Ginger the horse's dressage test at her first big recognized competition last weekend

[riderinthestorm]

This will probably be like watching paint dry for most of you but this is Ginger, the horse you helped name, at her first big recognized competition doing her dressage test. The dressage phase is a precision test of the horse's obedience and harmony with the rider. For her, it was the first phase of a three day event which also encompassed stadium jumping and a cross country gallop/jump over 20 natural obstacles.

Magical Thyme expressed interest in seeing Ginger's progression dressage-wise after 6 months of training (she came off the track the last week of November and I bought her the first week of December). Who knows? Maybe some of you are also interested!

Ginger finished in 6th place out of 29 in her division. She loves jumping and has mastered jumping fearlessly into water, over ditches, up and down banks, over small log cabins and tables etc. For dressage she's not super steady yet and aficionados will notice she's constantly bouncing between being overflexed and more or less correct (free walk on a loose rein?! Ha! Its actually lucky she didn't bolt or scoot during that part). She's growing stronger every day as she gains the musculature necessary to carry herself and her rider (my husband). For now, she's still very green but the basics of straightness, rhythm, obedience and submission are self-evident imo. Next time I'll post video of her jumping which should be a tad bit more interesting for most...

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. She looks like she's been doing this all her life, and very well too!

It isn't real exciting......but it's not supposed to be!

I look forward to seeing her do more.

Good luck with her!

[riderinthestorm]

6. Yes, exciting is baaad for this phase... We want boring, steady and calm

we've had our fair share of exciting before. One time the horse stopped and then reared straight up like you see in the movies, then galloped off like a freak. Another time, my husband asked for the canter and the horse took off galloping - jumped the four foot fence surrounding the arena and then jumped a spectator's wagon full of coolers as my husband vainly tried to get her to stop.

So yeah, we like calm!

She's had to learn a lot in six months but she's on schedule of where we like our off-track thoroughbreds to be about now.

It's fun to watch them learn and grow.

[kentauros]

2. Not boring to me :)

I was paying attention mostly to the change in gaits (though I can't remember the names of all of them at the moment.) Plus, your husband was quite good. As someone was saying in the video, you can hardly see his hands move at all. As for the other subtle movements and such you stated, I don't know what to look for there, and just enjoy dressage in general.

[riderinthestorm]

7. Yes, my husband is very good at what he does.

he's been a pro for more than 30 years now. He's ridden at the FEI (international) level.

Ginger is definitely at the lowest level...

But he has a blast with the babies. I typically go fetch 1-2 young horses off the track every year to be re-trained. He never sees them until they get to the farm and unload but he trusts me to come home with something he can work with.

It's a gamble though. I'm not allowed to ride them backside - only licensed jockeys are allowed to ride so I just go by my instinct watching them move and be handled, and their pedigree.

[kentauros]

19. You do quite well in picking them

Is this part of a business you have? I honestly don't know much about that kind of thing, just that I like to watch the results

[riderinthestorm]

22. It's a small part. We also board. My husband teaches, trains and competes others' horses

he also gives clinics across the U.S. He's the rider/trainer. I "manage" him and do EVERYTHING else lol.

We try to minimize owning a lot of horses ourselves since it's expensive and we really don't need to but he really enjoys re-starting youngsters and its a good way to "give back" to the horses, so it's off to the track for me to hunt one or two down every year. If/when we sell these off-track thoroughbreds, we don't usually make any money but we don't lose any either. It would be akin to going to the bank and making weekly deposits in a .0025% interest rate. You won't lose your money but you won't make any either.

It takes us @ a year to get them to a point where they're "sale able". A horse like Ginger will sell for $8,000- $10,000 at the end of a year. But in that year we've fed her, shod her, dewormed her, trained her, competed her, housed her etc. She'll be a solid competitor and solid companion for anyone at any level - easy to handle, cooperative for the vet, farrier, trailering, bathing, stand all day wherever she's tied etc.

Since we know we can make these racetrack rejects into something more, we do. It's good for us and them.

Ginger isn't super special - she's actually about average in most ways but TBs have the most wonderful heart and drive, and they suit my husband's riding style so we continue.

And yes, I've been picking them for him for 25 years. Good thing he trusts me. There's been some bad choices over the years - I can't truly evaluate temperament in a 5 minute quickie look at the horse on the backside of the track so we've had a couple crazy prospects in the past but overall it's worked ok.

