Question about Guardians o' the Galaxy

[Orrex]

Last edited Tue May 9, 2017, 08:17 AM - Edit history (1)

Watched the first film again last night and was left wondering a few things:

1. Peter Quill, off Earth since he was a pre-teen in the late 80s, is still attuned to current American slang and pop culture
2. Even more than Star Trek, almost everyone in the galaxy is contemporary American, speaks like a contemporary American, and dresses largely like a contemporary American?
3. An uplifted raccoon can break out of a maximum security gulag in about 45 minutes?
4. The staff and security at a maximum security space prison is a bunch of incompetent doofuses? Doofi?
5. Mom Quill's mix tape thoughtfully includes only well-known songs easily recognizable to a 2014 audience?
6. Why did Mom Quill include The Pina Colada Song about deceit and double attempted infidelity on a mix tape for her preteen son?
7. A cassette tape can survive the rigors of space travel and constant play for twenty years and still sound like top-quality original master recording?
8. Earphone pads likewise last forever?
9. Ditto for Walkmans?
10. The biggest bad-ass in the galaxy looks like a cutscene from a late 90s arcade shooter?
11. So genocide is ok and forgiven if you're pretty and you do a little dance?

T'Challa has a Wakandan accent, Helmut Zemo has a Sakovian accent, but Nova Prime speaks generic American English? Does this mean that a guy in Nebraska can easily chat with the top dog of the Nova Corps but can't talk to a guy in Brazil?

In a superhero-esque movie you obviously have to accept certain conceits (the Hulk's pants don't rip, Tony Stark doesn't pulp himself every time he does his three-point landing at full speed, etc.), but when the story sets a clear and deliberate baseline reality, then divergences from that baseline are conspicuous and must be addressed.

And the issue is larger than whether or not Chris Pratt has sick pecs (spoiler alert: he does); when the Guardians show up in Avengers: Infinity War, will they import their goofy physics and linguistics into the world (generally) based upon our own reality?

[gordianot]

1. As a work of fiction with many jokes...,,,

... it does not have to adhere to the world of physics being pure escapism. The characters survive so they can crack another joke.

[Orrex]

2. That's fine within the film itself...

but the film is explicitly part of the larger MCU that doesn't play by those rules or the Guardians' cafeteria physics.

Joke-vehicle or not, the film and characters should still adhere to the established physics of the universe, and it's lazy storytelling to say "it's just escapism." Sure it's escapism, but it's not the coyote & roadrunner.

If Hawkeye picked up a tank and threw it, people would rightly say "Wait, he can't do that!" even if it were funny.

[exboyfil]

3. Address some of your questions

Last edited Tue May 9, 2017, 10:50 AM - Edit history (1)

1. FTL bleed through of media. Quill probably consumes American media. His media might have been monitored by Yandu to keep news etc out.
2. This goes back to the SF humanoid problem. Addressed by ST:TNG as an alien race guiding the evolution of a variety of different planets to get humanoids of similar features. When you have synthetics what do you expect outfits to look like? Consider tactical outfits worldwide. Earth has been fenced off for whatever reason, but the rest of the galaxy has a uniform culture to some degree (like Earth).
3. What would you expect from a racoon uplifted by Tony Stark (joke).
4. Do you expect competence from a race that requires a racoon and a tree to rescue them.
5. She is tied well into one hit wonders. That is her super power. Speaking of that - I won't view Brandy nearly the same after Volume 2.
6. Sounds good
7. Quill has a lot of technology available to him. In Volume 2 it even mentions that the tape has been put on the ship in its database form.
8. Same as 7. A really good 3D printer.
9. See 8.
10. What does Darth Vader look like. Really think about it.
11. Not sure who you refer to.

I just watched Scarface with my daughter (Pacino version). We noted how often every Latino talked English with a Spanish accent (in the case of Pacino with a very bad one). Everybody is speaking English even though they are all native Spanish speakers. There are probably Babel fish in everybody's ears in Guardians. Our Babel fish hears Nebraskan accented English. Those seeing it in China hear Mandarin. It is less painful than Pacino's Tony Montana's accent.

Most beloved science fiction is so far from what actually will be is a given. No Star Wars bar scene. No galaxy stocked full of humanoids. No FTL drive or communication.

