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Sat Apr 11, 2015, 05:51 PM

I'm watching 'Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief' . . .

on HBO. I was aware of the basic premise of Scientology, some of the history, and the controversy surrounding it, before watching this flick, but WTF?!?

The lengths to which these nutjobs will go to stop any negative publicity is astounding!

Thank DOG I am an atheist!!!

24 replies, 2248 views

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Reply I'm watching 'Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief' . . . (Original post)
fleur-de-lisa Apr 2015 OP
fleur-de-lisa Apr 2015 #1
okaawhatever Apr 2015 #21
hollysmom Apr 2015 #2
fleur-de-lisa Apr 2015 #7
hollysmom Apr 2015 #14
auntAgonist Apr 2015 #3
fleur-de-lisa Apr 2015 #11
shenmue Apr 2015 #4
fleur-de-lisa Apr 2015 #8
shenmue Apr 2015 #12
benld74 Apr 2015 #5
fleur-de-lisa Apr 2015 #9
Major Nikon Apr 2015 #20
PasadenaTrudy Apr 2015 #6
fleur-de-lisa Apr 2015 #10
hrmjustin Apr 2015 #13
NV Whino Apr 2015 #15
fleur-de-lisa Apr 2015 #16
NJCher Apr 2015 #17
a la izquierda Apr 2015 #18
hibbing Apr 2015 #19
sakabatou Apr 2015 #22
Arugula Latte Apr 2015 #23
Dont call me Shirley Apr 2015 #24

Response to fleur-de-lisa (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 06:06 PM

1. The Scientology definition of 'blackmail' is somewhat at odds with mine.

John Travolta and Tom Cruise are completely held hostage by these creeps. Who knows how many others have been victimized!

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Response to fleur-de-lisa (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 12:48 AM

21. I've read that Nicole Kidman's "audit" (apparently a confession of all the bad things you have done)

is how Tom Cruise got custody of their kids. From what I read, they taped her audit and were going to make it pubic if she didn't leave the kids.
I don't normally repeat unconfirmed things i've read, but it does make sense and I've known Scientologists. It sounds exactly like something they would do. BTW they record all "audits" and when pressed on 60 Minutes (or one of those news shows) said it was to help the auditor work with them in the future. They then asked the Scientologists if they get rid of the recordings after the auditors are finished working with them and they said no. They keep those recordings forever. There is absolutely no good reason for doing that.
I've also read that blackmail was used to get their IRS tax exemption. The NYT did a story (but they don't make the blackmail claim direclty):

*Scientology's lawyers hired private investigators to dig into the private lives of I.R.S. officials and to conduct surveillance operations to uncover potential vulnerabilities, according to interviews and documents. One investigator said he had interviewed tenants in buildings owned by three I.R.S. officials, looking for housing code violations. He also said he had taken documents from an I.R.S. conference and sent them to church officials and created a phony news bureau in Washington to gather information on church critics. The church also financed an organization of I.R.S. whistle-blowers that attacked the agency publicly.

*The decision to negotiate with the church came after Fred T. Goldberg Jr., the Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service at the time, had an unusual meeting with Mr. Miscavige in 1991. Scientology's own version of what occurred offers a remarkable account of how the church leader walked into I.R.S. headquarters without an appointment and got in to see Mr. Goldberg, the nation's top tax official. Mr. Miscavige offered to call a halt to Scientology's suits against the I.R.S. in exchange for tax exemptions.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/03/09/us/scientology-s-puzzling-journey-from-tax-rebel-to-tax-exempt.html

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Response to fleur-de-lisa (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 06:36 PM

2. but if you ever read the premise - you have to wonder about the people who fell for this crap

I knew a girl who lived down stairs from me about 35 years ago, she was all into scientology, could not pay her rent and we got to talking about how much money she spent of her classes and how being with scientology would help her singing career (nothing could save her singing career, so bad)
well push came to shove when she was explaining how she was learning to be powerful from scientology and in a short while she could break my leg by thinking about it - I asked her why she wanted to break my leg? She could not answer, I asked her if her powers could do good for the world, that seemed to confuse her - it seems her group stressed revenge rather than contribution. eventually she was thrown out for not paying her rent. and no one had their legs broken!

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Response to hollysmom (Reply #2)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 07:18 PM

7. Your story makes me wonder . . .

if your friend decided she couldn't pursue Scientology because you made her question it, or if they tossed her because she had no money. I really hope your influence did the trick, but I suspect otherwise. And I'm glad no legs were broken!

My daughter went to grad school at UCLA. She is a very bright girl and academically interested in religions of all flavors (we are both atheists). As you probably know, there are tons of Scientology centers all over LA. She walked into one (well, to be frank, she was accosted on the street and harassed into going inside) along with her friend. She and said friend submitted to the basic test (PC, or whatever the hell they call it).

I suppose they didn't get enough dirt on my daughter out of the preliminary interview to blackmail her, because she got away unscathed. Or they quickly realized she was just a kid in college. She is very open-minded, but even at the young age of 21, she knew it was bullshit.

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Response to fleur-de-lisa (Reply #7)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 07:47 PM

14. I don;'t know if she quit scientology, I just never saw her again

because she got evicted. I was not going to take her in, she asked but I said no.

now my friend from Boston was talked into going to an audit by a co-worker in the late 60's. the audit left her disgusted, she felt they were personally insulting her and tearing her down and she saw no need to submit to anymore of that abusive behavior, she tried to leave n the middle, but was actually restrained. So she told them thanks but no thanks. and left for home. after that she was followed in the street, they called her at home all hours and they pestered her at work until she felt so threatened, she got a job in NYC and we met, she left no forwarding address, she left a job she loved, she left a boyfriend, she just had to get away.
It worked just fine. they never found her again.

