Have you ever fallen out of love with an artist for moral reasons?

[retrowire]

I was inspired to make this because of our current president. No matter what bullshit he does, many of his followers will make excuses for it. But there are a few that decided that morally, he was repugnant and so they did turn their backs on him.

So let me give a few examples of my own...

--Love the Smashing Pumpkins. But Billy Corgan is a bit of a right winger conspiracy theorist. Plus, he was a prick to Courtney Love in the past. It's hard for me to kick the pumpkins though, because their music really isn't very representative of right wing thought processes and can be very sweet. I tend to think Billy has a good heart, but his mind is in the wrong place.

--In high school, one of my favorite bands was lostprophets but in 2012, long after I stopped loving them as much, I learned the lead singer Ian Watkins was now a convicted pedophile and a particularly heinous one at that. He lured underage fans and even their mothers with his fame. In court prosecutions, he didn't even show much remorse. He had the ego that made him feel entitled to it. Needless to say, I can't listen to a lostprophets song ever again. It was the first album collection I ever threw in the trash.

--Rob Schneider was someone I thought was funny. Then I learned he was a highly insensitive moron. Looking at him now just disgusts me.

So are there any heroes, celebrities or artists that you felt you had to morally reject at any point?

[The Blue Flower]

1. Woody Allen

Also Charlton Heston.

[retrowire]

3. Woody Allen for the niece thing?

What did Charlton Heston do?

[Skittles]

5. Charlton Heston turned into a gun humping asshole

[retrowire]

7. Oh yeaaaah

He basically became the face of the NRA for some time right?

[Generic Brad]

22. Yes, but there is a bright side to his death

We can now pry his gun from his cold, dead hands! Free gun!

[WhiteTara]

37. It was his adopted daughter

[retrowire]

38. Oh yeahhh

My wife corrected me afterwards.

Weird.

[Dawson Leery]

2. I will NEVER give Country Music respect.

Especially after all that is happening. Most of them backed this racist shitbag but will not admit it.

Pity Loretta did not pass last week.

As a matter of fact, the "cultural" right can go fuck off with the Rebels, Nazis, Jihadis and every other shit that wants to
destroy the free world.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. I won't give country music respect because it sucks as music.

I can't even get as far as thinking about its perpetrators' politics or morals.

[Dawson Leery]

10. LOL!

[japple]

4. Yes. When Elvis Costello called Ray Charles "a blind, ignornant n*****r."

He has apologized profusely and said he was drunk, but that doesn't excuse what he said. Bonnie Bramlett backhanded Costello and I hope that I would have done the same in her place. Bonnie gained a star in her crown that day. I am proud to say that I had several nice encounters with her over the years, though I'm sure she would never remember me. She is a very talented woman.

[retrowire]

6. Yikes. I knew I'd learn some shit by making this thread.

Good thing I'm not terribly fond of Costello while I am fond of Ray...

[Dawson Leery]

8. No excuse for that kind of behavior.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

12. I'm ambivalent about Richard Wagner.

Last edited Tue May 9, 2017, 09:18 PM - Edit history (1)

Some of his music is magnificent (especially Parsifal), but he was a raving anti-Semite. On the other hand, in Germany in the nineteenth century this was not at all unusual, so one could, I suppose, argue that he was just a man of his time. Although they are mostly based on Teutonic myths, the plots of his operas do not contain anti-Semitic material as far as I can tell. Since Wagner is dead, and has been for quite awhile, he's not collecting royalties, so one can buy recordings of his operas and other music without benefiting him at all. Should that make a difference? Can I like the music of a person who is now dead but who held reprehensible ideas? If he wasn't dead could I still like his music?

[Coventina]

25. Yeah, I know what you mean about Wagner. It doesn't help that the Nazis appropriated his music.

I have the same problem with John Philip Sousa.

Every time I hear his works, I can't help but think about how he was a racist piece of shit who excluded African-Americans from ASCAP, therefore not giving them intellectual property rights. Many AA composers died in poverty because of him.