I just thought I'd share the "journey" with this one horse. I'd never done that before on DU and thought there may be some fellow DUers interested in the process. With the threads generated after American Pharoah's Triple Crown win, I thought I'd give "the rest of the story" for at least one racetrack TB.

[A HERETIC I AM]

3. Very nice.

Well done.

Gorgeous animal.

[riderinthestorm]

8. Thanks!! She is cute!

She's a little tense in dressage. It's not her forte I believe but this summer will tell.

[lovemydog]

4. Love it.

Wonderful.

[riderinthestorm]

9. Thanks! It's a small part of our operation but very fun.

We don't have time to "rescue" and re-train more than 1-2 horses from the track each year but I'd do more if we could.

[Rhiannon12866]

5. Wow! Beautiful horse! And beautifully done!

[riderinthestorm]

10. Thanks!! She's firmly "stamped" with Secretariat's good looks and his red color

she's a very bright copper redhead...

[Rhiannon12866]

38. I'm a huge fan of Secretariat, grew up in Saratoga Springs, New York

I rode growing up, so I can appreciate the precision of dressage. That sure looked like an impressive performance to me. I used to take part in a drill team and actually rode a red chestnut, really nice horse, though I tend to remember more about the spectacular mishaps, LOL. Your horse is just exquisite, looks to be a champion.

[Kali]

11. I don't know much at all about this fancy stuff

(hell I don't even know how to put on an English saddle LOL) but she seemed to be very well under control. even at the walk where she wanted to go more, she took his corrections pretty well. I know that was not supposed to really happen but having had an ex-racer around here once, I can sure appreciate the work that has obviously gone into her!

would love to see a side by side of a good reining cow horse and one of these.

[riderinthestorm]

13. Reining v dressage pairs are now ubiquitous at most of the bigger competitions

Here's an example:

Dressage vs. Reining - RAWF 2009:

The riders love to swap horses and it shows. You and I know that dressage and reining actually share a lot of the same theory so trade - offs are fun and with minimal discombobulation for the horse.

[magical thyme]

15. wooops! you beat me to it...

I got sidetracked while posting and and missed your reply!

[Kali]

17. HA!

that was pretty cool! I have never seen that. now put a snakey Mexican steer in the arena!

I had a horse that could slide pretty good once, but for real cattle work it really isn't used much. I am thinking of the kind of work like half a day in a crowded corral sorting cattle or dragging calves to a branding fire without stirring up the rest of the animals that are standing around - can take a rope under the tail or between the legs and barely flick an ear.

Those kind are rare, nobody has the time, even less the need to use a horse all day every day like in my Grandfather's time.

Have you ever seen this? This takes some time, probably sleeping with that animal too!



(sorry I can't seem to extract the video from facebook)

https://www.facebook.com/209968025761502/videos/2783535913626/

[riderinthestorm]

31. Oh love that video! And yeah, add in a snakey Mexican steer and all bets are off!

There are a ton of reining v dressage videos now on YouTube. I selected the first one I found but there are others where the reining rider FAR outperforms the dressage rider.

Submission, gait quality, rhythm, moving off the haunches with a proper respect for the rider aids, softness in the bridle, even the common movements for the tests - so many commonalities it didn't go unnoticed.

But to your larger point - the old style of riding certainly produced a superior product in many areas. There's a world class event rider, Denny Emerson, who shares your perspective exactly. He's from the original school when event horses had to strictly pass the three day military tests and he HATES the drift into "glamour". He considers it dangerous actually. And he's right.

Too many "fancy" sport horses western and English have strayed far from their roots.

[u4ic]

24. That announcer has been doing that FOREVER

I used to go to the Royal Winter Fair religiously in the 70's and 80's when I lived in Toronto (even worked there for a few years so I could get in free and watch all the classes, all the jumping I could hope for 10 days straight). Back then, the great ones were on the fall circuit - Big Ben, Milton, Jappeloup, etc - so many top horses and riders. Then they started sending their second stringers over from Europe and the US.

That fellow has been announcing since the 70's. I think he does the whole fall circuit, not just the Royal. And wonderful video!

[magical thyme]

14. you probably know more than you realize, lol

The foundation training for dressage is virtually identical to that for reining. The fork in the road comes after the basics, when they are directed toward their specialties. Even then, there are still parallels, just with a different focus. Eg, reining horses do "spins" dressage do "pirouettes." Same basic movement, but one is high speed and the other slow.

Back when I was in college the national champion reining trainer, Sidley Payne, re-trained her national champion reining quarterhorse, Scarteen, to grand prix dressage.