[Orrex]

8. LOL--great answers, and in the proper spirit!

My follow up:

1. re: pop culture bleed-through: ok, but why does Pete only listen to pre-late 80s hits? He doesn't like any song released between 88 and 2014? Is it sentimentality, a devotion to his mother's specially-chosen set list?
2. Honestly I hated that ST:TNG episode (i.e., The Quest for Intelligent Design), but I (grudgingly) accept it as a possibility, at least to explain humanoid body types. But that doesn't explain the fashion choices, with the Xandarian merchant wearing a very Earth-like jacket and tie. Also, see my note at the end.
I'd even be ok with the homogenized galactic culture except that we've previously seen (at least) three other major races/cultures in the universe that aren't picture-perfect copies of early 21st century America: Asgard, Jotunheim, and the Chitauri, none of which matches current US of A. Why is the Nova Corp so beholden to current American aesthetics?
3. Ok, fair point.
4. Well, it calls the whole operation into question. If five knuckleheads can defeat the gulag in under an hour, then every other person who's ever been in that prison is an idiot. It's less a fearsome prison than a Keystone Cops skit.
5. That would indeed be a formidable super power
6. But still weird. Why not Afternoon Delight while she's at it?
7. If that were the case, then he wouldn't have bothered to retrieve the tape from the guard at the gulag
8. Same as #7: If it were a 3D printed Walkman/headphones, then he'd simply have 3-D printed a new set.
9. Same as above
10. I don't mind Thanos' appearance but rather his animation. Vader looks as real as anything else on screen with him, and the Hulk looks as real a green guy you'd see at the gym. But Thanos looks like a cartoon hastily pasted into an otherwise reasonably convincing CGI environment.
11. Gamora is known to have participated in genocide, explicitly shown to have enemies spanning the galaxy. But she does the Nova Corps a solid, so she's effectively pardoned? Well, that's kind of a big thumb in the eye to the billions dead and the millions who mourn them. It's nice that she helped stop Ronan and all, but there's a ton of people with a legitimate grievance against her, so the Nova Corps undermines its legitimacy by letting her off the hook.

I'm down with the possibility of a Babel fish (and with a fenced-off Earth), but we can't simply assume it. HGTTG spells it out in detail, while Star Trek and The Last Starfighter use essentially the same gimmick. Hell, even the utterly terrible Legends of Tomorrow series pauses to explain how their version works. It would take two seconds of screen time, so if Guardians wants us to believe that they're using a Babel fish, then they need to mention it.

You're obviously correct that sci-fi is not intended as an accurate prediction of future reality (that's futurism), so I'm fine with the Guardians universe not matching our own. But the Guardians universe doesn't currently match the MCU, and that's the problem.

[hunter]

20. #7,8,9 I have an old 'eighties cassette player and 'sixties bicycle.

Not all parts are original but I'm still fond of the machines.

I've got an even older record player that used to belong to a university library. It's got some newer parts too.

Rubber parts like idler wheels and belts, tubes, and certain kinds of capacitors don't last forever. Record player needles wear out.

The original front wheel of my bicycle was aluminum. When the wheel was about fifteen years old it fractured, an accident I was lucky enough to walk away from without too much damage to my face. I replaced both wheels with steel, but I still consider it the same bicycle.

I guess I'd be the sort who'd only replace parts as they wore out rather than replicate an entire machine.

As for the rest of science fiction, I'm fairly certain faster-than-light travel and communication is impossible in this universe. It may be that intelligent life permeates our galaxy but in forms beyond our perception.

The thing that irritates me most in movies and television is elaborate gun drama. The actual gun violence I've witnessed is like bam-bam-bam what the fuck just happened? People who carry guns for "self defense" are nuts, even cops. If gun violence was portrayed realistically in movies and television it would just look sad and stupid because it is sad and stupid. Once the guns come out everything is FUBAR.

[FSogol]

4. The Pina Colada Song (2nd worst song of all time in my book) is about attempted infidelity

which was perfectly acceptable in the heyday of 70s ethics. Note that the characters in the song don't even seem to mind.

[Orrex]

9. I predict that their marriage would fail within 6 months

Arguably it has failed already, and t hey're so desperately lonely and unhappy that they seek an anonymous hookup rather than deliberately trying to repair their marriage.

If you've gotten to the point that you're both taking out an ad for a booty call, it's time to start separating your bank accounts.

[FSogol]

10. It was the 1970s. EVERYONE's marriage failed in 6 months.

I never saw the song characters as the sharpest crayons in the box.

I'm disappointed that you didn't ask me about the worst song of all time. Here you go, The B side to Terry Jack's "Seasons in the Sun", I give you: "Put the Bone In"

[Orrex]

13. I was afraid to ask

And honestly I was bracing for Muskrat Love or She's Having My Baby

Put The Bone In is indeed awful, and I hate you for reminding me that it exists.