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Response to fleur-de-lisa (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 06:37 PM

3. A most enlightening film/documentary.

I really enjoyed it. Very informative.

aA

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Response to auntAgonist (Reply #3)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 07:25 PM

11. It creeped me out! n/t

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Response to fleur-de-lisa (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 07:08 PM

4. I live not far from their U.S. center in Clearwater

I can't wait for the day they shut down.

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Response to shenmue (Reply #4)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 07:20 PM

8. You have my deepest sympathy! Do you run into any nut jobs?

:group hug:

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Response to fleur-de-lisa (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 07:36 PM

12. Not so far.

I try not to go near their building unless I have to.

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Response to fleur-de-lisa (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 07:15 PM

5. I watched it and couldn't stop shaking my head in disbelief

yet there remain 50K+ members owning millions in real estate around the world. IF the IRS had only NOT given the religion label it may NOT have happened.

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Response to benld74 (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 07:22 PM

9. Yeah, that whole tax exempt status

left me in disbelief too. And that's one of the less creepy things about Scientology!

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Response to fleur-de-lisa (Reply #9)

Sun Apr 12, 2015, 05:14 PM

20. Not any different than any other religion in that regard

The problem is that religious organizations are not granted tax exempt status based on the benefit to society. They are granted tax exempt status simply based on the fact that they are a religion.

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Response to fleur-de-lisa (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 07:18 PM

6. I just started watching it too n/t

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Response to PasadenaTrudy (Reply #6)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 07:24 PM

10. Be afraid . . . be very afraid!

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Response to fleur-de-lisa (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 07:39 PM

13. It was a rather shocking documentary.

 

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Response to fleur-de-lisa (Original post)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:03 PM

15. Just finished watching this

I hope they lose their tax free status and the IRS claims all their assets.

My recommendation for dispersal of said assets is to first get help for all the people left hanging by Scientology's demise. Then use the money for education to teach critical thinking so this shit never happens again.

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Response to NV Whino (Reply #15)

Sat Apr 11, 2015, 09:04 PM

16. Great idea! - n/t

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Response to fleur-de-lisa (Original post)

Sun Apr 12, 2015, 09:47 AM

17. L. Ron Hubbard was Mentally Ill

Fleur-de-lisa, so glad you posted about this. I had seen a post a couple weeks ago about it, and was disappointed that I had missed the program. I've always been interested in cult-like organizations.

Hoping it would re-run, I was checking the program listings. I took 2 hours out from putting in my garden to watch.

Re another poster's comment about critical thinking skills, I was amazed at the comment one person, who had been in it for 30 years made: He said that in all that time, he'd never read about Scientology to see if there was anything critical written about it.

Anything that would demand that much of my time and money would get a critical look very early in the game.

Another thing that struck me was how they got their way by simply being nasty people to deal with. Very effective technique. I was horrified when they showed the part where the IRS director made the deal to make all those lawsuits go away. That is the deal that made them a nonprofit. Sickening.

In NJ, at one of our schools, we have a teacher's union president who operates like this. Anyone who criticizes her feels the repercussions. She tracks them online and gathers a dossier about them. She has been able to get some teachers fired. Imagine that: you're taking dues from teachers to operate in their best interest, yet behind the scenes, pulling strings to make them lose their jobs. I could go on, but you get the point, which is that no one wants to put up with this type of harassment. That is the strategy that made Scientology such a rich organization.

One other item: L. Ron Hubbard was such a head case. In fact, one of the people who knew him well even commented how Scientology was essentially his inner quest for some type of resolution to his mental anguish.

The part that chilled me was when they said Scientology turned its followers into L. Ron Hubbards.




Cher

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Response to fleur-de-lisa (Original post)

Sun Apr 12, 2015, 10:58 AM

18. I worked for a company that was run by Scientologists...

by not "owned" by the church. Here's the thing: I think they thrive off of the weak-minded. I took one of their IQ tests to get the job. I guess they have to hire a certain number of non-Scientologists to keep things legal. I assume they hire some weaker minded people and get them to come over to their cause, but I have no clue why they hired me, except that I'm a pretty open-minded person and I generally don't care about people's religions. I also knew nothing about Scientology. I had to do some of their "courses" during the period of my employment. It was the biggest bunch of bullshit I'd ever read.
They were very supportive of my pursuing my M.A. while I worked for them, and tried only briefly to convert me before realizing it was never, ever happening with me.

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Response to fleur-de-lisa (Original post)

Sun Apr 12, 2015, 12:15 PM

19. Those stupid looking military like uniforms

Those things were so stupid looking, did they take fashion tips from Michael Jackson or something?

Peace

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Response to fleur-de-lisa (Original post)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 01:12 AM

22. I read the book

Yeah, there's a whole lot of shit going on

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Response to fleur-de-lisa (Original post)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 05:17 PM

23. I want to see that.

 

Definitely a nutty, cult-y, scary organization.

However, a lot of people who will shake their head at Scientology beliefs will continue to believe that a magical dead carpenter from ancient Judea is gonna come back to Earth any day now. Go figure.

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Response to fleur-de-lisa (Original post)

Mon Apr 13, 2015, 07:18 PM

24. I kept thinking of Orwells 1984 as I was watching it. LRH must have been so admiring and

jealous of Orwell. It's as if LRH took Big Brothers system, twisted it in his own way and used it as the system for his cult.

I went to one meeting once and came out disgusted, thinking that no religion costs this much.

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