[Aristus]

36. The truth about Wagner is that he was......complex.

He was an anti-Semite, and that was inexcusable, no matter how many of his contemporaries thought the same.

At the same time, most of his other views were highly progressive, even liberal, for their time. He was an ardent supporter of the left-wing revolutions in Europe in 1848, and was so vocal about them that he lost several appointments, and had to go into hiding in other countries.

His views toward women, on the operatic stage and off, were very forward-looking. Every one of his female characters, with the possible exception of Elsa in Lohengrin is smarter than all of his male characters. They are far more rational, practical, and exhibit better qualities of leadership than the male characters in leadership roles.

Wagner's opera Siegfried was a favorite of Hitler and the Nazis, because it is a celebration of the Northern European dynamic 'man of nature'; Siegfried, the fearless, heroic dragon slayer. However, Siegfried exhibits all of these traits without putting down or suppressing anyone whom one might call inferior, or use his demigod-like superiority to oppress anyone. He treats the dwarf, Mime, abominably, but it's worth pointing out that Mime cares nothing for Siegfried, and is only using him to get his greedy hands on the eponymous Ring of power the dragon guards in his hoard.

Still a huge Wagner fan, and probably always will be...

[Ron Obvious]

13. No, never

I've never been interested in their private lives and have always been able to separate the art from the artist.

I'm not only proud of that, I'm smug about it.

[retrowire]

16. Smug eh?

What if, you were a fan of this really impressive TV celebrity, and then one day, he became president and was a terrible person?

[Ron Obvious]

23. That situation sounds much too far-fetched to be credible.

[First Speaker]

14. I well remember buying some lovely picture postcards of Vienna from this nice young man...

...he had ambitions of becoming an architect. I sort of lost track of him, but I think he went into politics, and it didn't end up too well for him. Or so I heard. Too bad; he should have stayed an artist...but his politics weren't really very admirable...

[NightWatcher]

15. Tom Waits refused to rewind his Blockbuster tapes and became dead to me.

[underpants]

27. LMFAO literally

Well, I mean, the piano HAD been drinking.

[cemaphonic]

46. He is also a terrible fishing companion.

Total buzzkill.

[Orrex]

50. You don't want to know where he put the fish, that's for sure.

[Comatose Sphagetti]

17. Used to be a big Nugent fan back in my teenage days.

Absolutely loathe the guy now. Pisses me off so bad I can't see straight.

[retrowire]

18. It's ok. I used to think Kid Rock was neat. lmao

Time makes fools of us all!

[True Dough]

40. I was never a big fan of Kid Rock

and I definitely disagree with his politics. I'm also an atheist, so there's no reason for me to feel "in tune" with the lyrics of this song, but I cannot deny that I liked it then and I still like it now...

[neeksgeek]

32. Used to own a copy of Great Gonzos...

I admit it, I liked Ted Nugent. hangs head in shame...


We're talking circa 1985, it went away with all my other records when I switched to CDs (I have vinyl again, but no Nugent).

If I had it now, it'd be a great excuse to take up target shooting.

[populistdriven]

35. Poopy Pants? 💩

http://gawker.com/5983634/patriotic-american-ted-nugent-shit-his-pants-to-avoid-the-draft

[UTUSN]

19. Some mentioned above: Woody ALLEN, Richard WAGNER, HESTON, but then:

* Mel GIBSON. I'm not a big movie (or anything) follower, just had a positive image of him from the bits of detective/buddy films, then Braveheart. Saw his Hamlet and The Patriot, but then started wondering with The Passion of the Christ and more stories about his Catholic/fundie/fanaticism. Then came Apocalypto, which I think is a magnificent piece, but along with his meltdown at the same time, and I've asked (even here): How can a despicable specimen create magnificent works of art?