[FSogol]

15. LOL, My work here is done.

[Iggo]

14. Oh, dear god, no.

[DetlefK]

5. re:

1. When does Peter Quill show that he knows contemporary pop-culture???

2. Peter Quill has a translator-implant in his neck. It's shown in a prison-scene as an "Easter-Egg".

3. Rocket Racoon is good with technology.

4. Let's say, it's not the best and brightest who get tasked with watching over criminals who have already been caught.

5. Good taste.

6. Good taste.

7. Okay, I'll grant you that.

8. He can ask a random tailor or craftsman on a random planet to stitch him new earpads from foamed plastic. Takes no longer than 1 hour. A way greater problem is the rubber-isolation around the cables: It will become brittle with age. (Yes, I do own 20yo earpads.)

9. I'm not aware of components that would wear out. Except for the carbon-brushes in the electromotor, but even they can be replaced by a skilled repairman, especially with access to space-technology. (Silicon-based electronics have a lifetime of 10-20 years max, depending on how you store them andsoforth.)

10. Good taste.

11. What genocide???

12. As I said: Translator-implants.

[FSogol]

6. They have FTL spaceships, but you all worry about fixing a Walkman, cassette tape, or headphones?

Heck, they can probably scan them and print them.

[DetlefK]

7. Here's a challenge: Custom-make a spare-part for a car. From scratch.

You can use a 3D-printer...
You can cast it, smith it, stamp it, grind it, weld it, solder it...
How difficult can it possibly be to craft something that you have never made before and that has to fit perfectly?

[FSogol]

12. Just last weekend, I replaced a piece of silicon hose that I clamped onto broken air hose on my

Jeep until the part arrived.

In those galaxy spanning sci-fi civilizations (like Guardians or Star Wars), there has to be a system of patching/fabricating a variety of tech together. Are you really going to wait for a part to arrive from Alpha Centari? No way, you'd have to be able to quickly fabricate many different items otherwise you'd end up stuck or dead somewhere.

[Orrex]

11. Nice!

1. His use of language and idioms. Stranger Things included some clear anachronisms but was mostly faithful to its time frame. If Quill is an Earth kid who's lived 30 years in space, he'd be more invested in his host culture than in the Earth that he hasn't seen in decades. Or at least his memory of Earth would be very skewed.

2. Really? Didn't see that, and it's not on the Wiki page. All they had to do was take 2 seconds to mention it on-screen & the problem is solved.

3. Sure, and I get that Marvel is riffing on the "raccoons are clever" shtick, but I don't buy that he's more clever than everyone who's ever been in the prison.

4. Right, but that makes the whole enterprise look stupid. If Quill & Company can bust out in minutes and Ronan & Friends can destroy the place in seconds, then everyone who's ever served time in that prison is dumb enough to be a Republican president.

5. Sorry, don't buy it.

6. Definitely don't buy it. Terrible song.

7. LOL

8. Definitely right about making new pads. Also a good point about the rubber. IIRC I didn't have a single pair of Walkman-grade headphones that lasted more than about three months during the 80s or 90s.

9. That's a fair argument, though it runs into tricky territory re: the Ship of Theseus. How much of the device can the sentimental Quill replace before it's not the device anymore?

10. I don't mind his appearance but rather the way he's animated into the scene. The MCU is so careful with Hulk, for instance, (and even Rocket) that anything less convincing in a CGI character is a real problem.

11. Gamora is stated outright to have participated in genocide, and I don't believe that the accusation is denied anywhere onscreen.

12. Ok, but it's poor storytelling to hang a major plot issue on a deleted scene that way. Maybe Thanos looks like a cartoon because a deleted scene reveals that he comes from The Cartoon Universe?

[Iggo]

16. Regarding only Number 11.

I watched the movie over the weekend and I think I saw the same thing you did.

She did it.

She's a genocider.

Everybody seems to agree.

She never denies it.

In fact, if they didn't feel for some odd reason that they had to walk her over to a different part of the prison to kill her, she would've been dead that first night.

I think she gets a Nova Prime pass at the end of the movie because she saved a billion people instead of killing a billion people.

But there's still billions of people out in that galaxy that have a righteous beef against her, and I don't see her getting a billion more passes.

[Orrex]

17. Maybe that'll be in the second sequel?

Thanks for the chat. I love geeking out about stuff like this!

[Bucky]

18. I don't they ever said he'd never been back to Earth.

Given his quality of life, why would he go back and stay on Earth? His mom is dead, his dad is in outer space, and his grandfather is the villain on Scandal Season One.

[Orrex]

19. They never said that he didn't have lunch with Obediah Stane, either

That doesn't mean we should assume that he did, though.

If any element of the plot depends on his return to Earth (however brief), then they need to tell us that he returned to Earth. Otherwise it's a weak retcon to justify an inconsistency.