, “Whenever I fear something , I go into ‘so what? mode.’ I just put ‘so what?’ in front of anything I fear. For example, ‘So what if I get a no. Big deal.’ It’s a way of saying, what’s the worst thing that can happen to me if I do it? It helps me realize that our fears are usually ridiculous and never realized anyway, yet they cause us to miss so much.”

Sobczak, Art (2013-03-25). Smart Calling: Eliminate the Fear, Failure, and Rejection from Cold Calling (p. 207). Wiley. Kindle Edition.

NJCher

(35,648 posts)
13. advertising two cents worth
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 04:40 PM
Mar 2015

Feedback: Based on what you said, you should familiarize yourself with the concept of the "unique selling proposition." Each one of those dentists has something unique about their practice, and that is what you can help them determine and subsequently, what their site should focus on.



Cher

Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
15. Agreed...see my posts above.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 04:46 PM
Mar 2015

The other problem with template Websites for Dentists is that the designers throw everything in but the kitchen sink because they fluff that up as "value." Problem is that the average person shopping for a Dentist online is not a Dental student studying for finals. They want to see the people in the practice and have some level of comfort with walking into that office.

I don't do "templates," I'm a marketing professional and I try my best to do exactly as you suggested. Unfortunately, in the era of Webbly and Wix and GoDaddy, it requires a greater intensity of sales effort to convince people they are going to get something better than if I sat down for an hour and tweaked something already built. But sales is as much a part of my job as building the actual sites, so I roll with it.

Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
16. Well...they all knew it.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 06:03 PM
Mar 2015

Turns out the three practices ARE owned by one medical group, and there are two more as well. I checked Manta, I turned over every rock I could and did not find it.

I STILL think the concept of doing identical sites is piss-poor, but that's what they have chosen to do. The company that cranks out the templates is called Pacific Dental Services and somehow their salespeople convinced these practices that it was a good idea.

Oh well...onward and upward. Thanks to everyone here for the feedback and encouragement.

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
21. Good for you for trying though.
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 03:53 AM
Mar 2015

When I read this yesterday I kind of figured that might be the case. Good luck getting some other good clients!

Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
25. My good friend and mentor told me...
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 12:18 PM
Mar 2015

..."At least you're still showing up." That's shorthand for the old sales axiom that "Showing up is half the battle." He's been a very successful salesperson for decades, and when you get a vote of confidence from someone at the top, it gives you a much needed second wind.

Thank you for your encouragement.

NJCher

(35,648 posts)
24. bottom line
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 11:06 AM
Mar 2015

Is that repeating three sites does little for their USP. I think you could show them that three unique selling propositions could get them more clients. You'd have to know quite a bit about dentistry, though, to come up with it--or if they understood the concept, they could provide you with enough information for you to come up with the three USPs.

In other words, each office would have something unique to offer. One might specialize in techniques that help overcome fear of going to the dentist, etc., I'm sure you get the idea.



Cher

Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
31. Further proof that "everything happens (or doesn't) for a reason."
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 02:14 PM
Mar 2015

Got a laugh out of one reviewer referring to them as "Perfect Devil Society."

mackerel

(4,412 posts)
19. I get sooooo many sales calls that I'm not sure how I would take it. Some days I just ask everyone
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 01:55 AM
Mar 2015

to send the sales calls to my voicemail.

Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
28. Yeah, I learned the lesson of not backing up my computer the hard way.
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 12:24 PM
Mar 2015

I could have asked Skinner to help me out but I didn't remember which email I used to sign up.

 

polihood

(92 posts)
23. I would be cautious and approach in this manner
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 09:30 AM
Mar 2015

I've seen this sort of thing on a variety of occasions, but not to this extent, and by that I mean businesses in competing markets.

Instead of taking the "You've been ripped off approach," I would suggest approaching the business owners with concerns about consumer confusion in relation to their product and how being associated with a business that doesn't necessarily share the same high standards can impact their reputation.

Offer a short explanation on why they should consider branding and how you can assist them in accomplishing this goal.

I think a positive message leaves the best impression.

Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
29. Great advice, and that is the direction I took...
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 12:30 PM
Mar 2015

...BUT they all had a pretty immediate reaction of staying the course.

The branding is the value proposition...I had some very bad experiences with dentists in my mid-teens. It was my own damned fault, I didn't brush regularly and no one even talked about floss when I was a kid. So in a one-year period, I had a ton of dental work done. When I moved to California and had to choose a dentist...as I have said elsewhere in this thread...I was basically looking for someone who wasn't straight out of "Marathon Man" (and one of the first dentists I went to WAS, a terrible, mean old bastard).

You want to brand the dentist as qualified (that's a no-brainer), but also as a multi-dimensional, well-rounded human being. I don;t think most people care about someone having a degree as much as what that person did with their life AFTER they got it.

So yes, I did take an approach similar to the one you suggest, and got met with the blast furnace of "WE DON'T CARE." That's kind of hard to tackle in a cold call, but that doesn't mean I can't take a different approach somewhere down the line. Right now I am in a "generating income" mode, so the prospects who show resistance on the first pass go on my "I will call them some other time" list.

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