* I suppose this is totally off the wall. I have never followed t.v. series while they were active on the air, only saw some in binge sessions during retirement on the treadmill (back when I *did* treadmill) - Drew CAREY, Scrubs, Golden Girls, Will/Grace, etc. And one was Sex and the City. I was entertained for several months, all the exploits and self-analysis and admission of failings. But it all came crashing down with a couple of episodes where Carrie was faced with the wife of her obsession/dude. I mean, they were all fooling around throughout the bingeing, but when she had had her sleepover in the married people's apartment and was caught by the wife and she cynically ran away and whatever whatever - it (finally) dawned on me that these characters were just totally amoral and cynical.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

41. Mel Gibson is nuttier than squirrel shit, but I really like some of his movies,

especially the earlier ones like Gallipoli and The Year of Living Dangerously. He's a talented actor even though he's pretty much of a dick as a human being.

[brush]

53. Something similar: I haven't watched "Seinfeld" since Michael Richards' racist rant.

And I used to watch even the re-runs all the time.

I'm a big fan of Julia Louis-Dreyfus, who turned out to be the most successful of all of them. I watch her other shows.

[Orrex]

57. Totally with you on Michael Richards

I can't see Kramer without recalling his tirade.

[cemaphonic]

20. Generally not.

A lot of artists have unpleasant sides of their personalities or biographies, and I don't think anyone gets through life without saying or doing something awful that they regret. But good art has a way of transcending and outlasting its creator. Beethoven had a reputation as a colossal asshole to just about everyone, but they're gone, and his music lives on. I don't have much respect for Roman Polanski or Cat Stevens, but our culture would be poorer without their art.

It does seem to intensify my feelings toward artists that I already dislike though.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

42. A lot of great artists were assholes, criminals or reprobates in some way.

Picasso, for example, had affairs with a number of women, including with with a 17-year old who eventually committed suicide when he wouldn't marry her (he was already married). The late-16th-century composer Carlo Gesualdo murdered his wife and her lover upon catching them in flagrante delicto. The great painter Caravaggio killed a guy in a bar brawl by stabbing him in the groin. Handel threatened to throw one of his star singers out a window. It doesn't detract from their art, but maybe we wouldn't have wanted to hang out from these guys.

[hunter]

21. Orson Scott Card, when he went full fundy anti-gay Mormon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_Scott_Card

Long ago we had common interests in Science Fiction and the Atari 800.

He struck me then as a bit of a libertarian (a common affliction of many science fiction authors) and a bit of an ass, but he wasn't entirely toxic, which is saying something considering my Wild West family's traditional antipathy towards Mormons.

Both Mormons and Catholics go very rotten when they make that hard turn to the right and regress.

Card would probably be a lot like Mel Gibson if he drank, but as a non-drinking Mormon he's not any less offensive.

[OregonBlue]

30. Same here. Can no longer even consider buying one of his books and got rid of the ones I had.

It amazes me how many Science Fiction writers are Libertarian, right-wing a-holes. Love Modesitt, have read everything he has written. Then I find out he used to be in politics, worked in government for the GOP. He's still right-wing.

[populistdriven]

33. That one got me too. Also KISS, Elton John, Clint Eastwood

Yes to all previously mentioned and especially Orson Scott Card

Elton - working for Rush Limbaugh

I really F^@KING HATE Gene Simmons (Greed Incarnate) of KISS but used to think their music was OK. I never bought or even downloaded any of his material. Some of his quotes:

"The music industry was asleep at the wheel and didn't have the balls to sue every fresh-faced, freckle-faced college kid who downloaded material,"

"Make sure there are no incursions. Be litigious. Sue everybody. Take their homes, their cars. Don't let anybody cross that line."

"Everything from KISS condoms to KISS caskets. We'll get you coming and we'll get you going. We literally have everything from KISS Hi-Def television sets that are about to come on the market to KISS Motorcycles," he said, before adding, "Well, it's Planet KISS. Oh, I've already trademarked that, I forgot that."