[Kali]

18. yeah especially for modern show horses

back in the day a cow horse was used everyday and even a plain grade horse could outperform the vast majority of high priced show animals that exist now. (sort of like rodeo cowboys - they may be great athletes, but that doesn't mean they know much about cows or horses anymore LOL)

[magical thyme]

12. Super girl!

Nice, steady tempo and even rhythm in each gait, very smooth and balanced transitions walk/trot/walk and trot/canter/trot. Nice and straight down the center lines. Free walk will take some time...did I see your dh secretly scritch her neck there? ( I used to do the same thing with Algiers)

She's still worried a bit about the bit -- once that's resolved, her head position will resolve.

Boooring! Just what the doctor ordered

[riderinthestorm]

16. She's actually in a western bit for this test. The thinnest we own and she's still fretting

Its a snaffle sweet iron.

Alas, this mare's proving to be tough to fit. He's resisting putting on a flash or figure eight noseband but further down the road it may happen.

But yeah, the hard fundamentals are moving into place - straight, good rhythm, smooth transitions.

She's never going to have great "schwung" through her back imo. She's wound a bit too tightly but there's a lot to like in how she's going.

And yes! Its the secret neck scritch! Its code for "relax!" (or even "please, please relax dammit!&quot

[magical thyme]

20. it's rare to get schwung in a tb or arab. they're all too tightly wound

Yeah, I re-ran the video and double-checked -- I *knew* I saw the sneaky "Please, please relax dammit!" neck scritch in there

I finished every ride with Algiers with free walk on a long rein. And we did a lot of trails -- eventually I got him to the point where he would mosey along with me holding just the buckle. In the couple of shows I got him to, he got 8s for his free walk. The one place where he did have great swing in his back.

Dahli walks like a cat -- she has swing, but just powers right through. Maizie too.

I'll be fitting Maizie's bridle tonight and introduce her to her new bit tonight or tomorrow. I had tried on Algiers' bit, but she wasn't real cooperative so I'm guessing the size. I hope it fits -- it cost a minor fortune -- Dahli's happy mouth bit was ~$20 7 years ago. Maizie's was almost $60.

[riderinthestorm]

26. Oh geez, we have HUNDREDS of bits. Tell me the size and type you want lol

Please let me ship a few of them to you!!

Please!

[magical thyme]

28. I got a 5" "happy mouth" bit for her. the same I use for Dahli.

They're similar to the french link, but like the german sprenger KK bits they turn the link on it's side. Actually make it more like a little bean, since the shape of the french link can hurt a low roof. They're smaller, thinner and lighter weight than the KK bits.

Very thin, coated in apple-flavored plastic. Dahli wears a 4 1/2" -- it was the tiniest bit I could find without going to the pony size.


happy mouth bit:

[riderinthestorm]

36. That's the bit Gingers wearing in the first pictures I posted about her

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018770413

she's a 5" so definitely not the smallest.

I'm now on a hunt for a thin french link...

[magical thyme]

39. ha! I didn't even notice...

Now that I think of it, Maizie's 5" is surprisingly thicker and heavier than Dahli's, which is more like a tiny pony bit.

Hmmm...do you have one of these lying around? It looks pretty thin, and maybe the curved shape will help...

http://www.statelinetack.com/item/myler-ss-3-dee-comfort-snaffle-wide-barrel/E013118/

[csziggy]

21. Have you tried her in a French link snaffle?

My horses tend to have a real low roof in their mouths and never liked a standard snaffle - the joint in the bit tended to gouge the roof of their mouths when any rein pressure was used. My stallion was bad about over flexing because of this. It wasn't a huge problem for Western since he was happier with a loose rein and that sensitivity made him very light mouthed. But when I started riding him English, he hated being on the bit.

We played around with different bits and found he liked a Tom Thumb dog bone bit very much like this one:
http://www.statelinetack.com/item/western-ss-copper-ring-dogbone-tom-thumb-bit/WBM16/ That was what we used for much of his Western show career

For English I ended up using a bit similar to this one: http://www.statelinetack.com/item/jp-korsteel-french-link-eggbutt-bit/SLT733154/ Once I began using that, I could get him on the bit and he stopped over flexing so much.

Something about the way Ginger is reacting to the bit reminded me of my stallion's behavior.

[riderinthestorm]

25. Yes! Great suggestion. We've tried a couple different ones but the arms seem too thick

I actually own the Korsteel bit and we've tried that...