"We will sue their pants off. First, they will be punished. Second, they might find their little butts in jail, right next to someone who’s been there for years and is looking for a new girl friend. We will soon be printing their names and pictures. We will find you. You cannot hide."

[retrowire]

39. Elton John worked for rush.?? What? Nt

[cemaphonic]

47. Dan Simmons went off into paranoid rightwinger land after 9/11 too

[SwissTony]

59. It was "Flashback" that did it, wasn't it?

It certainly did it for me. I couldn't believe it was a DS book. Every second page he'd launch into a right-wing tirade which was awful to read and side-tracked the story. How did the publishers allow that book without extreme editing?

I still have a great fondness for his books that were published before that heap of garbage, but haven't read any of his stuff since.

[kwassa]

24. Bill Cosby

I loved his records as a kid. Memorized them.

His tv show. My whole family would sit and watch it together.

I can't stand anything to do with him now.

[underpants]

26. I memorized them too

and I feel the same way

[brush]

55. Yep. He's gonna die in jail.

[lunatica]

61. Yeah. Me too

I remember his first record. I made the entire family sit and listen to it and we laughed so hard we were gasping for air and holding our sides.

Now he just creeps me out.

[3catwoman3]

62. The very first episode of the...

...Cosby Show series was one of the funniest things I ever saw. I had the set of the whole series before the revelation of his depravity.

I threw the whole thing in the trash.

[lunasun]

28. Many times yes

[underpants]

29. I'm with you on Corgan

When I found out he's a regular guest on Alex Jones that was too much.

[Miles Archer]

31. On some levels, Neil Young.

On one hand, he's a musical genius, a founding member of FarmAid, politically active in many areas.

On the other hand, if you read his authorized bio, Shakey, you find out he's two (or more) people.

I put "authorized" in bold and underlined it because the book isn't "fake news," tabloid fodder, gossip, innuendo. It's an authorized biography.

Author Jimmy McDonough was given full access to Young's "inner circle.: His private live is just that...private...and the people who know him best are fiercely protective of his image. Guys like Crazy Horse guitarist Frank Sampedro would just as soon punch you in the mouth as say anything negative about Neil. But he interviewed scores of insiders, wrote the first draft, sent it to Neil, and...Neil abruptly cut off all access.

That's why the book flows beautifully and then stops on a dime. Because Neil stopped it on a dime.

Neil has a problem with relationships...primarily women, but relationships in general. The accounting of his time with the late Nicolette Larson amounts to him kicking her to the curb when he was no longer amused. He made an album with Stephen Stills and went out on tour to promote it. A few dates in, Stills found a note from Neil, who had left unannounced. "Stephen, funny how things that start spontaneously sometimes end that way. Eat a peach, Neil." So Stills had to honor the contract and finish those dates himself. He doesn't handle relationships like an adult. At the slightest sign of discomfort, he disconnects, and bolts for the door.

It's a matter of whether you need to admire an artist in order to enjoy their work.

He also has a high level of contempt for his audiences. That's all in the book. Ringo Starr once said that when you go to a Bob Dylan concert, you get the Bob that he's in the mood to show you that night. Young is the same way. I don't think artists should be forced into a life of being a "greatest hits machine." But take Neil's "Greendale" tour as an example. It's the fans' own fault if they expected a night of "Cinnamon Girl" and "Down By The River" and "Heart of Gold" and the rest. He played the Greendale album. That was it. There was the whole Geffen records debacle...a 25 minute album of Neil crooning half-baked rockabilly? It was intended as a raised middle finger to his record label, who wanted "music that sounded like Neil Young," and it was something that amused him greatly, and screw the audience if they don't get the joke.

Then there were the "Tonight's The Night" shows, where Neil's voice was shot from too much tequila, too many drugs, too much of everything. People paid for tickets and in return they were entertained by a drunk.

Strictly speaking in terms of music, Frank Zappa was the same way. He never thought of commerce, he followed the muse, and whoever didn't get it, well...it was their problem, not his.

Neil appears to be a bit of a bastard. That's what comes through after reading "Shakey."

[vi5]

52. I had feared worse when I saw the title of this post...

..yeah, he sounds like an erratic, temperamental artist but I was expecting some worse stuff.

I think most artists are self-centered bastards but some try harder and are more successful at hiding it.

Honestly I thought this was going to be about his flirtation with Reagan worship and Republicanism in the 80's. Thankfully he's made up for that with other political activism so I no longer hold it against him.

[neeksgeek]

34. Edward Weston

Absolutely incredible photographer. Love his work. He was largely responsible for my getting serious about photography.

Then I read his Daybooks. Also wonderful, if you're looking for a window on the thoughts of an artist.

But apparently he slept with most of his models. I can't admire his infidelity.

[LeftInTX]

43. They had Ricky Skaggs on NPR a few weeks ago

He played this beautiful violin music. It was a dark minor blue grass type. It was slow. It just captivated me. I was amazed at his talent. Then, they asked him some personal questions. He said was a Christian, which I have no problem with. Then he started going on about Israel and Trump stuff. He said he was a strong supporter of Trump.

Huge disconnect. I was a fan for 5 minutes.

[cemaphonic]

49. That's a shame - he's an incredible musician.

I don't much like his commercial country stuff he was doing in the 90s, but his bluegrass work is great, especially the albums he did with J. D. Crowe and Tony Rce in the 70s-80s

Skaggs & Rice - Bury Me Beneath the Willow:

A lot of the younger talent in Nashville these days is pretty liberal, but much of the old guard is just from a different time and place. I was pleased to see Ralph Stanley come out for Obama in 2008

[lastlib]

44. Used to really dig Cat Stevens.....

It didn't bother me that he converted to Islam, big yawn, really. But when he refused to condemn, and actually said he APPROVED the fatwa against Salman Rushdie for The Satanic Verses, that did it for me. I had several of his records, and I took them out, poured lighter fluid on them and burned them.

Still don't listen to the SOB, and have even contacted radio stations and urged them to stop playing his music for that reason.

[cemaphonic]

45. And he has never genuinely apologized either.

He's offered a couple half-assed non-apologies, and then claims he was misrepresented at the time (even though his exact words are easily searchable). And he always seems aggrieved when people bring the issue up. Fuck that guy.

As I said upthread though, there's too much great art made by fairly terrible people for me to throw out, so I still like some of his songs, although I've never been much of a fan.

[Initech]

48. I used to like the band Five Finger Death Punch.

But then I found out their lead singer and guitarist were both hardcore Trump supporters. And they've attacked liberals in tweets and in interviews. I was done with them after that.

I also can't stand Megadeth. Dave Mustaine is a hardcore right wing conspiracy theorist and treats his fans like dirt.

[Soxfan58]

51. Jackson Browne

For domestic abuse of Daryl Hanna

[Orrex]

56. Is that true?

I had heard about that years ago, but I also heard that that the claims were false.

Browne's wikipedia page makes no mention of the matter, and Googling it is inconclusive.

[stillsoleft]

54. Difficult for me to figure out Jon Voight

How could someone who had the depth and sensitivity to give a performance like he did in Coming Home turn out to be such a right wing nut job

I feel like some earlier trauma may have triggered some repressed shame that's driven him backwards.

Also, Midnight Cowboy, Conrack? These were seriously liberal socially conscious films.

What happened?

[Iggo]

60. What happened? Black President happened.

All kind of them fuckers went nuts when that happened.

[stillsoleft]

63. Yeah but....

Conrack.

And Voight was nuts bf Obama

[Fix The Stupid]

58. Steve Miller Band...

liked some of their tunes...then heard in the background on some tv show that they are/were scientologists...

Now I have to change the station when I hear one of their tunes...