I'm now on the hunt for a french link snaffle with thin arms. I can't find that bit in any of the standard tack catalogs so far but I know I'll find it sooner or later.

She loves that "lozenge" in the French link bits but the bits I own are too thick and she can't close her mouth around it properly. So we're close to figuring it out.

It's always a puzzle with these green ones. I know so many people discount the importance of proper bitting for horses like Ginger and would rather simply tie their mouth closed but that has other ramifications down the road.

Once you see her mouth yawwing open and the overflexing it becomes an obsession to try to help them be more comfortable...

Thanks for the input.

[csziggy]

29. Yes, a lot of the English bits seem to be really fat

And horses with smaller mouths are just uncomfortable with them. I don't have any suggestion for sources - I haven't bought any new tack for 15 years.

I should go rummage around the barn to see what bits I have left. I used to have a good size collection of odd bits that people had left or that we had tried out or that had arrived with horses we bought. But that won't happen until next winter - it's too hot right now, 90+ with heat index around 100. And the bugs are out.

Now that I've been retired a few years I find I can't tolerate the extremes I used to take for granted!

Ginger looks great, by the way - very steady for only 6 months off track.

[riderinthestorm]

33. Fellow boarding barn owners! Yup TONS of abandoned gear

I too haven't bought a bit in years!!! (Or blanket, grooming supplies, halter, lead rope etc)

Lol!

And thanks. She's about where I like to see them at this stage. She hacked a lot in her past I was told because of a muscle injury that needed re-hab sometime back there. I think it shows. She's more mature mentally.

[u4ic]

23. She's lovely! Nice rhythm and wonderful transitions

She's a good listener.

Best of luck, hope she continues to improve and stay sound!

[riderinthestorm]

27. Ikr? She's got an excellent mind. Super obedient and calm

its always a crapshoot on what they'll be like once you remove them from the crazy track life.

She's doing great!

[u4ic]

30. I used to ride 2 OTTB

Teddy, a flaming chestnut with a personality to match. Too bad there wasn't any steeplechasing in Ontario, it would have been his niche. He was super enthusiastic about jumping, but it was always a race, he found it hard to settle. He wasn't crazy like some of them are, just a ball of energy.

Moses was 17.3 at the withers, and 16.3 at the croup. Steady as a rock, a real gentleman. Couldn't run a lick, ended up in some low level hunting classes. (none of them were mine, but Teddy had so much potential...he was sold, hopefully to someone who could work with him, calm him down. He was a very good jumper)

I used to ride with someone who had yet another OTTB - a beautiful grey who was frazzled from his time at the track. Used to even whack himself into the side of the arena when he got hot, he just freaked. She wouldn't even ride him outside, he was just too volatile. Poor thing.

Do you know what her pedigree is?

[riderinthestorm]

34. Yes, it's what led me to ask DU to help re-name her, poor thing. JC name "Devils Hole"

could it be any more slutty for a redheaded mare??!!



http://www.pedigreequery.com/devils+hole

She's got a lot of great jumping bloodlines - Bold Ruler, Nearctic, Storm Cat combined with excellent stamina (Secretariat). She also has speed - the Native Dancer bits - but not too much for the soundness issues.

She's designed to be an event horse in my mind. Certainly a racetrack failure (4 starts, all bad) but all the stars are aligned for her to succeed at a second career.

[u4ic]

37. Good grief, what an awful name!

My eyes immediately went for her female family as I saw one familiar name. You'll see Flaring Top - a reine de course - in the 5th generation tail female. Her daughter Flaming Page produced Nijinksy the English Triple Crown winner, and FP's daughter Fleur produced the Minstrel, Epsom and Irish Derby winner.

It got diluted from there. A couple of stakes winners after, but nothing of note.

It's usually the female line that is more stamina oriented (used to be speed - stallion - on top of stamina - mare). Now I'm seeing more stamina from the stallion, which is good.

I have no idea what a good jumper pedigree, TB wise, is.

That's great that you've given her a home and a second career! Too many TB's being bred for the sales ring, rather than the track. in In the hopes of landing a Kentucky Derby winner, the industry is so full of hopes, dreams and $$ in the eyes with little substance. The breeders of old were very selective.

I got sick of the industry and all the breakdowns around 2003-2004, and lost interest in racing altogether (fan only, never involved with it).

[seveneyes]

32. Pardon me Ginger

[riderinthestorm]

35. .